"Follow only what is in the Qur'an and sunan without the scholars! They are not important in understanding the Islamic texts!!"

The individuals hadahumullaah(may Allaah guide them) that make such a statement will always make use of this verse:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ ۖ فَإِن تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا

“O you who believe! Obey Allaah, obey His Messenger, and (obey) those of you who are in authority. If you differ in anything, refer it back to Allah and the Messenger, if you truly believe in Allaah and in the Last Day. That is better and a more suitable outcome.”

via iQuran

These confused individuals assume that -based on their misunderstanding of the Verse- Muslims are required to return the affairs they disagree about back to the Book and the Sunnah, and not to the scholars of Islam, and if you don't this, then your are doing taqleed(blind following) of the scholars.

Because of this misunderstood verse these people understand any connection to the scholars as “blindly following” them. As a result, they actually believe that removing the scholars from their lives is better and even supported in the Quran!

Yes indeed, we refer back to Allaah and His Messenger sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam. But without the scholars? How could we come to this conclusion?

We do not take one Verse and ignore other Verses! Allaah has made returning back to the scholars AN OBLIGATION:

فَاسْأَلُوا أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِن كُنتُمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَ

“so ask the people of knowledge when you do not know.”

وَلَوْ رَدُّوهُ إِلَى الرَّسُولِ وَإِلَىٰ أُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْهُمْ لَعَلِمَهُ الَّذِينَ يَسْتَنبِطُونَهُ مِنْهُمْ

“Had they only referred it back to the Messenger and back to those in authority among them, so that those of them who know how to extract it (the ruling) would have known it…”

Why do these individuals ignore these verses and hold on to the other?

أَفَتُؤْمِنُونَ بِبَعْضِ الْكِتَابِ وَتَكْفُرُونَ بِبَعْضٍ

“Do you believe in part of the Book and disbelieve in other parts?”

A'udhubillaah, Quoting a Verse(the first verse quoted on this thread) which commands us to obey the scholars, thinking it frees us from any obligation to follow them! Such people are clearly confused in their Religion, and obviously incapable of deriving the intended rulings from the Quran themselves.

If we ask them, what differentiates you from other sects that affiliate themselves with Islam? Every one say "we quote from kitaab wa sunnah", then how are you different? They quote kitaab and sunnah truly but understanding what they quote with their whims and desires, so how are you different? Well I don't know about you, but what differentiates the salafi manhaj and other sects that " quote" from kitaab wa sunnah is that, we don't understand these texts as we like or with what conforms with our whims and desires, rather we make sure our understanding of these texts don't contradict the understanding of the salafs, namely: The sahabas, theirs students and the students of their students, these are the salafs.....

Any one who goes against this principle of the salafs, is an innovator! No such thing as "understanding the Quran and sunan on my own" you have to ask, if you don't know the intended meaning, if so, then how is our religion different from Christianity where every one gives the bible his or her own meaning? The sahabas understood Arabic perfectly but would still ask the prophet about the intended meaning of certain words in the Quran, if Allaah uses "dhulm" they will ask for the intended meaning, if Allaah uses "munaafiq" they will ask the intended meaning, and so on. According to your logic, we don't need to ask people of knowledge since everyone can read the Qur'an and sunan?

May Allaah save us from such beliefs.....

^^^

Bros its still the same thing GOD is talking about nah.

GOD said if “ahl zikir“ should deviate, then return back to KITAB & SUNNAH.

Ahl zikir are not infallible, they have desires, they can lie, be sentimental etc

And how do you think the MU‘MINEEN will get to know when the scholars deviate, if they are truly ignorant of the DEEN? or did GOD make a blunder ?

The condition God gave is....

إن كنتم ﻻ تعلمون

“if you know not“

Thats for those that do not know, but for those that do (the MU‘MINEEN), they are to put eyes on “AHL ZIKIR“ & make sure they deviate not.

