nuella2:

You didnt answer my question o? what is prosperity?

 Nuella I did now lol

Arté:
God's idea of prosperity is most evident in the life of His son whom He sent. Was Jesus rich? did he go about preaching prosperity? did he seek to accumulate possessions and fancy cars? Infact what did he tell that rich young man to do? to give away all his wealth!
 
If we are to be christians - which means christ-like, which means to live as Jesus did, why are you chasing after wealth and prosperity when Jesus himself didn't? Jesus only concern was "doing his father's business" and being pleasing to God and we should be and seek the same.

Prosperity in the godly sense is living a christ-like life, growing in the spirit and leading a life that blesses and touches others, pointing them back to God. Who do we look to for example other than Jesus himself? what was his life like?

I dont preach prosperity but i preach salvation, in salvation is properity and and healing. Should i preach sickness and povery because some christians were sick and poor in the bible. Let God be true, i will take Gods report not man.

Of course not. But YOU tried to highlight Abraham as the standard for how God wants us all to be rich and I pointed out that there were many "christians" who were poor.

SALVATION IS A PACKAGE THAT INCLUDE PROSPERITY, HEALTH, PEACE, JOY AND ABOVE ALL THE SAVING OF A MAN(SINNER).

No, salvation is not a "package". It is simply what is says in John 3:16 - That whoever believes in Jesus will not perish but be saved. That is salvation.

Arté:

  Nuella I did now lol Prosperity in the godly sense is living a christ-like life, growing in the spirit and leading a life that blesses and touches others, pointing them back to God. Who do we look to for example other than Jesus himself? what was his life like?
Of course not. But YOU tried to highlight Abraham as the standard for how God wants us all to be rich and I pointed out that there were many "christians" who were poor.
No, salvation is not a "package". It is simply what is says in John 3:16 - That whoever believes in Jesus will not perish but be saved. That is salvation.

So how do we touch and bless others. Was Jesus needy on earth? He was not begging as people where giving to him
Luke 8:3
    And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance. If you say Abraham is not the standard then why are we the seeds of Ahraham? What kind of life did this righteous, prosperous man live. He was blesseth to be a blessing, he was blessed with what? gold,silver,camels name it. The man was wealthy my dear. Jesus died so we can be saved, healed and prosperous, thats is goodnews.

Jesus became poor so that you will remain poor? a thousand times no.
2 Cor. 8:9
    For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
Is for your sake that he was poor so what is wrong in telling a christian that part of the benefit of believing the gospel of our lord Jesus christ.

nuella2:

So how do we touch and bless others.

In the same way Jesus did. By preaching the gospel and serving people.

Was Jesus needy on earth? He was not begging as people where giving to him
Luke 8:3
   And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

 My sister, meeting the everyday physical needs(greatest possible emphasis on NEEDS) of someone is lightyears away from the prosperity gospel of claiming cars and mansions.

If you say Abraham is not the standard then why are we the seeds of Ahraham? What kind of life did this righteous, prosperous man live.

Yet again I remind you what about the prophets of God who were poor? what about the apostles in the NT? were they somehow not living up to the "standard" of material wealth of Abraham?

He was blesseth to be a blessing, he was blessed with what? gold,silver,camels name it. The man was wealthy my dear. Jesus died so we can be saved, healed and prosperous, thats is goodnews.

Again what is really the good news or gospel according to John 3:16?

---

nuella2:

Jesus became poor so that you will remain poor? a thousand times no.
2 Cor. 8:9
    For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
Is for your sake that he was poor so what is wrong in telling a christian that part of the benefit of believing the gospel of our lord Jesus christ.

Lol, so what does it mean when it says Jesus was once "rich" but chose to become poor? Does it mean Jesus was a secret millionaire but chose to instead live like a poor man? or he was rich when he was young and then became poor? please explain.

  or does it simply mean Jesus came down from his exalted position with God in heaven and became "poor" like we are, so that therefore we could - through his sacrifice - become "rich" in spirit as He is/was? Remember I told you human definition of "wealth and rich" is not the same as God's.

Prosperity Gospel = Advanced Fleecing Techniques

@kunleoshob

I just saw your post, thought to ignore it, but on second thought let me drive a few points.

Be very careful the way you talk about this man- this Man of God, Pastor Chris. He is not a demon and he doesn’t teach false gospels. I know him quite well. Believe me; if you really knew him you would love him. Pastor doesn’t like us defending him in fact if he saw your post he’d smile and say good words over you. He does that all the time to his critics.

But let me share a few things with you. I have heard him say personally that no comment centered on attacking his person can annoy him or even get him angry the reason for this in his own words is that- he has abandoned himself, he doesn’t live anymore, Chris is a dead man the man you see now is Christ living in and through me” he’s also fond of saying “I have never met anybody in this world that I haven’t loved, that includes you too. he tells us “if u still get offended by peoples remarks towards you then it means you’re still full of yourself. Doesn’t this remind you of the apostle Paul who said the same in Gal 2:20?

