So was having a conversation with a born again friend, i raised some questions which she couldn't answer out of fear and believe. I do believe in God, but some things just don't add up

1. Do you believe in hell? personally i think its a fear factor thing . Think about it, why would a loving God create a place for you to burn eternally ? A sin is a sin they say, so basically murderers , rapists and sinners like liars,clubbing,having multiple sex partners etc will end up in the same place? .

2. All sins are the same? seriously , so a dictator can start a genocide killing millions , but become a born again christian today and make heaven if the rapture takes place the same day? while a guy who's got good heart, helps people, never hurts anybody ,but loves woman and clubs wont make it ?

3. You can only make heaven if you believe in Jesus? Interesting , so what about those brought up in islam ,but serve their God with all their heart and mostly do no wrong? You were brought up in a christian home just like they were brought up in islam , so imagine telling them what they have been told since birth is wrong ?

4.The story of Job- i guess everyone knows the story .Why did God decide to test Job in order to proof a point to the devil? He sees all and knows all, so why prove a point to your worst creation?

5.The apple- why was it there in the first place, Again he sees all and knows all, why create something that you know for sure will ruin your creations future for millions of years to come?

6. Back in the old testament, God was always revealing himself one way or the other to people . Why now when there's been so many wars, famine , all kind of crimes has God not appeared some how some way in the sky to warn us about hell etc? does he want most people to end up in hell? He can stop all this by revealing himself to stop how evil the worlds got now

Discuss, only mature discussions please

Waiting

Lemme start with No. 5.

The fruit (type not stated) did not contain anything to kill Adam. It wasn't dangerous to human health and God didn't keep it to tempt Adam. Rather it was a sign of authority to Adam and his offsprings, that despite the fact that they have everything and were in charge of the earth, they still were under someone, God, who reserved the right to tell them what to do and what not.

Adam was a free moral agent and not a robot. So his decision to obey an authority would stem not out of unintelligent obedience but out of choice.

Humans do the same thing today. In many houses, u find items which exclusively belongs to the father in the house. Not because this items would kill anyone, but because its a sign of respect and submission to not use your fathers stuffs e.g. his drink cup or tooth brush or personal plate etc. A child who disregards this order would be seen as insubordinate.


Adam disregarded the one who gave him life and so he died.


I will answer number 4 next when I get ur feed back.

vfactor:
Lemme start with No. 5.

The fruit (type not stated) did not contain anything to kill Adam. It wasn't dangerous to human health and God didn't keep it to tempt Adam. Rather it was a sign of authority to Adam and his offsprings, that despite the fact that they have everything and were in charge of the earth, they still were under someone, God, who reserved the right to tell them what to do and what not.

Adam was a free moral agent and not a robot. So his decision to obey an authority would stem not out of unintelligent obedience but out of choice.

Humans do the same thing today. In many houses, u find items which exclusively belongs to the father in the house. Not because this items would kill anyone, but because its a sign of respect and submission to not use your fathers stuffs e.g. his drink cup or tooth brush or personal plate etc. A child who disregards this order would be seen as insubordinate.


Adam disregarded the one who gave him life and so he died.


I will answer number 4 next when I get ur feed back.

I get your point, But God knew Eve was going to be tempted by satan, isnt that some kind of setup?

stillreal:


I get your point, But God knew Eve was going to be tempted by satan, isnt that some kind of setup?

Well, this might sound a little strange, but it is what it is. God has the power to foreknow things. But he doesn't always use it.

Reason.
We re free moral agents. Knowing every single action would take would mean God is violating this principles. He gives us direction and let us make our own choices, while warning us of the consequences. Deu 30:19.

The temptation of eve by the devil provided her a fine opportunity for her to demonstrate that she appreciated God for what he has done for her. After all she had a choice.

vfactor:


Well, this might sound a little strange, but it is what it is. God has the power to foreknow things. But he doesn't always use it.

Reason.
We re free moral agents. Knowing every single action would take would mean God is violating this principles. He gives us direction and let us make our own choices, while warning us of the consequences. Deu 30:19.

The temptation of eve by the devil provided her a fine opportunity for her to demonstrate that she appreciated God for what he has done for her. After all she had a choice.

There is a contradiction there though , from your bible verse Deu 30:19. Then Adam didn't know good from bad, he was nude and had it all. So why test him and not forgive him for his first sin ?

stillreal:


There is a contradiction there though , from your bible verse Deu 30:19. Then Adam didn't know good from bad, he was nude and had it all. So why test him and not forgive him for his first sin ?

