I have been reading so many threads on this religious forums that I don't even know how to reply every single person that say all sorts of things against the catholic church. I will start by addressing all their entry points one by one starting from Idolatory.

Concerning Idolatory: Idolatory is a largely misunderstood concept that has gone of the true meaning in the old days when God was far from humans. Idolatory wast typically the making of carved images by people and worshipping them as God and neglecting the true God. This was clearly shown in Exodus 32:7 when the Lord said to Moses "Go, get down! For your people whom you brought out of Egypt have corrupted themselves. They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them. They have made themselves a molded calf, and worshipped it, and sacrificed to it. This was exactly the idol worship done that God hated. Today statues are made everywhere to remember great men. Starting from Nigeria which has a statue of Zik and so many other great men. This statues are made for mere remembrance by people who love them. In the same way, statues are made in the catholic church for the same purpose. I have never seen anyone worshipping or sacrificing to any statue as his/her god or even God. Apart from that, remember that God is everywhere and in everyone, but He cannot certainly be in one possessed by demons neither can He be in unholy places. Jesus preferred going to lonely places to pray. Places where no one has defiled. Places that are natural. This is exactly why chapels and grottos are built. The provide a holy place for us to pray. Where we are most certainly sure that God is present.
Also catholics worship the blessed sacrament, because they believe God is there. If you can remember Exodus 25:8. God said "Let them make Me a sanctuary, that I amy dwell among them." And He gave them instructions. This was carried on and it was only priests that were allowed to Go into the sanctuary which was separated from the people by a curtain. But when Jesus died, this curtain was torn showing that the blockage between God and Man had been broken. The Sanctuary was now for everyone to see. It is the same sanctuary that only the catholic church preserves and has up to this day. We still believes God is present there as He has always been. We adore Him in Benediction. And we remember Him daily by repeating the breaking of the bread  as He did in the Bible. Remember that before Christ died He told them to do this in memory of Him,, and that it will not be given its true meaning until he eats and drinks with us in Heaven. Each time he appeared to the disciples He repeated it showing us how frequently it should be done. It's such a shame that others who separated themselves from the catholic church don't do this, but I do not blame them because confusion or separation is never from God.

Concerning the Holy Mother: I sometimes find it amusing when someone tells me that their is no where in the Bible that says we should pray to the Holy Mother or rather a more absurd statement that the Chaplet is demonic.  It is clearly written in the Bible that the woman shall crush the head of the serpent, this is why her statues is popularly made with her standing on the head of a serpent. She was the source of the victory against the devil and as in revealations 12:13 "When the dragon saw that he had been cast down to earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child". Praying is simply defined as communicating with God. Hardly anyone talks directly to God. We all pray and our guardian angel carries our prayers to the Lord. In some translations of the Bible like NIV which agnlican bishops use, Jesus said "If you do not become like these little children, you can by no means enter the kingdom of heaven for their angels see the face of God daily". This tell us why God does not easily hear the prayers of a sinner. For his angel does not see the face of God. It is usually our angel that carries our prayers to God. Even the angel carrying david's prayer was stopped. We can also pray through others like the Holy Mother or a known Saint. Who may carry our prayer to God. We make statues to remember them as loved ones. And we pray through them.

Concerning those who doubt the sonship of Christ: I find it funny when someone says that Christ is not the son of God and funnier seeing them base their claims on the Bible. This is just like saying that a volkswagen is not a car that it is a volkswagen. Christ  never came in public to say that He was the Son of God before the time of His death came. But he told it to His disciples. Also He told Pilate but said nothing to Herod. He never said it before His time because He knew they would  take it as blasphemy which was probably not God wanted. It had been prophesied that a Messiah would come. All the prophecies about the Messiah were fulfilled in Christ and that was exactly the way we were supposed to know. If you worry how a man was the God and yet the Son of God on earth, you will never get anywhere without the wisdom of God, for it is a mystery in our sight.

Concerning those that say the Chaplet is demonic or not supposed to be used:
This is a bit related to the case of giving due respect to the Holy Mother as the Mother of our saviour. The Chaplet was believedly handed over a saint as a guide for us to pray that souls in hell will be released. The praying of the rosary is something done by every known saint. It has saved so many people that went astray and also saved so many people from occultism and demonic bondages. I therefore find it absurd for people to say that it is demonic. The Bible clearly says that "a kingdom can never be divided against itself". There is absolutely no way satan will provide a tool that wrests people away from his chains!