. ahlusunnah dude don wreak havoc

Empiree:
. ahlusunnah dude don wreak havoc

Laughing . . 2 sufi and a blind f0ll0wer of sch0lar wh0 prefers sch0lars wr0ng fatwa to clear pr00of in quran and also prefer science findings to quran.. a kafir.. 3 kafir

We are to f0ll0w quran and hadith 0nly. . n0t even sahabahs or scholars. . whatever sahabahs says or scholar says, if it has proof fr0m quran or hadith, we must f0ll0w it.. its quran and hadith we are f0ll0wing n0t the sahabahs or scholars..its their proof we f0ll0w . . scholars can make mistake, sahabah can make mistake . . . as l0ng as what you l0ok out f0r in any scholar fatwa or sahabah is proof fr0m quran and hadith..its fine. . . as l0ng as fatwa has proof.. we must obey it.. that abdulkabir ,after clear verse that earth is flat fr0m quran, he quoted a sch0lar who also qu0ted that verse fr0m quran but the sch0lar end up saying earth is r0und..and he abdulkabir believed it..and he abdulkabir even quoted scientist findings to reject the quran verse that earth is flat. . . . and u think u a muslim? tshew . . .AS L0NG AS SCHOLARS BRING PROOF FOR FATWA, WE MUST F0LL0W IT. its proof that we actually f0ll0w n0t the sch0lars . .pj6a

As clear as khawarij matter in hadith is that they a kafir, some scholars believed they are muslim and its wr0ng.. scholars mistakes is itshiad while those who f0ll0w their mistakes after seeing clear proof is doing taklid and that make such person a kafir. . scholars divided bida int0 sin and kufru and they have n0 proof, yet s0me people still f0ll0w that belief even after seeing clear proof, s0me scholars believed that hijab is n0t c0mpulsory which is absolutely wr0ng and they have n0 proof for it and people still f0ll0w the fatwa, same thing on tesubah and eating with sp00n and many other masalah. . . . QURAN AND HADITH is what to look out for in any scholar fatwa . . . . zxgmtp

AhluSunnah:
Laughing . . 2 sufi and a blind f0ll0wer of sch0lar wh0 prefers sch0lars wr0ng fatwa to clear pr00of in quran and also prefer science findings to quran.. a kafir.. 3 kafir

so abdelkabir is also kafir

Empiree:
so abdelkabir is also kafir

Ofcourse. . he is ur brother. . . gdg

AhluSunnah:
Ofcourse. . he is ur brother. . . gdg

what's your evidence of his kufr?

Empiree:
what's your evidence of his kufr?

Check my earlier post or check his p0sts in the flat earth thread..

La hawla wa la wa quwata illa billaah....

في قلوبهم مرض فزادهم الله مرضا

In their hearts is a sickness so Allaah increased them in sickness.....

AhluSunnah:
We are to f0ll0w quran and hadith 0nly. . n0t even sahabahs or scholars. .

Then why do you claim the salafi manhaj? Since you've decided to ignore how the sahabas and those that followed them understand the Islamic texts and prefer your own understanding, then why are you claiming the salafi manhaj I ask again?

whatever sahabahs says or scholar says, if it has proof fr0m quran or hadith, we must f0ll0w it.. its quran and hadith we are f0ll0wing n0t the sahabahs or scholars..its their proof we f0ll0w

What we are saying now is, yes these texts are there, but how do you derive the intended meaning??

Once again Allaah says

وَلَوْ رَدُّوهُ إِلَى الرَّسُولِ وَإِلَىٰ أُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْهُمْ لَعَلِمَهُ الَّذِينَ يَسْتَنبِطُونَهُ مِنْهُمْ

“Had they only referred it back to the Messenger and back to those in authority among them, so that those of them who know how to extract it (the ruling) would have known it…”

. . scholars can make mistake, sahabah can make mistake . . . as l0ng as what you l0ok out f0r in any scholar fatwa or sahabah is proof fr0m quran and hadith..its fine. . . as l0ng as fatwa has proof.. we must obey it.