Take note that it wasn't God who tested Adam (James 1:13). Adam was naked doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing or not doing. 1Timothy 2:14 states that Adam was not deceived. He knew exactly what he was doing.

The statement by the devil that u will come know good and bad and that you would be like God meant that Eve and Adam would now have the right to decide for themselves what was good and what was bad and wouldn't let anyone (God inclusive) to spell it for them. Prior Adam receive all instruction from God and used his ingenuity to carry them. Satan was implying that that shouldn't happen anymore.

vfactor:


Take note that it wasn't God who tested Adam (James 1:13). Adam was naked doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing or not doing. 1Timothy 2:14 states that Adam was not deceived. He knew exactly what he was doing.

The statement by the devil that u will come know good and bad and that you would be like God meant that Eve and Adam would now have the right to decide for themselves what was good and what was bad and wouldn't let anyone (God inclusive) to spell it for them. Prior Adam receive all instruction from God and used his ingenuity to carry them. Satan was implying that that shouldn't happen anymore.

Still doesn't add up. Its like a dad who puts a penny on the kitchen table, and he knows 100% his child will take the money to get some sweets, but then decides to punish that child and all generations to come .

stillreal:


Still doesn't add up. Its like a dad who puts a penny on the kitchen table, and he knows 100% his child will take the money to get some sweets, but then decides to punish that child and all generations to come .

I used an illustrate of a father's personal item earlier to explain this fact. The tree was not test Adam. The restriction was a sign of authority over Adam. And the fact that God can foreknow doesn't mean he always. Humans have free will and are not robot.

So this is an appropriate scenario. Fathers comes home with a new ceramic plate and tells excited son, this is my own plate. U can use all others in the house. But not this it's mine.

The father trust that the boy will obey him.

vfactor:


I used an illustrate of a father's personal item earlier to explain this fact. The tree was not test Adam. The restriction was a sign of authority over Adam. And the fact that God can foreknow doesn't mean he always. Humans have free will and are not robot.

So this is an appropriate scenario. Fathers comes home with a new ceramic plate and tells excited son, this is my own plate. U can use all others in the house. But not this it's mine.

The father trust that the boy will obey him.

'And the fact that God can foreknow doesn't mean he always' so you are saying God doesnt always see the future ?

stillreal:


'And the fact that God can foreknow doesn't mean he always' so you are saying God doesnt always see the future ?

Yes! And understanding this fact will help us answer question 4. Shall we?

vfactor:



Yes! And understanding this fact will help us answer question 4. Shall we?

Well that's a new one for me , so whats your take on question 4?

stillreal:


Well that's a new one for me

Yes it is. Even so called bornagains dont know.

The teaching that God predestines everything and knows everything that will happen teaching that makes God look bad and evil. Just like Satan tried to paint God bad to eve.

4. God didn't tempt Job (James 1:13). But he allowed it. The devil accused God bribing Job to worship him by giving him everything he needed and making life easy for him. So the devil alleged that if things changed for Job for the worse, he would abandon God and try to survive first!

Like it was mentioned earlier, God doesn't always exercise his power to know the future. If he decided to use it in Jobs case, it will amount to robbing Job of the ability to decide if he abandons God or not. Besides Satan made this allegation in front of other angels. How would it be proven to these ones that Satan was lying against Job and that God doesn't bribe his servants to worship him? It's not a matter of trusting God. It's a matter of proving beyond reasonable doubt.

So he had to let Job be tested. ( Read Job 1 and 2).

vfactor:
4. God didn't tempt Job (James 1:13). But he allowed it. The devil accused God bribing Job to worship him by giving him everything he needed and making life easy for him. So the devil alleged that if things changed for Job for the worse, he would abandon God and try to survive first!

Like it was mentioned earlier, God doesn't always exercise his power to know the future. If he decided to use it in Jobs case, it will amount to robbing Job of the ability to decide if he abandons God or not. Besides Satan made this allegation in front of other angels. How would it be proven to these ones that Satan was lying against Job and that God doesn't bribe his servants to worship him? It's not a matter of trusting God. It's a matter of proving beyond reasonable doubt.

So he had to let Job be tested. ( Read Job 1 and 2).

