Traditional Anglicans welcome Vatican announcement with joy October 21, 2009

Archbishop John Hepworth, primate of the Traditional Anglican Communion, has issued a statement welcoming Pope Benedict’s decision to permit Anglican communities to join the Catholic Church as communities.

“We are profoundly moved by the generosity of the Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI,” said Archbishop Hepworth. “May I firstly state that this is an act of great goodness on the part of the Holy Father. He has dedicated his pontificate to the cause of unity. It more than matches the dreams we dared to include in our petition of two years ago. It more than matches our prayers. In those two years, we have become very conscious of the prayers of our friends in the Catholic Church. Perhaps their prayers dared to ask even more than ours.”

Archbishop Hepworth continued:

    While we await the full text of the Apostolic Constitution, we are also moved by the pastoral nature of the Notes issued today by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. My fellow bishops have indeed signed the Catechism of the Catholic Church and made a statement about the ministry of the Bishop of Rome, reflecting the words of Pope John Paul II in his letter "Ut Unum Sint" …

    Fortunately, the Statement issued by the Archbishop of Canterbury reflects the understanding that we have gained from him that he does not stand in our way, and understands the decisions that we have reached. Both his reaction and our petition are fruits of a century of prayer for Christian unity, a cause that many times must have seemed forlorn. We now express our gratitude to Archbishop Williams, and have regularly assured him of our prayers. The See of Augustine remains a focus of our pilgrim way, as it was in ages of faith in the past.

    I have made a commitment to the Traditional Anglican Communion that the response of the Holy See will be taken to each of our National Synods. They have already endorsed our pathway. Now the Holy See challenges us to seek in the specific structures that are now available the "full, visible unity, especially Eucharistic communion", for which we have long prayed and about which we have long dreamed. That process will begin at once.

    In the Anglican Office of Morning Prayer, the great Hymn of Thanksgiving, the Te Deum, is part of the daily Order. It is with heartfelt thanks to Almighty God, the Lord and Source of all peace and unity, that the hymn is on our lips today. This is a moment of grace, perhaps even a moment of history, not because the past is undone, but because the past is transformed.

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops also issued a statement welcoming the Vatican announcement.

Thoughts. . . .opinions. . . .?!

The only difference between the catholic church and the Anglican church is that the Queen of England is the head of the Anglican church while the pope is the head of the catholic church. doctrinally they are the same.

Pastor AIO:

The only difference between the catholic church and the Anglican church is that the Queen of England is the head of the Anglican church while the pope is the head of the catholic church. doctrinally they are the same.

That's something I'm reading for the first time. I'm not Anglican; but then I like to read what other people see on various issues. To that end, I wonder if the Anglicans also pray to Mary? I have a few friends (Anglican and Catholic) who disagree on that doctrine though.

That's something I'm reading for the first time. I'm not Anglican; but then I like to read what other people see on various issues. To that end, I wonder if the Anglicans also pray to Mary? I have a few friends (Anglican and Catholic) who disagree on that doctrine though

Roman catholics,Eastern orthodox ,oriental orthodox,anglican and indeed all apostolic churches practise the veneration of saints of which Mary is one

viaro:

That's something I'm reading for the first time. I'm not Anglican; but then I like to read what other people see on various issues. To that end, I wonder if the Anglicans also pray to Mary? I have a few friends (Anglican and Catholic) who disagree on that doctrine though.

Most do not elevate Mary to the same extent as the Catholic rite.

lots of other major differences as well though the basics are similar.

chukwudi44:

Roman catholics,Eastern orthodox ,oriental orthodox,anglican and indeed all apostolic churches practise the veneration of saints of which Mary is one

That's not the same as praying to Mary, is it?

Please pardon my enquiries, as I'm neither Catholic nor Anglican. I happen to have friends that deeply disagree over the matter of praying to Mary, particularly the rite of "worshipping" Mary. The Anglican friend is so bitter about this that he actually left his area in Ireland just to avoid engaging his Catholic friend over this issue. That said, I don't know of any instance of Anglicans praying to Mary, though.

tpia.:

Most do not elevate Mary to the same extent as the Catholic rite.

Okay, I'll note that and do some more search on the matter.

lots of other major differences as well though the basics are similar.

I thought so as well.