Pastor Chris is the most self less pastor in this world that I know. He is also the most organized. It was only when I joined CE that I found out that he doesn’t live on a salary. The proceeds from the books, tapes, DVDs all go into a church cause. mark my words, not one kobo goes to a personal account. He doesn’t have all this jets, planes, landed property, houses, and cars like many other men of God. His totally sold out for the gospel. When you see him on TV in nice suites and clothes you’d think he’s very flamboyant what you wouldn’t know is before he got there a lot of groaning, intercessions, mourning’s he did in his office for the unsaved. Pastor is so passionate about the unsaved that his ready to exploit every positive means possible to reach out to them. Because though we’re married to principles we’re not married to methods, that’s why God keeps blessing and increasing him giving him people and ideas to further the gospel. This explains our TV ministry, Cyber Ministry etc. he tells us of how he used to go to hospitals as young man in his teens crying and praying for the sick. God loves people who use their lives to make other people. That is who he is. I joined CE after I heard him teach on 1Cor9:19…that message and another called SONS OF CONSOLATION. These messages still keep me in tears when I think of them.


Do you really know what it costs to put a satellite in orbit where people that acquire the decoders don’t pay subscription, hosts TV programmes and subscribe for air time on almost all stations possible, write books and print. When you still pay for the paper, ink etc. yet still sell them at beat down prices so that people can get access to them? If you doubt it compare the quality of the materials and their prices with other ones even abroad .Do you know that of all the partners in our ministry he is still our biggest giver? Last year, a book on the truth about Jesus was published and sent around the world were lies are been perpetuated about the gospel of Jesus. 2million copies were sent- do you know how much it cost? Do you know in 2002-as recent as 2002 on his bday the church worldwide gave him 7million naira as a gift. He used the money to purchase cameras for the technical crew, the same cameras that were used in the 2002 world cup. The church were furious, they thought if the church needed a camera why not tell us and we would contribute and get it but he responded by saying he was responsible too for sowing his own seeds and since they gave the money to him then he could use it as he pleases. Do u know that in 1996 his bday gift was a car? A car? As recent as 1996?

Do you think the tithes are given to him to use? Are you so carnal? Ask yourself one question, before you became a Christian was the kingdom of God not moving forward? I always ask myself this too. Before I joined CE they had programmes on air, they spent a lot of money holding crusades yet in some no offerings were taking. So now that I’m member why would I think it’s my money he is living on? See, they were sometimes that I didn’t pay my tithe and nobody called me to remind me. I was touched; it was like they didn’t even notice because I saw things get better and better. Do you know how many people he gives things to; I mean cars, money, and clothes to on a daily basis? Have you heard about the inner city mission of our church? We feed thousands of children, clothe them, give them free education, teach them a vocational skill-even many under age parents and over aged parents benefit from this. If you don’t know please don’t talk. I know you may want to ask why we don’t show it on TV but you people are the same who would start saying all this “don’t let your right hand see what your left hand is doing rubbish” they say the same about the miracles in our ministry.

I asked you before do you know why Jesus said blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven? What do you think it means to be poor in spirit? Don’t you know that a man can have nice clothes and shoes, a nice wrist watch even cars but still be poor in his spirit? In other words such a person has given up everything spiritually. Even though you could see them with those nice things those things don’t own them anymore. When a need arises in the house of God and they are a bit short they’d willingly give those nice things so that the gospel can move forward. Whether you believe it or not that’s the kind of person Pastor Chris is.

I said all that to tell you that you don’t know the man so stop talking about him that way. I plead with you on this.

@ atre

i really dont know how to go about helping you. i think your case is chronic. no offence man.

you quoted something from proverbs and you said it was the apostle paul solomon that wrote it. good so the real question should be how wealthy was solomon? and please dont give me that ask for wisdom got waelth trash philosophy, because the same solomon wrote that a wise man should make money for himself else his wisdom be despised.Ecc9:15-16.

on the other hand you say sickness is very much endorsed in the bible citing paul, timothy and Job,
please wht does this mean-1peter2:24, i dont understand it! ok what of 3john1:2 or james 5:14 ,
lets really analyse the last, James said is there any sick among you? why did he ask such? is it because it was an anomally for a christian gathering to have sick people in their midst? ok then he said the elders should pray for the sick, right? when the elders are sick who prays for them then? ans, the elders dont get sick. now this elders are not the old folks in the congregation but the people who have so masterd the word that it continually produces results in their lives.

why in the world do you think Jesus came?
please do a research on this, it would amaze you what you would find out.