Yes, they can make mistakes and you don't follow them in their mistake, ibn taymiyyah made a mistake and ibn qayyim said "ya shaykh truth is not with you on this issue", ibn uthaymeen made a mistake and shaykh rabee corrected him, so its not new, what we are saying is how much have you studied to claim you know the meanings of the Qur'an?

. that abdulkabir ,after clear verse that earth is flat fr0m quran, he quoted a sch0lar who also qu0ted that verse fr0m quran but the sch0lar end up saying earth is r0und..and he abdulkabir believed it..and he abdulkabir even quoted scientist findings to reject the quran verse that earth is flat. . . . and u think u a muslim? tshew . . .AS L0NG AS SCHOLARS BRING PROOF FOR FATWA, WE MUST F0LL0W IT. its proof that we actually f0ll0w n0t the sch0lars . .pj6a

I'm not disturbed about this, this Friday a jabata sheep like you saw me in school and was like "anta murji' idhan anta kaafir", that's his problem and yours.....

But,

How will you and your sufi friend in solidarity explain this verse

وَلَوْ رَدُّوهُ إِلَى الرَّسُولِ وَإِلَىٰ أُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْهُمْ لَعَلِمَهُ الَّذِينَ يَسْتَنبِطُونَهُ مِنْهُمْ

“Had they only referred it back to the Messenger and back to those in authority among them, so that those of them who know how to extract it (the ruling) would have known it…”

??

1. ABDULKABIR, I made takfir on you and i gave u why . . . try and prove me wr0ng.. prove my evidence of making takfir of u wr0ng with kitab wa sunnah . . . q0nEL

Abdelkabir . . 2. what i noticed in all of you people that take scholars so evident than quran and hadith is "shahabahs understanding of hadith or quran" . . .my question to you is, where is it that shahabah understands quran or hadith without explanation fr0m rasul (in shubha matters)? ISLAM IS CLEAR. ALMOST EVERY MASALAH HAS CLEAR PROOF.. BIDA,AQEEDAH,KHAWARIJ,MAKING TAKFIR AND SO MANY THINGS . . . . .ITS YOU PEOPLE THAT DO TAKE AFTER THE MISTAKES OF SCHOLARS TO TURN CLEAR MATTER TO SHUBHAH

The one and only most knowledgeable and misttake-proof, just and knee deep in islamic matter scholar of islam is Rasul. . . . .whatever any other scholar says without quoting or referring back to Rasul is absolutely not acceptable. . . THE ONLY PERSON ALLAH SEND TO US TO RASUL. .its either u quote rasul or we reject everything you say. . . AND ALL SCHOLARS DO SAY WE SHOULD NOT FOLLOW THEM BUT THE PROOF THEY BRING TO SUPPORT ANY MASALAH WE SHOULD FOLLOW

Abdelkabir Abdelkabir Abdelkabir . . . how many times did i call you? . . . FOR SOMEONE TO CALL YOU A MURJIA . .its a very bad thing . . but, how come? although you a kafir, but i do not know you are worse to that extent.. well, let me explain who are murjia to you

AhluSunnah:
Abdelkabir . . 2. what i noticed in all of you people that take scholars so evident than quran and hadith is "shahabahs understanding of hadith or quran" . . .my question to you is, where is it that shahabah understands quran or hadith without explanation fr0m rasul (in shubha matters)? ISLAM IS CLEAR. ALMOST EVERY MASALAH HAS CLEAR PROOF.. BIDA,AQEEDAH,KHAWARIJ,MAKING TAKFIR AND SO MANY THINGS . . . . .ITS YOU PEOPLE THAT DO TAKE AFTER THE MISTAKES OF SCHOLARS TO TURN CLEAR MATTER TO SHUBHAH

Explain this verse

وَلَوْ رَدُّوهُ إِلَى الرَّسُولِ وَإِلَىٰ أُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْهُمْ لَعَلِمَهُ الَّذِينَ يَسْتَنبِطُونَهُ مِنْهُمْ

“Had they only referred it back to the Messenger and back to those in authority among them, so that those of them who know how to extract it (the ruling) would have known it…”

Why did Allaah say there are some people who can make instinbaat(extraction of ruling) and some can't?