Anglicans do not pray to Virgin Mary and they do not practice celibacy among priests and do not have nuns either. But we do have the same doctrine and even pledge allegiance to the catholic church during our catechism prayer.

Anglican use of the Hail Mary

Anglo-Catholics also employ the Hail Mary in devotional practice. Traditional Anglo-Catholics use the prayer in much the same way as the Roman Catholics, including use of the Rosary and the recitation of the Angelus. Many Anglican churches contain statues of the Virgin Mary, and the faithful use devotional prayers including the Hail Mary. However there might be some variations in local usage, reflecting the differing theological leanings of the two bodies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hail_Mary

More prayers to Mary from the Church of england service book can be found here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=jN4wspXqHBkC&pg=PA730&lpg=PA730&dq=alma+redemptoris+mater+anglican&source=bl&ots=ZbO84AQQXk&sig=u5o0Ae5aneOjzU76d_xUraVqQ28&hl=en&ei=0hTgSsyAFoiF4Qac8ogh&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCMQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=&f=false


Here is a dramatization of how King Henry decided the articles of Anglican faith with the help of Will Summers his Court Jester.
http://www.free-tv-video-online.info/player/megavideo.php?id=6YZD0NT5

Fast forward to 25:30 minutes for the scene. 

And 43:50 shows where he hands it over to his clergy. 

For the full series mapping the life of Henry VIII and the rise of the Church of England check here:
http://www.free-tv-video-online.info/internet/the_tudors/season_3.html

Anglo-Catholics also employ the Hail Mary in devotional practice. Traditional Anglo-Catholics use the prayer in much the same way as the Roman Catholics, including use of the Rosary and the recitation of the Angelus. Many Anglican churches contain statues of the Virgin Mary, and the faithful use devotional prayers including the Hail Mary. However there might be some variations in local usage, reflecting the differing theological leanings of the two bodies.

Thanks pastor AIO. I understand that there are still differences in theology between Catholic and Anglican churches. Some sources say that they are doctrinally the same; othe sources see differences in their doctrine. I should commend your effort to share those sources with me (and other readers) - they all help me to better understand what I hitherto had not.

There are differing theological leanings even within the Roman Catholic faith. In the Church of England we have a rough division into what is called the High Church and the Low Church. High Church is pretty much Catholic through and through with all the incense burning and Marian devotions. The Lower churches came about from the influence of the reformers who remained a strong influence in England all the way up until the present day. However, without conducting a statistical survey, I would say off my head that many Church of England members have strong Catholic sympathies, especially in the clergy.

There are no Church of England monasteries or Nuns because Henry VIII made a point of burning them down, not because of any doctrinal reasons but because they had a lot of wealth and Henry was in need of money. That was probably the boldest move he made in his reign and it almost tore the country apart. Okay, the 2nd boldest move. The boldest move would be telling the pope to get lost.
In spite of his boldness there are certain parts of England that no monarch would dare go to mess with their faith. Places like Liverpool which still remains strongly catholic till this day.

while I am waiting for salah time to roll in at 6.01 am in here, I have to take some lectures in from our right reverend Pastor AIO. I am smiling because no one is looking at the big picture; if all these protestants are absorbed back in to catholicism, then what are really the inferences we get and the lessons learnt?

Is protestant really the true Christian or Catholics? I and others have argued for the later and the former was just a rebel without a cause.

What happened to the Protestant Bible, with its incompleteness, lacking so many "books?" It will become a momento, NO?

Where do we go with the protestants calling Catholics "idol worshippers", now they themselves will be exactly the same?

Finally, and without trying to upset anyone; considering that the new catholic, a hybrid of added protestant doctrine of "married clergies", is Cristianity not a religion then of "form it as you go along; always changing and never truly ratified?" The schism or the plot is always moving, ever so slightly. The new millennium ushered in a new dimention, a decade late, almost.


So I woke up this morning, I thank Allah Who gave Muhammad (AS) to finalize Islam, with a completely formed and not changing process, like the others. Guys, you know what I mean.

So I woke up this morning, I thank Allah Who gave Muhammad (AS) to finalize Islam, with a completely formed and not changing process, like the others. Guys, you know what I mean.