did i hear you mention Job, please read Job 3:25

paul nko? well please read rom 8:11, so many things i have to say but i think they're precious pearls. too precious to fling away.

finally like bro paul, my prayer for you is that the God of our lord Jesus Christ the father of glory may give unto u the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowlegde of him: the eyes of your understanding being enlightenened:that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints

this is where christianity bites the dust, we cant all be rich, u cant be healthy all the time, u cant always be happy, good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people the list is endless
i dnt believe in religion but i dont have any thing against christians but the version of christianity currently intoxicating the nigerian population is sickening, i took a trip to nigeria last year n i was appaulled to see so many churches n so little progress, in the street where my mother lives there where about 5 churches, and it makes u wonder wat the eff is going on here, i wont push the matter further but the truth is nigerians especially need deliverance frm the stangling grip of the get rich quick messages preached by most churches.
in real life there is no substitute for hard work, research, management good governance etc, pray all u like, fast for 2 months if u like, give all the tithes n offerings, simple economics postulates that max output only comes from efficient use of scarce inputs and certainly not praying on the mountain

mba emeka:

. . . ok then he said the elders should pray for the sick, right? when the elders are sick who prays for them then? ans, the elders dont get sick. now this elders are not the old folks in the congregation but the people who have so masterd the word that it continually produces results in their lives.

Shades of gnosticism; spiritual elitism. . .an entirely false gospel.

2 Co 12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Gal 4:13-14  Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

2 Tim 4:20  Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

Php 2:25-27  Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants. For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.

1Tim 5:23  Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

While no one prays for or desires to be ill, it is a fact that genuine Christians walking in faith will occasionally fall ill as long as we are in this world. And the time is coming when that will not be the case

1 Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

But until then. . .

Titus 2:11-14  For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Well said vivaladiva, some of these folks just don't get it. Conning a poor person to give up his/her last last dime in the name of "sowing" is plan wrong if not sinful. They want to believe what they're being fed about " time to sow and time to harvest".

Matthew 16:26

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

@vivaladiva

No offence lady, but I don’t think you’re in the position to proffer your opinions on this matter because you still see Christianity as a religion. Contrary to what you must have been told or heard it is not.

You said on your last trip to Nigeria there was a proliferation of church buildings with no evident change in the state, right? Then you say everybody can’t be rich, healthy, happy and all what not. Funny as it may seem you are right. Very right. But you see that is because everybody is not a Christian. Every Christian, I repeat, every Christian ought to be in good health, in prosperity, and full of joy. I didn’t come up with the idea God did when he willed the blessings to father Abraham and his seed. The bible clearly states that in Gal 3:16. God willed the blessings not to everybody but specifically to Abraham and his seed. That seed is Christ. When a person gets born-again he becomes in Christ a new creature or species that never existed, his past is deleted a new future awaits him, and that future means if you were poor before, you are now rich, sick before, then you are now healthy, sad before now to have unspeakable joy! That is the gospel! Your sins are removed-blotted out you are now the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Not because of what you did or will do but because of what Christ did. This is too big for the religious mind. How can something be gospel if it is not good news? I didn’t make this up its all in the book. But then again you say you don’t believe it so I really do not blame you.

I do not know what you mean by “prosperity gospel” all I know is the true gospel (whole counsel of it) of our lord Jesus Christ. And the benefits of his death on the cross which every one( Christians should know and tell others)

@ogajim
No Pastor introduced seed sowing God almighty himself did.

Did you ever read about Elijah in the bible? The bible says God was feeding him with meat brought to him by ravens (greediest birds on earth) during a time of farming. Not too long after God told him to leave the place and move to zarephath so that a widow could provide for him. Why did God need to do that he could have just commanded the river to continue flowing and the ravens would continue supplying the meat one may want to ask? Isn’t he God? It’s amazing the way God thinks sometimes because he sent Elijah not to just any widow, God sent him to the one of the poorest.

The prophet got there and asked her to get him some water which she willingly did but when he said can I have some cake she retorted oh no! That’s the last I have I have kept it so that I and my child can eat it and die. The prophet told her to go ahead and do what he had said, after some convincing she obliged. If this were done today tabloids, soft cell magz would write about it and call him a con man fleecing widows (poor ones for the matter) of their meals. They may even caption it “greedy prophet eats poor widow’s mite”

But after she obeyed we know what happened, she got blessed and she ate everyday during the famine-her and her family. Jesus while referring to the story said something remarkable, he said there were many widows in Zarephath at the time. Why was Elijah sent to her? Ans, God knew she would be the only one to respond by faith not with her head. Think of it. It doesn’t make any sense-her last meal! Her last meal! How could the prophet be so wicked, many would have said not knowing the blessings that where to ensue.