Personally i don't think God switches off his ability to know the future.Destroying a mans life just to prove a point to someone who is the essence of evil is questionable . You wouldn't kill your sons wife, kids, destroy his businesses , properties just to prove a point to a jealous friend who thinks your son only loves you as a father because you are rich and give him all this things.

stillreal:


Personally i don't think God switches off his ability to know the future.Destroying a mans life just to prove a point to someone who is the essence of evil is questionable . You wouldn't kill your sons wife, kids, destroy his businesses , properties just to prove a point to a jealous friend who thinks your son only loves you as a father because you are rich and give him all this things.

Well let's look at it this way. How would you handle the situation where a person accuses u of being hardworking cos u received extra tips and benefits from your boss. That if u were just paid ur normal salary, u would be lazy and even quit the job for something better.

Its something of that nature, though not exactly the same.

God was not proving anything to the devil. No! He was proving that the devil is a liar. To prove this, those 'benefits' that Satan claimed Job enjoyed had to go, leaving just his 'basic salary' (life). Mind you this allegation was made in presence of other persons (angels,). So things needed to be set straight. God is not tyrannical. He doesn't need to prove anything to anybody either. In his wisdom, however he determined to set the matter straight for all to see, u and I included.

And God did restore double of what job lost. It will interest u to know that the same thing still happens to any who claims to serve God today out of genuine love.

Is vfactor God? Why then is he speaking on God's behalf? Will he allow God to speak for himself?

vfactor:


Well let's look at it this way. How would you handle the situation where a person accuses u of being hardworking cos u received extra tips and benefits from your boss. That if u were just paid ur normal salary, u would be lazy and even quit the job for something better.

Its something of that nature, though not exactly the same.

God was not proving anything to the devil. No! He was proving that the devil is a liar. To prove this, those 'benefits' that Satan claimed Job enjoyed had to go, leaving just his 'basic salary' (life). Mind you this allegation was made in presence of other persons (angels,). So things needed to be set straight. God is not tyrannical. He doesn't need to prove anything to anybody either. In his wisdom, however he determined to set the matter straight for all to see, u and I included.

And God did restore double of what job lost. It will interest u to know that the same thing still happens to any who claims to serve God today out of genuine love.

I get what you are trying to say , but still doesn't add up. killing jobs kids, wife etc isn't the way to go about it, you mentioned God restoring those stuffs in double, but does that matter? He loved those kids, loved that wife so now he has to start all over again just because the devil wanted to prove a point?

The devil loves destruction, so he basically tempted God to destroy Jobs life, even if it was restored. The Devil some how gained some satisfaction during those few months of Jobs fall

vfactor:
4. God didn't tempt Job (James 1:13). But he allowed it. The devil accused God bribing Job to worship him by giving him everything he needed and making life easy for him. So the devil alleged that if things changed for Job for the worse, he would abandon God and try to survive first!

Like it was mentioned earlier, God doesn't always exercise his power to know the future. If he decided to use it in Jobs case, it will amount to robbing Job of the ability to decide if he abandons God or not. Besides Satan made this allegation in front of other angels. How would it be proven to these ones that Satan was lying against Job and that God doesn't bribe his servants to worship him? It's not a matter of trusting God. It's a matter of proving beyond reasonable doubt.

So he had to let Job be tested. ( Read Job 1 and 2).

You just sit down in your room and cook up silly stories about a supposed creator and expect right thinking people to accept it?
Now you know God switches his ability of fore knowledge. You actually sound like God himself, and I wonder what sort of God sounds so confused. Now I am sure this is all your own thought out idea about God but you make him sound like a human.
So since you know much... When does he decide to switch off his foreknowledge ability? Me thinks its only when humans are about to make the wrong choice or suffer, then all of a sudden he does not know the future. But when its time to make the right choice or get lucky he switches it back and its becomes all about him.
Just tell me you are joking so that I can laugh.

stillreal:
So was having a conversation with a born again friend, i raised some questions which she couldn't answer out of fear and believe. I do believe in God, but some things just don't add up

1. Do you believe in hell? personally i think its a fear factor thing . Think about it, why would a loving God create a place for you to burn eternally ? A sin is a sin they say, so basically murderers , rapists and sinners like liars,clubbing,having multiple sex partners etc will end up in the same place? .

Hell and the Lake of fire were meant for the devil and his angels. It is a place of utter separation from God (not even the most vile nihilist can appreciate what this feels like!.) However, when man choose to toe the path of the devil, he chose that consequence too!
Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will say to those at His left hand, Begone from Me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!

God is a Loving God but He is also A God of Justice!!!

