This is an arguement between our brothers in islam in my area. It sounds weird and absurd to me when someone said fixed deposit account in modern day banking is haram in islam due to the interest that climbs it on regular intervals. I decided to seek more knowledge from Muslim brethen on NL, is it haram or halal for a muslim to open a "fixed deposit account?
NOTE: Give your opinion with vivd evidence from the Holy Qur'an and Hadith of the Holy Prophet (SAW)

crownprince102:
This is an arguement between our brothers in islam in my area. It sounds weird and absurd to me when someone said fixed deposit account in modern day banking is haram in islam due to the interest that climbs it on regular intervals. I decided to seek more knowledge from Muslim brethen on NL, is it haram or halal for a muslim to open a "fixed deposit account?
NOTE: Give your opinion with vivd evidence from the Holy Qur'an and Hadith of the Holy Prophet (SAW)

To be clear, 3 questions please...

1. Do you have doubt that interest is accumulated on your principal, placed in a Fixed deposit accounts? or..
2. Do you want evidence that interest is haram in Islam? or..
3. Do you believe that there are different types of interest, some of which are haram, and some of which (eg modern bank FDA) are halal?

The response will help us to save time.

Abuamam:


To be clear, 3 questions please...

1. Do you have doubt that interest is accumulated on your principal, placed in a Fixed deposit accounts? or..
2. Do you want evidence that interest is haram in Islam? or..
3. Do you believe that there are different types of interest, some of which are haram, and some of which (eg modern bank FDA) are halal?

The response will help us to save time.

Can you answer each question with full details

Mods, please move this to the right section. There you'd find tons of Muslims who'd be of great help.

Mynd44
Obinoscopy

crownprince102:
This is an arguement between our brothers in islam in my area. It sounds weird and absurd to me when someone said fixed deposit account in modern day banking is haram in islam due to the interest that climbs it on regular intervals. I decided to seek more knowledge from Muslim brethen on NL, is it haram or halal for a muslim to open a "fixed deposit account?
NOTE: Give your opinion with vivd evidence from the Holy Qur'an and Hadith of the Holy Prophet (SAW)

It's haram cos of the interest( usury) you get from it, attached are the verses that states the prohibition of Usury(interest)

aanikky:

It's haram cos of the interest( usury) you get from it, attached are the verses that states the prohibition of Usury(interest)

Thanks...... But, Is it the giver or taker of interest that has committed a sin or both?

crownprince102:

Thanks...... But, Is it the giver or taker of interest that has committed a sin or both?

Welcome, both.

aanikky:

Welcome, both.

Good! But in the story of the Ashabul Kahf, one of the 3 men who were locked in rock while travelling prayed to God. He narrate a story of himself and his servant who didn't collect his wage after working. The man use the money to buy some livestocks and starting raring them. The livestock is no time multiplied into large numbers. The servant came back to the ask for the money and the man gave all the livestock saying that that was what his money had turn to. This man used this act of his in praying to allah to be release from the captivity he was and he was released at last. What's your justification on this?

crownprince102:

Good! But in the story of the Ashabul Kahf, one of the 3 men who were locked in rock while travelling prayed to God. He narrate a story of himself and his servant who didn't collect his wage after working. The man use the money to buy some livestocks and starting raring them. The livestock is no time multiplied into large numbers. The servant came back to the ask for the money and the man gave all the livestock saying that that was what his money had turn to. This man used this act of his in praying to allah to be release from the captivity he was and he was released at last. What's your justification on this?

Brother, that was not interest, it was profit. There is a clear difference between interest and profit. Let me try to explain to you using examples.

-Scenario 1. The bank loans business A, N1000 at 25% per annum, payable in 2years. The business now has to pay back N1000 + N250 +N250 by the end of year 2. Basically, the bank is selling money, ie the business is buying N1000 for N1500 on credit. That is interest. Now we know that the bank itself does not own the money it loans out. That is where the depositor comes in. Basically, the bank is a broker between you and business A. They help you to find a borrower, who you can loan money to, through them. For that service, they will collect part of the N500 interest that they have collected from business A. So you get back your principal of N1000 and maybe N100 per annum, while the bank gets the remaining N150. They help you recycle the money, by loaning it out to business B; when business A pays back. There is no trade or risk involved to either you or the bank. Usually, the loan is protected by the pledge of some form of assets that will be worth more than the loan given. The bank, and you, do not care whether business A does well or not... your own payback of 25% is fixed and is guaranteed.