AhluSunnah:
Abdelk.abir Abde.lkabir Abdel.kabir . . . how many times did i call you? . . . FOR SOMEONE TO CALL YOU A MURJIA . .its a very bad thing . . but, how come? although you a kafir, but i do not know you are worse to that extent.. well, let me explain who are murjia to you

what do you know or how much have you studied to tell me about irja?

I know you'll be playing jabata "lecture" on murjia for you to tell about it....

Ahlusunnah, how many of your family members are Kaafirs? This one you call everyone a Kafir!

Rashduct4luv:
Ahlusunnah, how many of your family members are Kaafirs? This one you call everyone a Kafir!

ASK GOOGLE

AbdelKabir:


what do you know or how much have you studied to tell me about irja?

I know you'll be playing jabata "lecture" on murjia for you to tell about it....

Yes you are right. . but still i do n0t understand who or what a murjia is. . . anyway, wont you repent to ALLAH on your kufru act of placing scholar mistake and science findings over ALLAH clear proof 0 in quran on flat earth?

AbdelKabir:


Explain this verse

وَلَوْ رَدُّوهُ إِلَى الرَّسُولِ وَإِلَىٰ أُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْهُمْ لَعَلِمَهُ الَّذِينَ يَسْتَنبِطُونَهُ مِنْهُمْ

“Had they only referred it back to the Messenger and back to those in authority among them, so that those of them who know how to extract it (the ruling) would have known it…”

Why did Allaah say there are some people who can make instinbaat(extraction of ruling) and some can't?

WHAT IS THE QURAN SURAH AND VERSE..

AhluSunnah:
WHAT IS THE QURAN SURAH AND VERSE..

Why are you asking about the Quran from a "kaafir"?

AbdelKabir:


Why are you asking about the Quran from a "kaafir"?

I am not doing munakoshah with you. . just to do roddu.. bring your shubha proof and i will refute it. . . . . . .so simple. . and if you are correct... i will say you are. . .qmp

AhluSunnah:
I am not doing munakoshah with you. . just to do roddu.. bring your shubha proof and i will refute it. . . . . . .so simple. . and if you are correct... i will say you are. . .qmp

Who is doing niqoosh with you? Its not the way of Ahlus sunnah wal jama'ah to do niqosh with innovators like you and your caller to the gates of hell fire....

Imam as-sabooni in his book Aqeedatus-Salaf Ashaabul-Hadeeth said:

“And they hated Ahlul-Bid`ah, those who introduce into the Religion that which is not from it. They would not love them, nor keep company with them – they would not listen to their speech nor would they sit with them. They would not argue with them about the Religion, and they would not debate with them. And they held that the people should protect their hearing from listening to their falsehood. This falsehood, if it was to reach their hearing and settled in their hearts it would ruin them, and arouse whisperings and dangerous corruption. And regarding this Allaah azza wa jal revealed:

وَإِذَا رَأَيْتَ الَّذِينَ يَخُوضُونَ فِي آيَاتِنَا فَأَعْرِضْ عَنْهُمْ حَتَّىٰ يَخُوضُوا فِي حَدِيثٍ غَيْرِهِ

“And when you see those who engage in [offensive] discourse concerning Our verses, then turn away from them until they enter into another conversation.”


So going back and forth with a coconut head is no longer my thing....

The scholar just said exactly what i say.. . . 2. when a kafir say wr0ng and baseless lies about islam, a muslim must prove te kafir wr0ng. . and that simply means RODDU. 1. make u repent, you dont. .2. make u bring the quran verse you quoted, you didnt. . . . . p. if you like, tell me the quran verse and surah . . if you like, repent and f0ll0w the way of salaf n0t takleed . .verqmp

Lol, his sufi friends?. You didnt see him call everyone keferi?. Since when Jabata lieutenant became sufi friends?. You should rather admit he is giving you your own dose which was quiet unbearable for you

AhluSunnah:
ASK GOOGLE

I know most of your family will be a Kafir too. That's the Jabata ideology! Sharing fire to humanity from Ilorin!