2. All sins are the same? seriously , so a dictator can start a genocide killing millions , but become a born again christian today and make heaven if the rapture takes place the same day? while a guy who's got good heart, helps people, never hurts anybody ,but loves woman and clubs wont make it ?

The first point is that the essence of the Faith of Christ is reconciliation with God on His terms and the expression of this reconciliation is good works. A moralist lacks this reconciliation hence remains separated from God. We cannot effect this reconciliation by our good works. A dictator who repents and is reconciled with God is transformed and he no longer remains the same. Quite unfortunate that many died by his misuse of authority. Before God, one who hates his brother is no different from the dictator that murdered many and the abortionist and his client (s). They all head to the same destiny with he who they followed in rebellion.

3. You can only make heaven if you believe in Jesus? Interesting , so what about those brought up in islam ,but serve their God with all their heart and mostly do no wrong? You were brought up in a christian home just like they were brought up in islam , so imagine telling them what they have been told since birth is wrong ?

Again, we must get to that point of reconciliation with God. This is not a physical,external matter; it is something done in spirit, by the Spirit and in Truth. Adam was not created a sinner but he became one after he fell; any means of reconciliation then must restore man back to that state of fellowship and reconciliation with God, partaking in His Nature by His Spirit. Only those who were thus reconciled with God while alive, get to Heaven after they die. And in God's wisdom, since by man came slavery to sin and separation from God, by Man also comes freedom and reconciliation to God.

4.The story of Job- i guess everyone knows the story .Why did God decide to test Job in order to proof a point to the devil? He sees all and knows all, so why prove a point to your worst creation?

I cannot answer this question; to me, it, like many other that we see today, will become clearer on the other side. Meanwhile I believe Job's reaction/attitude is an exemplary one in a world of some inexplicables:

Job 23:10-12
10 But He knows the way that I take [He has concern for it, appreciates, and pays attention to it]. When He has tried me, I shall come forth as refined gold [pure and luminous].
11 My foot has held fast to His steps; His ways have I kept and not turned aside.
12 I have not gone back from the commandment of His lips; I have esteemed and treasured the words of His mouth more than my necessary food.

5.The apple- why was it there in the first place, Again he sees all and knows all, why create something that you know for sure will ruin your creations future for millions of years to come?

God made man (likewise the angels) with a freewill and it would be against His Nature to force man into a state contrary to the freewill he has. That's why the consequence of the forbidden fruit was clearly given beforehand.The Bible reveals that God knows our hearts( which controls us:our words and actions) and our inclinations based on what is in the heart; but it is silent about His knowing our wills and the choice it will make (not that He cannot know but He chooses not to in keeping with His Nature: giving us a right to choose!.). He has chosen to limit Himself to our hearts.

As regards the forbidden fruit, here is what I believe:
The statement made by God in Genesis 3:22 shows that Adam was made but there was a certain allowance made for his freewill, in other words he was to choose how he will be for all eternity, more like a period of decision (I dont know how long this was to last). Not that death was already existent, but in that state, Adam was to choose the life he wanted and was warned of the outcome if he went for the forbidden tree
Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Meaning before he fell, Adam was in a state of probation the choice he made will decide what he was to be for all eternity. If he and Eve had gone for this tree, the consequence will mean they would live forever in the state they were made (best) and if after taking the forbidden fruit they took of this one, there will be nothing like redemption!!! I believe satan had not finished with them before God came around (or he did not know the implication of that tree) else he might have persuaded them to take of that one too and be his servants for ever!!!!!!!!

6. Back in the old testament, God was always revealing himself one way or the other to people . Why now when there's been so many wars, famine , all kind of crimes has God not appeared some how some way in the sky to warn us about hell etc? does he want most people to end up in hell? He can stop all this by revealing himself to stop how evil the worlds got now

Discuss, only mature discussions please

All God's revelation in the OT culminated when Jesus became flesh. After His ascension, He sent the Holy Spirit Who is still present today. But you know what? Just as those in the OT still rebelled, many have once been convicted/spoken to by the Spirit, or through people He sends, but they harden themselves and God will not force anyone! But know that he who chooses a course automatically chooses its consequence.
The Presence of the Holy Spirit in NT capacity makes us better positioned than the world in the OT times.

frank317:


You just sit down in your room and cook up silly stories about a supposed creator and expect right thinking people to accept it?
Now you know God switches his ability of fore knowledge. You actually sound like God himself, and I wonder what sort of God sounds so confused. Now I am sure this is all your own thought out idea about God but you make him sound like a human.
So since you know much... When does he decide to switch off his foreknowledge ability? Me thinks its only when humans are about to make the wrong choice or suffer, then all of a sudden he does not know the future. But when its time to make the right choice or get lucky he switches it back and its becomes all about him.
Just tell me you are joking so that I can laugh.

