I don't know why so many Christians and Muslims seem to detest Yoruba religion to the extent that they tagged Orisa Esu as Satan. So pls give Your reasons why u think Aborisa is Evil and why the message of Ifa is different from the righteous message of the Quran and Bibe. And some should also give reasons why u think is a righteous religion. this would probably help us understand things about the religion better

Because white and arab men told them their ancestors were evil and the foolish fools believed them.

Alfa Seltzer: Because white and arab men told them their ancestors were evil and the foolish fools believed them.

...and because we look to them for acceptance into humanity, a need for them to acknowledge what we should believe and more because we do not act quick enough as people capable of self-reinvention.

Alfa Seltzer: Because white and arab men told them their ancestors were evil and the foolish fools believed them.

It really wasn't that simple.

Conversion was coercive not voluntary. The christian missionaries came and insisted one had to renounce their traditional religion and become christian to be admitted into their schools. In the new colonial dispensation, gaining a 'western' education was the ticket to success, so many were compelled to ditch their faiths to access the new possibilities. In Islam up north, it was straight up forced conversion at the point of a sword via Jihad.

So none of this was ever voluntary. Africans were FORCED by their enemies to adopt christianity and islam.

Rossikk:

It really wasn't that simple.

Conversion was coercive not voluntary. The christian missionaries came and insisted one had to renounce their traditional religion and become christian to be admitted into their schools. In the new colonial dispensation, gaining a 'western' education was the ticket to success, so many were compelled to ditch their faiths to access the new possibilities. In Islam up north, it was straight up forced conversion at the point of a sword via Jihad.

So none of this was ever voluntary. Africans were FORCED to adopt christianity and islam.

So who is forcing them today?

Alfa Seltzer:

So who is forcing them today?

You don't seem to understand the power of religion.

Following

Alfa Seltzer:

So who is forcing them today?

people have known better, evil is somewhere involved in what we call traditional religion, as bloodletting is part of the ritual, its not that this was exactly what the ancestors left the forebears with, but it is what they left for us.

If you justify what they often do, you are only implying that we can never change. Change is the best we can have, but not in the name of condemning our culture, but sifting the vitals out of the rubble that is coming from medieval period to us.

Thanks for the contribution so far but No one is really going in line with this topic. I guess those that have much knowledge of the religion haven't seen this thread.

Alfa Seltzer: Because white and arab men told them their ancestors were evil and the foolish fools believed them.

so Islam supports paganism ? interesting, thanks for making us see that.

Rossikk:

It really wasn't that simple.

Conversion was coercive not voluntary. The christian missionaries came and insisted one had to renounce their traditional religion and become christian to be admitted into their schools. In the new colonial dispensation, gaining a 'western' education was the ticket to success, so many were compelled to ditch their faiths to access the new possibilities. In Islam up north, it was straight up forced conversion at the point of a sword via Jihad.

So none of this was ever voluntary. Africans were FORCED by their enemies to adopt christianity and islam.

source?

because they are just gods that can't talk and have been used to do evil against innocent people.

macof: I don't know why so many Christians and Muslims seem to detest Yoruba religion to the extent that they tagged Orisa Esu as Satan. So pls give Your reasons why u think Aborisa is Evil and why the message of Ifa is different from the righteous message of the Quran and Bibe. And some should also give reasons why u think is a righteous religion. this would probably help us understand things about the religion better

Hi mac,

I am a Christian and I don't particularly consider the Yoruba traditional religion as being necessarily evil. I believe that there are persons who practice the religion in good fate and try as much as possible to live right in line with the dictates of good conscience.

'Good' and 'Evil' are more or less products of our intentions and I believe firmly that it is quite wrong to associate these to a people on the basis of their religious or non-religious affiliations. I am of the opinion that good or evil should be attributed to the individual instead, and should be done on a case by case basis.

I don't know why some 'religious' folks equate Esu with the devil but what I do know is that Esu is associated with death and for this reason he is one deity that a lot of persons (including 'traditionalists') love to hate. Similarly, some Christians believe that Satan is the harbinger of death and maybe this is the reason why some conveniently equate Esu with Satan.

I love this tread so much, I'm a typical Yoruba who love everything about my culture. I was brought up in a christian home though my grandparent were paganism before they converted to christianity...I mixed both paganism and christianity up when I was small but since God Almighty has revealled Himself to me....I realise that paganism is a path to hell. Though like ifa and some other gods are good or taught about how to live a peaceful life but Devil(Esu) is very wise in His own way of dealing with human being.


Shalom!

naijaboyof4life: because they are just gods that can't talk and have been used to do evil against innocent people.