-Scenario 2. Let us take an example of an Islamic bank. The bank will loan the depositor's money to business A on a profit sharing deal. For example 25% of the PROFIT (not principal), that the business makes for 2 years. This is more like a business partnership. The bank invests your money, and does not loan it out. If business A is profitable and makes a profit of N5000, the bank gets 25% and you the depositor, will split it with the bank according to your agreement. If the business makes a loss, the bank will also absorb part of that loss, and split the loss with you. In this case, there is an element of risk. You can imagine that the bank will do all that is in its power to help the business to succeed, through its influence and by helping out with advisers and technical input.

In the case you cited above, the man used his servant's money to buy livestock. The livestock therefore belong to the servant, because his money was used. Any natural growth in the number would also belong to the servant, since, if your goats give birth, you will own the kids. When the servant returned, he had a right to take over his property. It was not a loan with a fixed rate of return, so you cannot use it to justify taking interest.

In case it is confusing, think in terms of FIXED rate and RISK.

Fixed rate and no risk = interest.
Uncertain rate and present risk= profit.

Hope it is understable.

Abuamam:


Brother, that was not interest, it was profit. There is a clear difference between interest and profit. Let me try to explain to you using examples.

-Scenario 1. The bank loans business A, N1000 at 25% per annum, payable in 2years. The business now has to pay back N1000 + N250 +N250 by the end of year 2. Basically, the bank is selling money, ie the business is buying N1000 for N1500 on credit. That is interest. Now we know that the bank itself does not own the money it loans out. That is where the depositor comes in. Basically, the bank is a broker between you and business A. They help you to find a borrower, who you can loan money to, through them. For that service, they will collect part of the N500 interest that they have collected from business A. So you get back your principal of N1000 and maybe N100 per annum, while the bank gets the remaining N150. They help you recycle the money, by loaning it out to business B; when business A pays back. There is no trade or risk involved to either you or the bank. Usually, the loan is protected by the pledge of some form of assets that will be worth more than the loan given. The bank, and you, do not care whether business A does well or not... your own payback of 25% is fixed and is guaranteed.

-Scenario 2. Let us take an example of an Islamic bank. The bank will loan the depositor's money to business A on a profit sharing deal. For example 25% of the PROFIT (not principal), that the business makes for 2 years. This is more like a business partnership. The bank invests your money, and does not loan it out. If business A is profitable and makes a profit of N5000, the bank gets 25% and you the depositor, will split it with the bank according to your agreement. If the business makes a loss, the bank will also absorb part of that loss, and split the loss with you. In this case, there is an element of risk. You can imagine that the bank will do all that is in its power to help the business to succeed, through its influence and by helping out with advisers and technical input.

In the case you cited above, the man used his servant's money to buy livestock. The livestock therefore belong to the servant, because his money was used. Any natural growth in the number would also belong to the servant, since, if your goats give birth, you will own the kids. When the servant returned, he had a right to take over his property. It was not a loan with a fixed rate of return, so you cannot use it to justify taking interest.

In case it is confusing, think in terms of FIXED rate and RISK.

Fixed rate and no risk = interest.
Uncertain rate and present risk= profit.

Hope it is understable.

Thanks for your reply....... But know clearly that the money was kept by Mr. A for future purpose, I don't think he has any concern over what the bank had use the money for i.e loaning it to Mr. B. Mr. A had saved his money, Bank loaned to it Mr. B, I guess the fault lies with the bank since Mr. A won't be given any notice of how his money had been used..................
Also, does islamic bank has a fixed deposit acct, may be in a new dimension.

crownprince102:

Thanks for your reply....... But know clearly that the money was kept by Mr. A for future purpose, I don't think he has any concern over what the bank had use the money for i.e loaning it to Mr. B. Mr. A had saved his money, Bank loaned to it Mr. B, I guess the fault lies with the bank since Mr. A won't be given any notice of how his money had been used..................
Also, does islamic bank has a fixed deposit acct, may be in a new dimension.

Anyone who is conversant with modern banking knows that the main part of bank investments are made up of corporate loans. It is like you leave a weapon for safe-keeping with a known, active armed robber, then claim that you did not know that he was going to rob with it. Even if the bank uses it for halal business, as long as the depositor receives a FIXED percentage of his principal, free of any risk, he is still taking interest, which is haram. In any case, the safe-keeping analogy might work with someone who deposits his money in a normal savings account, where interest may be added against his will; and which he is not expected to make use of anyway. A depositor who deliberately puts his money in a conventional bank's FD account, probably has the higher interest rate in mind, so his case is obviously deliberate.
Some Islamic banks may have fixed deposit accounts; in that the principal cannot be withdrawn within a certain time period, but the depositor may not be given a fixed, risk free return on his principal.

Mod this should be in the islamic section please. Should any christian make any inciting statement on this thread, the op would be solely blamed as he posted this on a section other than the one meant for him. Enough of this dominance!
Thanks
Op go to your section and post there. God bless u IN JESUS CHRIST NAME. AMEN

Usury is forbidden according to the Bible, Quran and the Torah.