I would have chosen to neglect this thread but for olabowales's post. I will want him to know that islam as it is today, has a koran that has so many editions, even in the arabic texts. The various contradictions in the koran I was pointing to him in the thread on islam section (which his brothers edited his posts as well as mine to hide his ignorance) makes koranic claims to divine revelation suspect.

Also, I want olabowale to know that as present, over 150 sects in islam, no need for him coming here to make it appear as if there are no divisions in islam. Some of the major islamic sects are summarised below:

Sunni Muslims


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Sunni Muslims are followers of the Hanifa, Shafi, Hanibal and Malik Schools. They constitute a 90% majority of the believers in Islam, and are considered to be mainstream traditionalists. Because they are comfortable pursuing their faith within secular societies, they have been able to adapt to a variety of national cultures, while following their three sources of law: the Qur'an, Hadith and consensus of Muslims.



The Sunnis are by far the largest sect in the Muslim world. They take the title of Najiyah, meaning those who are being saved. They acknowledge the first four Khalifs as the rightful successors of Muhammad. They received the "six correct books" and belong to one of the schools of jurisprudence founded by the four Imams.



The Sunni emphasize the power and sovereignty of Allah and his right to do whatever he wants with his creation, as strict predeterminism is taught. Its rulership is through the Caliphate, the office of Muslim ruler who is considered the successor to Muhammad. This successor is not through hereditary lineage. The Sunni believe, based on specific provisions of the Qur'an and the Sunna, that the Muslim people are to be governed by consensus (ijma') through an elected head of state, the khalifa, according to democratic principles.




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Shi'ite Muslims


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The Shi'ites (also known as the Ja'firi school) split with the Sunni over the issue of the successor to Muhammad. This split occurred after the assassination of the fourth caliph in 661. Shi'ites believe that the successor to Muhammad should have been Ali, his son in law, and that subsequent successors should have been through his lineage through his wife Fatima. The shi'ites strenuously maintain that they alone are right in their understanding of Islam, and like the Sunnis, they call themselves "al-Muminun," or the "true believers." They believe in the divine right of the successors of 'Ali. His rightful successor is now concealed, they say, but will appear at the end of the world as the "Mahdi," the one rightly guided by Allah, thus able to guide others. They reject the "six correct books" of the Sunnis, and have five collections of their own.



Shi'ism is broken into three main sects. The Twelve-Imam (Persia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Pakistan, and Syria); the Zaydis (Yemen); the Ismailis (India, Iran, Syria, and East Africa). Each group has differences of doctrine.



Shi'ite theology includes a doctrine known as the five supports. These are Divine Unity (tawhid), prophecy (nubuwwah), resurrection of the soul and body at the judgment (ma'ad), the Imamate (imamah), and justice ('adl). The first three are found in Sunni Islam, albeit with some differences of emphasis. The Imamate, however, is the essence of Shi'ism, and the last, justice, is an inheritance from the Mu'tazilites, or rationalists, whose system is in many ways perpetuated in shi'ite theology.



Shi'ites are numerous in Iran, where they have deposed the Shah and in his place, installed the Ayatollah Khomeini and enforced Islamic law as the rule of the government. Khomeini has gone beyond that by declaring that his command is ass good as that of the prophet Muhammad.




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Wahhabis


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The founder of the Wahhabi sect was 'Abd al-Wahhab, born in Nefd in A.D. 1691. He maintained that the Muslims had departed from the precepts of Muhammad. He accepted only the Quran and the Traditions, rejecting the two other foundations, Ijma and Qiyas. He condemned the worship of dead holy men at tombs. He said, "They run there to pay the tribute of their fervent prayers. By this means they think that they can satisfy their spiritual and temporal needs. From what do they seek this benefit? From walls made of mud and stone, from corpses deposited in tombs. the true way of salvation is to prostrate one's self before Him who is ever-present and to venerate Him - the one without associate or equal."



The war cry of the Wahhabis was "Kill and strangle all infidels which give companions to Allah." On the day of battle, the Wahhabi founder gave each soldier a letter addressed to the Treasurer of Paradise. It was enclosed in a bag which the warrior suspended from his neck. The soldier believed that by dying in battle he would go straight to Paradise, without being examined by the angels Munkar and Nakir. Many Iranian prisoners today have confided to their Iraqi captors that they were duped into hanging a small Quran around their necks so they would become invisible in battle and not be seen by their enemies.