I would have loved to engage in a discussion with you. But there is one roadblock: your arrogance. You feel just because you do not believe in God, u re a right thinking person, while others who choose to believe have faulty thinking.

Tell me, how has you right thinking improved your life considerably better than those who believe in God?

If u were sincerely interested in getting answers to the questions u ask. I would have loved to answer. But the way u sound its seems your mind is already made up. And I have no issue with you. But don't think because u don't believe in God, it makes u a better thinker than I am.

vfactor:


I would have loved to engage in a discussion with you. But there is one roadblock: your arrogance. You feel just because you do not believe in God, u re a right thinking person, while others who choose to believe have faulty thinking.

Tell me, how has you right thinking improved your life considerably better than those who believe in God?

If u were sincerely interested in getting answers to the questions u ask. I would have loved to answer. But the way u sound its seems your mind is already made up. And I have no issue with you. But don't think because u don't believe in God, it makes u a better thinker than I am.

Oh pls... You obviously have no answer for me. I have come across your type a million times. Listen if I engage you do you know how it will end? You will end it by saying..."you are not spiritually minded... So you will not understand"
All I see is you cooking up fake stories about God... And oh my right thinking has not improved my life in any way... BWT... I didn't think like this because I want my life to be improved. I just wanted to stop creating fairy tales in my mind. Just like you are doing.

stillreal:
So was having a conversation with a born again friend, i raised some questions which she couldn't answer out of fear and believe. I do believe in God, but some things just don't add up

1. Do you believe in hell? personally i think its a fear factor thing . Think about it, why would a loving God create a place for you to burn eternally ? A sin is a sin they say, so basically murderers , rapists and sinners like liars,clubbing,having multiple sex partners etc will end up in the same place? .

2. All sins are the same? seriously , so a dictator can start a genocide killing millions , but become a born again christian today and make heaven if the rapture takes place the same day? while a guy who's got good heart, helps people, never hurts anybody ,but loves woman and clubs wont make it ?

3. You can only make heaven if you believe in Jesus? Interesting , so what about those brought up in islam ,but serve their God with all their heart and mostly do no wrong? You were brought up in a christian home just like they were brought up in islam , so imagine telling them what they have been told since birth is wrong ?

4.The story of Job- i guess everyone knows the story .Why did God decide to test Job in order to proof a point to the devil? He sees all and knows all, so why prove a point to your worst creation?

5.The apple- why was it there in the first place, Again he sees all and knows all, why create something that you know for sure will ruin your creations future for millions of years to come?

6. Back in the old testament, God was always revealing himself one way or the other to people . Why now when there's been so many wars, famine , all kind of crimes has God not appeared some how some way in the sky to warn us about hell etc? does he want most people to end up in hell? He can stop all this by revealing himself to stop how evil the worlds got now

Discuss, only mature discussions please

Point 1.God is merciful ND is mercy endureth 4 ever. 2 chronicle 20 vs 21.hell is real ND heaven is real. When garden of eden. Heaven on earth was destroyed as a result of simple instruction neglected sin. Man died spiritually. I. E cut short from fellowshiping with God. Immediately after that death we all move under d Dominion of d devil. 2 corinthians 4 vs 4.nb sumti if you are under devil God prepared sumti 4 devil. Hell. Mathew 25 vs 41.a loving God never prepared fire 4 is children but 4 Satan's children. Roman 6 vs 15 ND 16.

stillreal:
So was having a conversation with a born again friend, i raised some questions which she couldn't answer out of fear and believe. I do believe in God, but some things just don't add up

1. Do you believe in hell? personally i think its a fear factor thing . Think about it, why would a loving God create a place for you to burn eternally ? A sin is a sin they say, so basically murderers , rapists and sinners like liars,clubbing,having multiple sex partners etc will end up in the same place? .

2. All sins are the same? seriously , so a dictator can start a genocide killing millions , but become a born again christian today and make heaven if the rapture takes place the same day? while a guy who's got good heart, helps people, never hurts anybody ,but loves woman and clubs wont make it ?

3. You can only make heaven if you believe in Jesus? Interesting , so what about those brought up in islam ,but serve their God with all their heart and mostly do no wrong? You were brought up in a christian home just like they were brought up in islam , so imagine telling them what they have been told since birth is wrong ?