Concerning those that say we do things not in the Bible:
You cannot tell me that what the disciples were doing where things they read from the Bible. We all have brains. And most also have consience. Before you read the Bible, you knew what was right and what was wrong. Anything that is not against the conscience is morally right. And that's why we have it. You can see your conscience as the communication between you and your guardian angel. YOur guardian angel can never mislead you for his work is to guide and protect you. Most choose to strain the communication between them and their guardian angel, thus being able to remain adamant to the truth and knowingly blocking their mind reception of whatever they do not want to hear like some who are reading this will be doing now.

Cocenring those who say there is nothing like Purgatory:
Tell me where the righteous people who died before heaven was opened were staying. They stayed in their tombs because it was not written in the Bible?? The catholic church also has a word for that, "Limbo". It is beleived that's were Christ said He was going after He died and went to release them. Likewise in the Bible both in Romans 2:6 It was also said that "God will render each one according to His works. Since we believe that anyone condemned to hell is eternally condemneed to hell, and anyone has a little stain of sin cannot enter the kingdom of heaven and that God will render everyone according to his works. We believe that one who dies with a venial sin such as anger, hatred, impure thoughts,  e.t.c., which are called venial because man is prone to them will not go to hell, but to a place where he will be purified before entering heaven. This place were the person suffers is where we call purgatory - "to purge". It started after someone believed to have been in purgatory got a trance from a dead person saying: They should continue praying for him, that he has been suffering.

I don't want to go against non-catholics for Christ said, if one is not against us, he is for us. But let me remind you that Peter was the first pope of the Catholic church, and that Christ had same to him. "On you Peter I build my church. The gate of hades shall not open it. To you I give the key of the kingdom of heaven. Everything you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, "

So, when Christ taught you about prayer, he said you should pray using the rosary or through Mary or "guardian angels"?

When the disciples gathered in the Upper Room to receive the Holy Ghost, Mary the mother of Jesus was among them, was she using her name to pray and were the apostles praying through her?

If you claim to be followers of Christ, can you show me anywhere in the Bible where Jesus or any his disciples (including Peter whom you call the first "pope" used graven images in worship?


Friend, you do many things that contradict the Bible. And that's why we don't see you as CHRISTians - because most of the things you do are not from the teachings of Christ or his disciples. Even the doctrine of purgatory is baseless. In the passage you often quote to justify it, the Scripture only mentions people who were disobedient at the time of Noah. It doesn't mention those who existed before then or after it. It never says anyone will go to purgatory; yet you continue to deceive your congregation with it. May God have mercy on you all 

So, when Christ taught you about prayer, he said you should pray using the rosary or through Mary or "guardian angels"?

When the disciples gathered in the Upper Room to receive the Holy Ghost, Mary the mother of Jesus was among them, was she using her name to pray and were the apostles praying through her?

You are clearly among those that block their minds and prefer to stay biased when reading things. You sound as if you don't believe we have guardian angels and as if it is not our guardian angel that carries our prayers to God. Well in Daniels, his prayers were intercepted by the prince of persia and did not reach God for three days. Mary in the Bible whom I believe is now in heaven was still on earth so why do you ask me such a question. We pray through saints simply because we believe that they are in heaven, and we also believe in the communion of the saints.

If you claim to be followers of Christ, can you show me anywhere in the Bible where Jesus or any his disciples (including Peter whom you call the first "pope" used graven images in worship?

Something's definitely blinding you if you cannot even see what I wrote. If you want to argue contradict me. Even peter did not use a Bible. The Bible was written years after he had died, mind you. And I clearly stated why we have statues. WE DO NOT WORSHIP STATUES!

It doesn't mention those who existed before then or after it. It never says anyone will go to purgatory; yet you continue to deceive your congregation with it. May God have mercy on you all

Thanks for reminding me of this one.
Tell me where the righteous people who died before heaven was opened were staying. They stayed in their tombs because it was not written in the Bible?? The catholic church also has a word for that, "Limbo". It is beleived that's were Christ said He was going after He died and went to release them. Likewise in the Bible both in Romans 2:6 It was also said that "God will render each one according to His works. Since we believe that anyone condemned to hell is eternally condemneed to hell, and anyone has a little stain of sin cannot enter the kingdom of heaven and that God will render everyone according to his works. We believe that one who dies with a venial sin such as anger, hatred, impure thoughts, e.t.c., which are called venial because man is prone to them will not go to hell, but to a place where he will be purified before entering heaven. This place were the person suffers is where we call purgatory - "to purge". It started after someone believed to have been in purgatory got a trance from a dead person saying: They should continue praying for him, that he has been suffering.