At least muslims still have this discussion - jews and xtians pretend that those verses (that prohibit usury) do not exist.

crownprince102:

Good! But in the story of the Ashabul Kahf, one of the 3 men who were locked in rock while travelling prayed to God. He narrate a story of himself and his servant who didn't collect his wage after working. The man use the money to buy some livestocks and starting raring them. The livestock is no time multiplied into large numbers. The servant came back to the ask for the money and the man gave all the livestock saying that that was what his money had turn to. This man used this act of his in praying to allah to be release from the captivity he was and he was released at last. What's your justification on this?

Did they enter into a mutual agreement to do biz with the money? The labourer did not come for his money so the employer invested the money and gave the labourer all the proceeds, right.
If you invest in fixed deposit, your money is lent out by the bank to people who get loans from bank, the bank does this aiming to earn profit through the interest that is charged, right?
This interest is taken by the bank and the bank gives you a share out of it, right?
So we see they are very different cases, the first the employee ddnt invest with the aim of making profit in the form of income, to me what he did could be seen as similar to taking care of an orphan's property or business, without taking out of it, except if one is so poor and decided to pay himself a standard wage relative to what others get but not an interest.

I don't know if the normal coperate banks in Nigeria have islamic banking plans, but in some countries there are islamic baning plans, that muslims can opt for. One thing i'm sure of is that in Nigeria we have Islamic banls so if a brother or sister wants to save his money,s/he can. Most of us are guilty of this cos we receive nterest even on the savings account that are not tagged as fixed deposit. Nigerian muslims don't really care About this usury of a thing but it's a big sin on us. May Allah forgive us all and may He make us adhere to His rules

^because no one teaches it. Some even proud saying " 20% interest will accumulate on my principal deposit by xyz months".

Usually they don't know.

aanikky:
I don't know if the normal coperate banks in Nigeria have islamic banking plans, but in some countries there are islamic baning plans, that muslims can opt for. One thing i'm sure of is that in Nigeria we have Islamic banls so if a brother or sister wants to save his money,s/he can. Most of us are guilty of this cos we receive nterest even on the savings account that are not tagged as fixed deposit. Nigerian muslims don't really care About this usury of a thing but it's a big sin on us. May Allah forgive us all and may He make us adhere to His rules

Some banks have Islamic windows; Stanbic IBTC, and Keystone bank that I know of.
The problem is that the Islamic banks in Nigeria do not provide competitive services. The branches are also scarce, or they use a counter in conventional banks as outlets. Jaiz bank for example, has an outlet in Stanbic IBTC, but how can a rival bank help your bank to develop? As far as I know, they have only 3 branches of their own nationwide. No matter how much I want to put my money in an interest free account, I cannot go to Abuja to do that, nor can I be begging another bank to answer my complaints on behalf of Jaiz bank.
Islamic banks should wake up and provide cutting edge services, not just rely solely on their no-interest appeal.
In the meantime, one can carefully keep a record of the interest added, and leave it there for them.

Abuamam:


Some banks have Islamic windows; Stanbic IBTC, and Keystone bank that I know of.
The problem is that the Islamic banks in Nigeria do not provide competitive services. The branches are also scarce, or they use a counter in conventional banks as outlets. Jaiz bank for example, has an outlet in Stanbic IBTC, but how can a rival bank help your bank to develop? As far as I know, they have only 3 branches of their own nationwide. No matter how much I want to put my money in an interest free account, I cannot go to Abuja to do that, nor can I be begging another bank to answer my complaints on behalf of Jaiz bank.
Islamic banks should wake up and provide cutting edge services, not just rely solely on their no-interest appeal.
In the meantime, one can carefully keep a record of the interest added, and leave it there for them.

Yes they should and we should help by using them too. Places with muslims as minority have islamic banks, but maybe we Nigerian muslims are not really clamouring for it as much as we should

sbaks:
Mod this should be in the islamic section please. Should any christian make any inciting statement on this thread, the op would be solely blamed as he posted this on a section other than the one meant for him. Enough of this dominance!
Thanks
Op go to your section and post there. God bless u IN JESUS CHRIST NAME. AMEN

How has this affected ur life, brother pls tell me, what's with tolerance.

aanikky:

How has this affected ur life, brother pls tell me, what's with tolerance.

you guys are SO INTOLERANT, WICKED AND SELFISH. Now tell me, islam "for muslims" no dey? Why come to the multi religious place especially when you know that "christians" flood this section?
Anything I say here OHOHO na una sabi. Na wa for una religion

aanikky:

How has this affected ur life, brother pls tell me, what's with tolerance.