The Wahhabis condemn astrology, trusting in omens, and believing in lucky or unlucky days, as well as praying at tombs. They disallow the use of a rosary but attach great merit to counting the ninety-nine names of God on their fingers.




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Suffis


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The meaning of the name Suffi is disputed. Suffis are a Muslim sect that have set aside the literal meaning of the words of Muhammad for a supposed spiritual interpretation. Their system is a Muslim adaptation of the Indian Vedantic philosophy. They believe that only Allah exists. All visible things are really distinct from Him. There is no real difference between good and evil. Allah fixes the will of man. In fact, transmigration is accepted. The principal occupation of the Suffi is meditation on the unity of God and the remembrance of God's name so as to obtain absolution.



Suffis are most numerous in Iran, once called Persia. The three chief Persian poets, Jami, Sa'di, and Hafiz were Suffis who dwelt on love to God. Many of the writings of the Persian Suffis contain indecent passages. The Suffis are divided into innumerable sects which find expression in the numerous order of Faqirs, or Darweshes. Faqirs are divided into two great classes, those who govern their conduct according to the principles of Islam and those who do not, although they all call themselves Muslims.


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Bahaiism


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The Bahai sect began with a man who was born in 1817 in Tehran, Persia, and whose real name was Mirza Hussayn Ali. In 1847 he declared that he was the glory of Allah, "Bahau Allah" from two Arabic words. His acquaintance with a religious movement led by a man called the Bab(Gate) convinced him that he himself was the prophet that the Bab had predicted would appear.



In 1850, the Persian government executed the Bab for his teachings, and Mirza took over the leadership of the movement. In 1863, ten years after he was banished to Baghdad, Bahau Allah declared he was the expected prophet. From 1868 until his death in 1892, he lived in a prison colony in what is now Akka, Israel. He tried to unite the three monotheistic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam through his writings, which comprise 100 volumes.



Bahais believe in good works, nondiscrimination, and a federated world government. Their headquarters are in Haifa, Israel, and they have over 17,000 local counsels, called local spiritual assemblies, with 1,500,000 adherents. Ten percent of them live in India.

you seem to be reading protestant where I wrote Church of England.  There are many protestants churches that will never join the Roman Catholics, not just because of ideology but also the history between them.  For instance I think it will truly be a miracle if the Lutherans ever rejoined the Catholics church.

Thank you, Nezan. It seems people like olabowale are too eager to point fingers where they should be taking care of the division in their own quarters.

Pastor AIO:

you seem to be reading protestant where I wrote Church of England.  There are many protestants churches that will never join the Roman Catholics, not just because of ideology but also the history between them.  For instance I think it will truly be a miracle if the Lutherans ever rejoined the Catholics church.

Well, maybe my mistake. . and I apologise. Again, please forgive my tad ignorance on these issues. My amazements are only borne out of experiences I've had, especially with people close to me, where differences are so rife that buddies could go separate ways geographically. I just don't get it.

However, I don't think I was reading protestant for Church of England, though. The one thing that stands out is that there are both theological and doctrinal differences between and within these denominations. That is not to say that there are no similarities or semblances. In some instances, it seems to me that nothing siginificant could be pointed at as divergent; while in some other instances, the differences are quite pronounced. I think this point was captured quite well in your post #10. Thank you again.

By the way, Nezan: could I contact you concerning this:

Nezan:

I would have chosen to neglect this thread but for olabowales's post. I will want him to know that islam as it is today, has a koran that has so many editions, even in the arabic texts. The various contradictions in the koran I was pointing to him in the thread on islam section (which his brothers edited his posts as well as mine to hide his ignorance) makes koranic claims to divine revelation suspect.

Since my knowledge is quite small on such issues, it would be great if there's a way I could contact you to share more with me privately on the highlight. Is that possible? Thanks.

@viaro; Just click on this:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm

Nezan:

@viaro; Just click on this:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm

Cool. My deep appreciation.

viaro:

Well, maybe my mistake. . and I apologise. Again, please forgive my tad ignorance on these issues. My amazements are only borne out of experiences I've had, especially with people close to me, where differences are so rife that buddies could go separate ways geographically. I just don't get it.