Realistically speaking no gods or spiritual being can talk directly except through dreams/visions, divination or prayers

macof:
Realistically speaking no gods or spiritual being can talk directly except through dreams/visions, divination or prayers

Almighty God can speak and you will hear him only if you haven't walked in His way.


Shalom!

Emusan:

Almighty God can speak and you will hear him only if you haven't walked in His way.


Shalom!

So wat is his voice like? Does he talk slow or fast?

naijaboyof4life: because they are just gods that can't talk and have been used to do evil against innocent people.

yaweh and allah cant talk either!. dont get me started about the evil perpetrated by both religions.

macof:

So wat is his voice like? Does he talk slow or fast?

he talks quiet. haha.

striktlymi:

Hi mac,

I am a Christian and I don't particularly consider the Yoruba traditional religion as being necessarily evil. I believe that there are persons who practice the religion in good fate and try as much as possible to live right in line with the dictates of good conscience.

'Good' and 'Evil' are more or less products of our intentions and I believe firmly that it is quite wrong to associate these to a people on the basis of their religious or non-religious affiliations. I am of the opinion that good or evil should be attributed to the individual instead, and should be done on a case by case basis.

I don't know why some 'religious' folks equate Esu with the devil but what I do know is that Esu is associated with death and for this reason he is one deity that a lot of persons (including 'traditionalists') love to hate. Similarly, some Christians believe that Satan is the harbinger of death and maybe this is the reason why some conveniently equate Esu with Satan.

The things I know about Esu
1. He is a trickster and troublemaker
2. He is a messenger between the spirit world and earth(works for both men and the gods)
3. He is present when humans choose their destiny
4. He tests humans faithfulness to Olodumare/God(causes temptations)
5. He checks if/how much humans remember about their destiny on earth.
6. He has great influence over death, sickness and curse
7. He is a gate keeper and time keeper and owns all records of life on earth
8. He keeps balance between good and evil

things I know about satan
1. He is a thief, killer and destroyer
2. He attempts to make humans drift away from Jehovah/God(causing temptations)
3. He lives in hell after his banishment from heaven
4. He had the highest rank among angels in heaven
5. He gives riches and some sort of good things that last only for a while after claiming the soul
6. He is greedy and opposes God
7. He has his minions called demons
8. He is the bringer and father of all evil

According to my research Esu and satan do have similarities especially the temptation part but Esu is not evil as he only tempts/test in order to report back to God for blessing of the individual(if passed the test), But satan is pure evil as every thing unholy is attributed to him, and tempts in order to cause a drift between man and God

macof:

So wat is his voice like? Does he talk slow or fast?

he talks like the tree tribe of Vietnam but he speaks swahili thats why xtians speak in tongue

striktlymi:

Hi mac,

I am a Christian and I don't particularly consider the Yoruba traditional religion as being necessarily evil. I believe that there are persons who practice the religion in good fate and try as much as possible to live right in line with the dictates of good conscience.

'Good' and 'Evil' are more or less products of our intentions and I believe firmly that it is quite wrong to associate these to a people on the basis of their religious or non-religious affiliations. I am of the opinion that good or evil should be attributed to the individual instead, and should be done on a case by case basis.

I don't know why some 'religious' folks equate Esu with the devil but what I do know is that Esu is associated with death and for this reason he is one deity that a lot of persons (including 'traditionalists') love to hate. Similarly, some Christians believe that Satan is the harbinger of death and maybe this is the reason why some conveniently equate Esu with Satan.

Ajayi Crowther is a b.astard

macof:

The things I know about Esu
1. He is a trickster and troublemaker
2. He is a messenger between the spirit world and earth(works for both men and the gods)
3. He is present when humans choose their destiny
4. He tests humans faithfulness to Olodumare/God(causes temptations)
5. He checks if/how much humans remember about their destiny on earth.
6. He has great influence over death, sickness and curse
7. He is a gate keeper and time keeper and owns all records of life on earth
8. He keeps balance between good and evil

things I know about satan
1. He is a thief, killer and destroyer
2. He attempts to make humans drift away from Jehovah/God(causing temptations)
3. He lives in hell after his banishment from heaven
4. He had the highest rank among angels in heaven
5. He gives riches and some sort of good things that last only for a while after claiming the soul
6. He is greedy and opposes God
7. He has his minions called demons
8. He is the bringer and father of all evil

According to my research Esu and satan do have similarities especially the temptation part but Esu is not evil as he only tempts/test in order to report back to God for blessing of the individual(if passed the test), But satan is pure evil as every thing unholy is attributed to him, and tempts in order to cause a drift between man and God

Additional fact/truth about Esu/Legba - He exists. Satan does not.

macof:

things I know about satan
3. He lives in hell after his banishment from heaven
5. He gives riches and some sort of good things that last only for a while after claiming the soul