Tsk tsk tsk. . . Another catholic vs protestant thread. . . *hisses*

Tsk tsk tsk. . . Another catholic vs protestant thread. . . *hisses*

You are clearly among those that block their minds and prefer to stay biased when reading things. You sound as if you don't believe we have guardian angels and as if it is not our guardian angel that carries our prayers to God. Well in Daniels, his prayers were intercepted by the prince of persia and did not reach God for three days. Mary in the Bible whom I believe is now in heaven was still on earth so why do you ask me such a question. We pray through saints simply because we believe that they are in heaven, and we also believe in the communion of the saints.

Now, you're beginning to display the trademark of most Catholics - ignorance of the Scriptures. First, Daniel's prayer was not intercepted by the prince of persia for three days. Daniel's prayer was heard by God the moment he said it. It was the answer that was intercepted for 20 days. Here is the reference:

Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words. But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days. (Daniel 10:12-14).

And still, you didn't answer my question: If you are a follower of Jesus, how did Jesus teach you to pray? Through guardian angels? Through Mary?

And you say you pray through saints because you believe they are in heaven. Are you God? Have you been to heaven?

Before your so-called saints died, were there not others that had gone to heaven before them (e.g Moses and Elisha)? Why didn't Jesus or any of the disciples pray using the names of these people? Who taught you to pray through saints? Where did you get your traditions from, if neither Christ nor the apostles practised what you're doing?

Something's definitely blinding you if you cannot even see what I wrote. If you want to argue contradict me. Even peter did not use a Bible. The Bible was written years after he had died, mind you. And I clearly stated why we have statues. WE DO NOT WORSHIP STATUES!

You should be ashamed of yourself for saying this. So what is the "epistle" or "scripture" being referred to in these places?

"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." (2 Peter 3:15,16).

"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:3; 4).


And what do you do with statues? Did Christ whom you claim to be following use statues in worship?

Thanks for reminding me of this one.
Tell me where the righteous people who died before heaven was opened were staying. They stayed in their tombs because it was not written in the Bible?? The catholic church also has a word for that, "Limbo". It is beleived that's were Christ said He was going after He died and went to release them,

Oh they stayed in their tombs? So how about those who had no tombs? Where did Moses stay? Where did Enoch stay? Where did Elijah stay?

Likewise in the Bible both in Romans 2:6 It was also said that "God will render each one according to His works. Since we believe that anyone condemned to hell is eternally condemneed to hell, and anyone has a little stain of sin cannot enter the kingdom of heaven and that God will render everyone according to his works. We believe that one who dies with a venial sin such as anger, hatred, impure thoughts,  e.t.c., which are called venial because man is prone to them will not go to hell, but to a place where he will be purified before entering heaven. This place were the person suffers is where we call purgatory - "to purge".

I can't help laughing at the absurdity of this hocus pocus And it shows that most of your doctrines are not Bible-based. Where did you get the teaching from the Bible that some sinners will not go to hell. You're basing you beliefs on self-gratifying logic. Who are you to decide which sin man is prone to or not prone to? Man is prone to ALL sins? And Jesus blood is available to purify and deliver you from all sins if you surrender your life to him. If you keep deluding yourselves with your way of reasoning, and continue sinning because you believe there's a second chance after death, the result will be catastrophic. Here is the proof:

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
(Hebrews 10:26-29).

Little children, let no man deceive you, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:7-9)

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:7)


AND YOU MUST READ THIS.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. . . Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (Romans 6:14-18)

So you have no biblical basis to justify sinning with the hope of a phantom purgatory. Jesus came to free us from the power of sin, so we can live righteously. But if we continue sinning, for whatever reasons, the consequence has already been mentioned in the first reference above. That's why it's not just enough to be going to church, be babtised in water or be confessing sin every weekend. You need Jesus in your life to transform you and make you a new creature. (I Corinthians 5:17)

It started after someone believed to have been in purgatory got a trance from a dead person saying: They should continue praying for him, that he has been suffering

LOL. . . a major doctrine of a church started with someone's trance?  

Whose trance? Is this in the Bible?