you guys are SO INTOLERANT, WICKED AND SELFISH. Now tell me, islam "for muslims" no dey? Why come to the multi religious place especially when you know that "christians" flood this section?
Anything I say here OHOHO na una sabi. Na wa for una religion. I SOAK MYSELF WITH THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. AMEN

sbaks:
you guys are SO INTOLERANT, WICKED AND SELFISH. Now tell me, islam "for muslims" no dey? Why come to the multi religious place especially when you know that "christians" flood this section?
Anything I say here OHOHO na una sabi. Na wa for una religion. I SOAK MYSELF WITH THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. AMEN

I 'm very sorry for Posting this topic here, this is actually my first time of creating a thread on the religion section. I 'm really sorry for the mistake, I would have move this thread to the right place if it was movable.
But I won't fail to ask you the sole reason why you 've complained about it being here? This thread only ask a question, it doesn't in one way or the other preach islam nor abuse Jesus. This is even a question that can be asked by a christian who wants to know about it. This thread didn't in one way or the other abuse Jesus and Christianity. It sounds strange and absurd to me when you posted this and even when on to abuse a muslim brother who only asked a question. The situation in the country preaches tolerance and understanding among both religion. This thread might even be a benefit to you, who knows if you will own a banking or financial institution sooner or later, this can actually teach you more in bringing in customers from the islamic religion. If this spat between you and my muslim brother goes wide, alot of christian would say, "muslims are terrorist" not really knowing how it start. Please just give me the reason why you 've done this. Thanks!

crownprince102:

I 'm very sorry for Posting this topic here, this is actually my first time of creating a thread on the religion section. I 'm really sorry for the mistake, I would have move this thread to the right place if it was movable.
But I won't fail to ask you the sole reason why you 've complained about it being here? This thread only ask a question, it doesn't in one way or the other preach islam nor abuse Jesus. This is even a question that can be asked by a christian who wants to know about it. This thread didn't in one way or the other abuse Jesus and Christianity. It sounds strange and absurd to me when you posted this and even when on to abuse a muslim brother who only asked a question. The situation in the country preaches tolerance and understanding among both religion. This thread might even be a benefit to you, who knows if you will own a banking or financial institution sooner or later, this can actually teach you more in bringing in customers from the islamic religion. If this spat between you and my muslim brother goes wide, alot of christian would say, "muslims are terrorist" not really knowing how it start. Please just give me the reason why you 've done this. Thanks!

Don't mind them bro. They are always spoiling for a fight. Many of them don't have a life outside NL religion section... abusing muslims. Generally we just see them as background noise, just ignore them; best policy. Scroll through and you will see their hate posts.

crownprince102:

I 'm very sorry for Posting this topic here, this is actually my first time of creating a thread on the religion section. I 'm really sorry for the mistake, I would have move this thread to the right place if it was movable.
But I won't fail to ask you the sole reason why you 've complained about it being here? This thread only ask a question, it doesn't in one way or the other preach islam nor abuse Jesus. This is even a question that can be asked by a christian who wants to know about it. This thread didn't in one way or the other abuse Jesus and Christianity. It sounds strange and absurd to me when you posted this and even when on to abuse a muslim brother who only asked a question. The situation in the country preaches tolerance and understanding among both religion. This thread might even be a benefit to you, who knows if you will own a banking or financial institution sooner or later, this can actually teach you more in bringing in customers from the islamic religion. If this spat between you and my muslim brother goes wide, alot of christian would say, "muslims are terrorist" not really knowing how it start. Please just give me the reason why you 've done this. Thanks!

Islamists are bad. Your people have hurt me real bad and I know all your games. So just quit all these your trashy humility thing. You guys are heinous sorry to say.
I REPEAT MYSELF AGAIN, "I SOAK MY SELF IN THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. AMEN"

sbaks:

Islamists are bad. Your people have hurt me real bad and I know all your games. So just quit all these your trashy humility thing. You guys are heinous sorry to say.
I REPEAT MYSELF AGAIN, "I SOAK MY SELF IN THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. AMEN"

The blood you soak yourself in encourages you to castigate other peoples religion right?

sbaks:
you guys are SO INTOLERANT, WICKED AND SELFISH. Now tell me, islam "for muslims" no dey? Why come to the multi religious place especially when you know that "christians" flood this section?
Anything I say here OHOHO na una sabi. Na wa for una religion. I SOAK MYSELF WITH THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. AMEN

The day ppl like u get common sense, the world would be a better place.

Someone should move this thread to the seventy-two virgins section . What is it still doing here?

Common sense fixed deposit OK. Islam fixed deposit forbidden (Haram). Case Closed. Now move the thread away to its proper section.