However, I don't think I was reading protestant for Church of England, though. The one thing that stands out is that there are both theological and doctrinal differences between and within these denominations. That is not to say that there are no similarities or semblances. In some instances, it seems to me that nothing siginificant could be pointed at as divergent; while in some other instances, the differences are quite pronounced. I think this point was captured quite well in your post #10. Thank you again.

Sorry, I was writing in reference to Olabowale's post.

Although i was born an anglican and i am ashamed to say it: the truth is that the Anglican Church was born singularly on account of the adultery, blood-lust and greed of a very savage man: King Henry VIII of England.

That's not the best pedigree for a spiritual organization.

Its just unfortunate that Catholic History is rife with even more atrocities than terrorists commit today.

viaro:

That's not the same as praying to Mary, is it?

Please pardon my enquiries, as I'm neither Catholic nor Anglican. I happen to have friends that deeply disagree over the matter of praying to Mary, particularly the rite of "worshipping" Mary. The Anglican friend is so bitter about this that he actually left his area in Ireland just to avoid engaging his Catholic friend over this issue. That said, I don't know of any instance of Anglicans praying to Mary, though.

When Catholics pray to the saints (of which Mary is one) it is only meant as to request for them to pray for us.  The term pray in this context means to make an entreaty or supplication (request). For example, 'Blessed Virgin Mary (i.e., St. Joseph, St. Paul, St. Theresa) pray for me to the Lord our God.  This, in fact, is a prayer (or request) to a saint in heaven, for them to pray to God for us.  We do not worship the Blessed Virgin Mary.  We venerate or honor her and all of the faithful departed (i.e., the saints).  So in effect, you are wrong. . . .praying to Mary and the saints is a form of veneration and it is not worship. Catholics do not worship the Blessed Virgin Mary.

As for Anglican belief/doctrine, there is no official universally held theology within the Anglican Church.  Some Anglican churches (i.e., traditional Anglicans) practice everything and believe in everything the Catholic Churches teaches. While other Anglican churches (i.e., CMS, Episcopal) only share most things in common with the Catholic Church.

So, in essence, the Anglican Church (the Traditional Anglican Church) that is joining the Catholic Church believes in all the teachings of the Church.  The main problem for the pope and church leaders was how to bring in a large body of Christians within the Catholic Church and still allow them to maintain their Anglican way of worship.

So I woke up this morning, I thank Allah Who gave Muhammad (AS) to finalize Islam, with a completely formed and not changing process, like the others. Guys, you know what I mean.

change is a law of nature.

God himself made it so.

Without change, you'd never have made it from an egg to a human being.

sorry if i sound harsh.

Deep Sight:

Although i was born an anglican and i am ashamed to say it: the truth is that the Anglican Church was born singularly on account of the adultery, blood-lust and greed of a very savage man: King Henry VIII of England.

That's not the best pedigree for a spiritual organization.

Its just unfortunate that Catholic History is rife with even more atrocities than terrorists commit today.

true but back in those days society was different.

what about how the US was founded.

besides, its still possible England would have broken off from the Catholic church anyway even without Henry VIII.

Remember Martin Luthor and other "heretics" of the church.

France remained Catholic thanks to the St. Bartholomew's day massacre. All the protestant leaders were invited to Paris to celebrate the wedding of the princess to Henry of Navarre. Once they were all gathered there the catholics organised a mass cleansing/holocaust of protestantism from the land.

The St. Bartholomew's Day massacre (Massacre de la Saint-Barthélemy in French) in 1572 was a targeted group of assassinations, followed by a wave of Roman Catholic mob violence, both directed against the Huguenots (French Calvinist Protestants), during the French Wars of Religion. Traditionally believed to have been instigated by Catherine de' Medici, the mother of King Charles IX, the massacre took place six days after the wedding of the king's sister to the Protestant Henry III of Navarre (the future Henry IV of France). This marriage was an occasion for which many of the most wealthy and prominent Huguenots had gathered in largely Catholic Paris.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartholomew's_Day_massacre

It is my opinion that there are no good guys vs. bad guys in religious wars. Henry was savage, but so was the pope, and so was Martin Luther etc. Politics is a savage game.

Pastor AIO:

It is my opinion that there are no good guys vs. bad guys in religious wars. Henry was savage, but so was the pope, and so was Martin Luther etc. Politics is a savage game.

Amen to that!!

The "good guy" is whoever gets to write the history books.