4.The story of Job- i guess everyone knows the story .Why did God decide to test Job in order to proof a point to the devil? He sees all and knows all, so why prove a point to your worst creation?

5.The apple- why was it there in the first place, Again he sees all and knows all, why create something that you know for sure will ruin your creations future for millions of years to come?

6. Back in the old testament, God was always revealing himself one way or the other to people . Why now when there's been so many wars, famine , all kind of crimes has God not appeared some how some way in the sky to warn us about hell etc? does he want most people to end up in hell? He can stop all this by revealing himself to stop how evil the worlds got now

Discuss, only mature discussions please

i
Point 2 . know 2da wu u serve cus u are under wu you serve. Roman 6 vs 15 ND 16.hav not been Dr b4 ND never 4 ones prayed to be Dr but 1 tin is certain. Wages of sin is death. Roman 6vs 23.nd it results in hell prepared 4 d devil. Galatians 5 vs 19.tells us about sin but did not group hell cause it falls on d
same place.

@ vfactor, nice ,correct answers .



I surely know that God , who is love, will not purnish humans, who are imperfect, prone to mistakes from birth ,bad inclination from birth, most times not having an accurate knowledge of good, usually faced with the unfluence of evil throughout his short, less than 80 years of existence , will now face torment, fire,pain agony, for billions of billions of years because of his sins for a couple of years. That is not justice ! .

frank317:


Oh pls... You obviously have no answer for me. I have come across your type a million times. Listen if I engage you do you know how it will end? You will end it by saying..."you are not spiritually minded... So you will not understand"
All I see is you cooking up fake stories about God... And oh my right thinking has not improved my life in any way... BWT... I didn't think like this because I want my life to be improved. I just wanted to stop creating fairy tales in my mind. Just like you are doing.

you never met anyone like me. I assure you.

But the God replaced Job's old dead children with fresh new ones. Viagra must have been available back then, as well as a rampant short term memory problem.

vfactor:

Well, this might sound a little strange, but it is what it is. God has the power to foreknow things. But he doesn't always use it.

A wicked blasphemy! Dude, do you really know the way you are paving

ezebrain:


A wicked blasphemy! Dude, do you really know the way you are paving

Please enlighten me!

vfactor:

Please enlighten me!

You should intuitively interpret the word "omniscience" in order not to drag down the creator of the universe bellow human presumption.

GOD knows everything, sees everything and maintains everything. That omniscience does not imply the capability to know your petty human trifling should not mean that GOD does not always use it (as you said). With HIS omniscient HE sees the final result of your decision; the fruit of your freewill.

vfactor:


you never met anyone like me. I assure you.

Of course I haven't... Isn't this the first time I am hearing that God switches his foreknowledge ability off and on? The thing you don't realize is that this new personality is like a mockery to a whole Almighty creator.
Accept it... You are not God and you can't sit in the comfort of your room and cook up a personality for him just to make sense of you mythical belief.
No one knows the exact beginning or creator of the world and it cannot be a personality switching ghost. If you engage me I will make you realize you know nothing.

ezebrain:


You should intuitively interpret the word "omniscience" in order not to drag down the creator of the universe bellow human presumption.

GOD knows everything, sees everything and maintains everything. That omniscience does not imply the capability to know your petty human trifling should not mean that GOD does not always use it (as you said). With HIS omniscient HE sees the final result of your decision; the fruit of your freewill.

Is that all? Okay. I respect your opinion. And you made some valid points; he knows the final result of your decision. Agreed! No dispute. But what I am asking is does God always know which choice u will make? He knows the outcome of any choice, but does he always know which choice you will make?

Let's look at the implication of your point. From your argument it is safe to say God knows Adam will sin, but still asked him no to sin. Does it sound logical? It like placing a yam in front of a goat and asking the goat not to eat the yam when you know it will eat it? Does it sound wise and reasonable?

Your argument also implies that some persons have been saved and condemned from birth. In other words what they will end up as has already been know. They can not do differently. Could rightly punish those persons, since they really don't have a choice?

God being all knowing, knows exactly the outcome of any decision will take and he warns us against the bad. If he already knows we would not obey, why warn us?

Granted, God can know and determine the course persons life, but there re only few cases in the bible were God did such. And he did that in other to carry out his purpose at that point in time. However the vast majority of humans have a choice either to what is right or wrong (Deu. 30:19). This would not be an option if God has already know we could not.