I don't understand these 2 statements; he lives in hell the eternal fire torture chamber of all-loving yahweh, but still has the time and opportunity to "give riches and some sort of good things" dude abeg try n get all these ur mythological jewish folklore/fairy tale straightened to at least make some sense

But satan is pure evil as every thing unholy is attributed to him

um, in the story book called the bible that all known records of christian satan is kept; lord yahweh clearly distinguishes himself as the pure epitome of evil



Hmm...christian logic really is weird and twisted, if not outright re.tarded

macof:

The things I know about Esu
1. He is a trickster and troublemaker
2. He is a messenger between the spirit world and earth(works for both men and the gods)
3. He is present when humans choose their destiny
4. He tests humans faithfulness to Olodumare/God(causes temptations)
5. He checks if/how much humans remember about their destiny on earth.
6. He has great influence over death, sickness and curse
7. He is a gate keeper and time keeper and owns all records of life on earth
8. He keeps balance between good and evil

things I know about satan
1. He is a thief, killer and destroyer
2. He attempts to make humans drift away from Jehovah/God(causing temptations)
3. He lives in hell after his banishment from heaven
4. He had the highest rank among angels in heaven
5. He gives riches and some sort of good things that last only for a while after claiming the soul
6. He is greedy and opposes God
7. He has his minions called demons
8. He is the bringer and father of all evil

According to my research Esu and satan do have similarities especially the temptation part but Esu is not evil as he only tempts/test in order to report back to God for blessing of the individual(if passed the test), But satan is pure evil as every thing unholy is attributed to him, and tempts in order to cause a drift between man and God

things u know indeed when u dont even know yourself..how can u know another person/things when u dont even know urself completely

MamiWata:

Additional fact/truth about Esu/Legba - He exists. Satan does not.

Eshu represents the beginning and end of life, and the opening and closing of paths in life. In the dispora, Eshu is know as saint michael....the arc angel which JW call Jesus.

Thats part of stuff stolen from West Africa.

FOLYKAZE:

Eshu represents the beginning and end of life, and the opening and closing of paths in life. In the dispora, Eshu is know as saint michael....the arc angel which JW call Jesus.

Thats part of stuff stolen from West Africa.

[img]http://1.bp..com/-0mm5S4CBcq0/Tn-teYL4pVI/AAAAAAAAAJo/zOwJkvBI87k/s1600/Antoine-Dodson-Dumb1.gif[/img]

macof:

The things I know about Esu
1. He is a trickster and troublemaker
2. He is a messenger between the spirit world and earth(works for both men and the gods)
3. He is present when humans choose their destiny
4. He tests humans faithfulness to Olodumare/God(causes temptations)
5. He checks if/how much humans remember about their destiny on earth.
6. He has great influence over death, sickness and curse
7. He is a gate keeper and time keeper and owns all records of life on earth
8. He keeps balance between good and evil

things I know about satan
1. He is a thief, killer and destroyer
2. He attempts to make humans drift away from Jehovah/God(causing temptations)
3. He lives in hell after his banishment from heaven
4. He had the highest rank among angels in heaven
5. He gives riches and some sort of good things that last only for a while after claiming the soul
6. He is greedy and opposes God
7. He has his minions called demons
8. He is the bringer and father of all evil

According to my research Esu and satan do have similarities especially the temptation part but Esu is not evil as he only tempts/test in order to report back to God for blessing of the individual(if passed the test), But satan is pure evil as every thing unholy is attributed to him, and tempts in order to cause a drift between man and God

Yea, I quite agree that there is a marked difference between Esu and Satan.

striktlymi:

Yea, I quite agree that there is a marked difference between Esu and Satan.

Yes, the Swedes have no idea who Esu is.

FOLYKAZE:



Ajayi Crowther is a b.astard

Lol. Ajayi Crowther was just a confusionist bent on painting the Yoruba religion black but still he contributed a lot to Yoruba development

Mudley313:
I don't understand these 2 statements; he lives in hell the eternal fire torture chamber of all-loving yahweh, but still has the time and opportunity to "give riches and some sort of good things" dude abeg try n get all these ur mythological jewish folklore/fairy tale straightened to at least make some sense


um, in the story book called the bible that all known records of christian satan is kept; lord yahweh clearly distinguishes himself as the pure epitome of evil



Hmm...christian logic really is weird and twisted, if not outright re.tarded

Am nt Jewish, but I read the Bible and hear wat people say about satan(especially in churches) so if u don't agree wit my comment u should post wat u think

beejaay:

things u know indeed when u dont even know yourself..how can u know another person/things when u dont even know urself completely

Wats this one saying?! So it's u dat knows me abi?