Omenuko:

So in effect, you are wrong. . . .praying to Mary and the saints is a form of veneration and it is not worship. Catholics do not worship the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Omenuko, thank you for trying to share some insights on my enquiry. You sound like a Catholic (I may be wrong); but I may not be convinced about the bold up there. Anyhow, no fusses. . and my appreciation for your calm attitude to discuss this subject.

_______________________

Pastor AIO:

Sorry, I was writing in reference to Olabowale's post.

My apologies: I didn't realise.

viaro, if you believe answering islam.com, then i ask anyone to show me where any word, a sentence, a chapter in the Quran is written, other than the very only way it is written, be it in hafs, walsh, uthmanic style of writing. if none of you can point out a single one, then know that you have all lied; answering islam, nezan, viaro, etc!

for a person who taught himself, informally how to read Quran, i can read every type of Quranic styllistic writing! there is no word missing or different from its place in any Quran, no letter missing, no sentence missing or different, no verse missing and no chapter missing. therefore your proposed accusation is baseless!

now Pastor AIO: remember i am a muslim and to me, all christians are wholesale the same! church of england or church of enugu are the same to me. i dont live in england and i am not addressing english people alone; but all christians, seeing the unclothedness of your follies!

tpia; changes yes. but when you say that your God changes, then if it is Godly, you would have seen a progression of bad thing/evil thing to finally changing to good thing; as in the Quran's dont drink, dont get involve in out of marriage sex, etc. thats a change you can believe in, unlike biblical chanes; am 1 God to am now 3 gods; 1 man, another ghost and the last is a father on a chair! she o yee e? lol.

@nezan bahia, and others which call themselves muslims are like the church of satan saying that they are chrsitians! how do you like them bad boys?

while muhammad (as) was a muslim, and we claim that Musa and Isa (AS) were muslims, you cant even claim any prophet of Eloi to be christian, my proof of the weak foundation of that "way!" lol.

olabowale:

viaro, if you believe answering islam.com, then i ask anyone to show me where any word, a sentence, a chapter in the Quran is written, other than the very only way it is written, be it in hafs, walsh, uthmanic style of writing. if none of you can point out a single one, then know that you have all lied; answering islam, nezan, viaro, etc!

olabowale, you may have noticed I'm not in the mood of entertaining silly rants from posters like you. I don't have to go to any website to know that there are many muslims who lie to themselves and to everyone; so what the crap are you all about? You jumped into a thread where nobody was counting beads or spreading mats to knock their heads brainless for facing the East while forgetting that Islam is as divided as you are trying to showcase for Christianity. If Nezan never pointed me to any website on what I asked him, are you going to deny the divisions between Muslims in their many sects?

Just crawl back to your kettle and brainless head-knocking exercise with a prospect of 72 virgins. You have a lot to occupy you when you get "there; so don't ever, ever seek to engage me with such illiterate megaphonic self-serving pantomimes.

_{>>viaro hisses<<}

olabowale:


tpia; changes yes. but when you say that your God changes, then if it is Godly, you would have seen a progression of bad thing/evil thing to finally changing to good thing; as in the Quran's dont drink, dont get involve in out of marriage sex, etc. thats a change you can believe in, unlike biblical chanes; am 1 God to am now 3 gods; 1 man, another ghost and the last is a father on a chair! she o yee e? lol.

you're confusing yourself.

@olabowale;

viaro, if you believe answering islam.com, then i ask anyone to show me where any word, a sentence, a chapter in the Quran is written, other than the very only way it is written, be it in hafs, walsh, uthmanic style of writing. if none of you can point out a single one, then know that you have all lied; answering islam, nezan, viaro, etc!

You are referring to the different versions of the arabic koran as differences in style of writing? What of whole vowel variety, differences in the numbering of the verses e.t.c.? You can only confuse fellow muslims . . . if the koran was one, why then the differences in recitation?

@nezan bahia, and others which call themselves muslims are like the church of satan saying that they are chrsitians! how do you like them bad boys?

Who do you think you will play mind games on? How can 'Church of Christ' be the same as church of satan? Do any satanist on this forum ever refer to himself as a Christian? but sunni, shi'te, bahia e.t.c. are traditional muslims, why are you hiding your head in shame, denying them? at least we Christians dont deny our own.