@Tudor:   I thought you should be airing your views. Don't hide behind words. There is nothing like 'vs.' here. An argument is a reason that somebody uses to show that somethings is correct(Oxford). And in case u're half-blind read the topic again, sorry for adopting harsh words though

@GenGenius: I like guys like you that make very good use of words and chances. You said rightly that the angel of God was intercepted, not david's angel, but you didn't disprove that we all have guardian angels or say why some are allowed to see God and some are not. You also didn't tell me where others except Moses, Elijah and Enoch went. These three are known exceptions. And you say I am ignorant of the Bible yet it is written in the Bible that it was Christ that released those who died righteously before He came. It was Christ that reconciled God and man. And also Christ has no reason to pray through anyone because He was the Son of God. We believe in the communiion of the saints because Christ discussed with them. There was no way they would have came down if He did not communicate with them, but there is also no need of praying through a saint if you are spiritually clean. I do not know how the apostles said their prayers for I never heard they said the Lord's prayer. Whether they believed in the communion of the saints, I do not know but I told you the reason why we do.
As for the Bible , I find it funny when you say I should be ashamed. What do you think the controversy about the Bible was. It is said by so many people and is a largely held debate that the Bible is altered and so many scriptures are not included in it. Emperor constantinople was said to have removed anything that contradicted things done in those old days. There are so many lost scriptures, and there are even those that are not lost, yet they are not included in the Bible. What I simply mean by saying that they did not use the Bible is that they did not use the compiled Book we use today which you are so attached too, yet am sure you have not read up to 10 books of the lost scriptures and you think you are sure you know everything that need to be in the Bible.
I do not like repeating myslef so I won't tell a biased mind what we do with statues for a second time. Read it!
As for your last comment, Let me correct myself "It probably started after that". Thank you for defining venial sins in a more conscise way for me. Venial sins are sins that are not done willfully. Not when you vent willfully or when you lust willfully. Those are what we call venial sins. As for it being 'self-gratifying logic'. I was not given a brain to continue remaining a dunce. God loves those who love wisdom. It was man under the believed guidance of the Holy Spirit that wrote the Bible. Likewise it was man under the guidance of the Holy Spirit that wrote the longest aged catholic doctrine in the faithful church that the Devil wants to wrestle down. Go ahead and talk against the catholic church when you have finished reading my message, for my work is to tell you and not to force you to believe. It is the will of God to make one's heart understand. As I said earlier, dissension does not come from God. So if your church was formed by dissension from the catholic church, it's up to you to do the right thing. You probably do not respect the mother of Christ in anyway neither do you do the consecration frequently so are you the people that do God's will? No wonder you are called protestants. I am not against anyone who is not against us, just sorry

Don't pretend, you didn't see this. I need your comments


Little children, let no man deceive you, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:7-9)

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:7)


AND YOU MUST READ THIS.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. . . Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (Romans 6:14-18)

And still, you haven't answered my question: If you are a follower of Jesus, how did Jesus teach you to pray? Through guardian angels? Through Mary?

And you say you pray through saints because you believe they are in heaven. Are you God? Have you been to heaven?

Before your so-called saints died, were there not others that had gone to heaven before them (e.g Moses and Elisha)? Why didn't Jesus or any of the disciples pray using the names of these people? Who taught you to pray through saints? Where did you get your traditions from, if neither Christ nor the apostles practised what you're doing?

Alas, I thought I will get a reasonable answer this time, you have asked your questions and they've all bean answered. You are just too biased to see it. I wonder what's the wink's for? If you ask me why I believe the Holy Mother is in heaven, I can as well ask you why you believe that the Bible was written under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. When next you pray, pray to God to give you wisdom to understand the Bible. I have answered all your questions but you have not answered any of mine. That clearly tells you are just biased.

Don't pretend, you didn't see this. I need your comments


Little children, let no man deceive you, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:7-9)

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:7)


AND YOU MUST READ THIS.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. . . Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (Romans 6:14-18)

I can as well ask you why you believe that the Bible was written under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

I believe that the Bible was written under the guidance of the Holy Spirit because it's clearly stated in the Scriptures. Where is your own belief stated? Papal laws?

Desist from Idolatry and demon worship in the name of "venerating" saints. All true Christians are saints according to the Bible!

Ha ha. You believe the Bible was written under the guidance of the Holy Spirit because it was written in the Bible. I can't help laughing. I don't have time for such riduclous things. If you feel up to it, explain to me what idolatory is according to the Bible Mr. Bible Freak.

Oh Skydancer o

People are seeing you for who you really are. You claim to be able to defend Catholicism and its many errors, and yet you can't even honestly answer some simple questions posed to you.

What a disgrace!

Bobbyaf:

Oh Skydancer o

People are seeing you for who you really are. You claim to be able to defend Catholicism and its many errors, and yet you can't even honestly answer some simple questions posed to you.

What a disgrace!

Is that all?

In the Bible, Idol worship is worshipping statues as the true and supreme God. Catholics don't do this.