AhluSunnah:
Ofcourse. . he is ur brother. . . gdg

You need to go to Good Madrasah. U Are Sick!

Empiree:
Lol, his sufi friends?. You didnt see him call everyone keferi?. Since when Jabata lieutenant became sufi friends?. You should rather admit he is giving you your own dose which was quiet unbearable for you

I wonder o

Some truths are hard to admit

Atimes one can find wisdom in the saying of a lunatic. Jabata have prooved, even with his half knowledge that, the KITAB & SUNNAH mongers have being worshiping their “scholars“ all this while

The saying that Ahlus sunnah do taqleed did not just started today, this is old speech from some of the People of Innovation (Ahlul Bid’ah) like the ones up there, firstly you don't need to wonder why you were tagged his friend, you are his friend in hypocrisy...... Jabata calls to belittling scholars(this is why he does not even know about shaykh rabee' and he claims to be a shaykh), you on the other hand don't agree with him obviously because all your religion 100% is based on taqleed but because of your agenda you want to understand a verse(and also help the ignoramus) in a way that contradicts the understanding of the salafs, that's hypocrisy......

The famous Ahlul Hadeeth scholar, as-San’aanee has mentioned in his book Irshaadun-Nuqqad Ilaa-Ijtihaad that from some of the People of Innovation who said “You forbid from blind following and yet you blind follow Yahyaa Ibn Ma’een, so if Yahyaa Ibn Ma’een says about a man, ‘He is trustworthy’, you’ll say, ‘Trustworthy’, and if al-Bukhaaree says, ‘This hadeeth is authentic’, you’ll say, ‘It is authentic’. So you are blind followers!”

So as-San’aanee answered this in his tremendous book Irshaadun-Nuqqad Ilaa-Ijtihaad.

He said “Indeed this is not blind following, rather it is only the acceptance of the narration of the trustworthy, and Allaah says in his noble book, ‘O you who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with news, verify it. Lest you should harm a people out of ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful for what you have done.’

So this ayah is understood that if a trustworthy person comes to us, we accept his information.”

ikupakuti:


I wonder o

Some truths are hard to admit

Atimes one can find wisdom in the saying of a lunatic. Jabata have prooved, even with his half knowledge that, the KITAB & SUNNAH mongers have being worshiping their “scholars“ all this while

especially abdelkabir a k a lexiconkabir. He victimized non-salafists here many times. I am the only one who constantly stood up to him in most cases. He even said he would not take knowledge from sufi shuyukh and emphatically said 'abadan'(lae lae). I remembered that. Also said murid are follow follow and accused me of being a muridi.

@abdelkabir

You got all wrong bro,

This isnt a matter of someone bringing some unfounded rumours from no where. Here we talking about religious rulings.

NO any scholar, no matter how “trustworthy“ he appears to be, has an independent say on religious matter & you know that yourself, so dont twist it.

Religious facts is not really about who said what, its about what is said. If the devil should propose a matter with clear backing from KITAB or SUNNAH, it becomes incumbent on all who believe in GOD & his message to obey irrespective of his (devil) personality, coz you are not obeying the devil then, but GOD, & I‘m sure, should an angel tell you to abandon salah you wont dare obey him just coz hes an angel & trustworthy, right ?

Again, this what we talking about, you just quoted another of your scholars, when they say bring proof, you quote scholars. dont religion got meaning without your scholars ?

Just look @ that defense up there ? Just coz you think someone is trustworthy, then you just take whatever he says on a religion that has got its scripture ? Is his trustworthiness the scripture we are supposed to follow ?

So because bukhari said something is geniune, then it automatically becomes so ? Isnt that just his own opinion ?

And we are the one doing bid‘a & taqleed ? Keep amusing yourselves.