Don’t be carnally minded, God didn’t need her help to feed the prophet; he was already doing it before. God just wanted to bless her so he sent the prophet to her. Prophets are sent for us. When we believe them (I mean the true ones) we become prosperous. 2chron 20:20

mba emeka, i dont go to church n i dont intend to, hell i dont even belong to any religion, i would go as far as calling my self an atheist and trust me am doing fabulously welllllll,however i do have bad days n tell u what i embrace my bad days i cherish them cos without bad days i wont appreciate my good days
sometimes am broke, n i have a good old moan, n sometimes when my wallet is heavy i splash out on a new pair of designer sunshades or i threat my self to a new pair of expensive shoes, i might even dine alone at a swanky resturant if i feel like it
my life is wonderful n uncomplicated by religion but somtimes i have a headache or a sorethroat, hell i even come dwn with the flu, i take some pain killers n have a lil lie down====sometimes i wake up feeling fine n sometimes i dont.
if it gets too bad i go to the doctors take a few days off work n have a lie in
my mother is still alive, but i know some day she will die, i too wil die and thats cool. i worry not if there is an after party, to be honest after this party i hope they will let me be cos all i wld want to do is rest in peace
evry one is not swiming in money because not every one is a christian, is one of the most ludacris statement ive ever hear in my entire life. ii would like to talk about politics, economics or even science, but i am too tired and i feel i have wasted my energy enof cos i dont honestly care if u agree with me or nt n that my friend is the beauty of life

The beauty of life is discovering the purpose for your existence and fulfiling it. The ups and down in your life don't have to be there. There is real peace and fulfilment In christ. You can have hold and control on life . Instead of waiting for what tomorow brings , you can determin what tommorow should bring.

Joagbaje:

The beauty of life is discovering the purpose for your existence and fulfiling it. The ups and down in your life don't have to be there. There is real peace and fulfilment In christ. You can have hold and control on life . Instead of waiting for what tomorow brings , you can determin what tommorow should bring.

Sir, as much as I would love to be your assistant pastor, I cannot allow you to make certain comments and get away with it.

"The beauty of life is discovering the purpose for your existence and fulfilling it." Correctomondo 100 per cent. A+++, 1st class honours, I agree and accept.

"The ups and down in your life don't have to be there." This is not true, in fact it is absolutely untrue. Life will always be full of vicissitudes. Life is a rhythm, a to and fro-ing. What you can do is trust that it will all turn out right in the end, but you cannot say that someone will never enter darkness.
The psalmist says that 'yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I shall fear no evil'. He does not say that I will never walk through the valley of the shadow of death.
To follow christ is not an easy thing, It is a going down and a coming up. It is not a merry go round kind of a ride.

20 Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to Jesus with her sons, bowing down and making a request of Him. 21 And He said to her, “What do you wish?” She said to Him, “Command that in Your kingdom these two sons of mine may sit one on Your right and one on Your left.” 22 But Jesus answered, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink?” They said to Him, “We are able.” 23 He said to them, “My cup you shall drink; but to sit on My right and on My left, this is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by My Father.”

Matt 20

If you are a christian then you will share in Christ's passion and there is much scourging and being spat on, and being vilified in it.

'There is real peace and fulfilment In christ.' Correctomondo-o-gba-ye-ismic.

'You can have hold and control on life . Instead of waiting for what tomorow brings , you can determin what tommorow should bring.'
Hmmm. . . This is a trick statement. What do you mean by hold and control? This is true and false but it depends on how you think we determine our tomorrow. What is the methodology?

You are cordially invited to our church crusade

Title - COVENANT DAY OF PROSPERITY.

Theme - DIVINE SPEED AND WISDOM TO WEALTH.

Don't miss this wonderful opportunity to tap into the prosperity blessing Jesus, through his blood has paid for.

It's time to tell the devil. . . NO MORE POVERTY.

I want to buy what i want when i want it.

I want to eat what I want, not what is avialable.

I want to see expansion in my life, I want to a brand new tear rubber car, build my house, travel to America.

This is my portion as a Child of God and i'm ready to take possession.




I did not make the above up. Heard it, read it and witnessed it.

Pretty sad, no? Yet some people have the audacity to tell us there nothing seriously wrong here.

Mr atheists sorry aletheia,

Shades of gnosticism; spiritual elitism. . .an entirely false gospel.You forgot to say docetic and cerithian heresy. Mscheeew!

I know your lot-indeed by their fruits you shall know them.
The types that don’t work the word and then get envious when they see it working in the lives of others.
The types that make the word of God of know effect through their traditions- what they always thought things should be like.
The types that exonerate their experiences over what the word has said.
My dear bro, even if an angel comes to me to tell me that every Christian is supposed to be sick  (occasionally) as long as we are in this world let him be accursed! Let every being be a liar and let Gods word be truth.

For the sake of others that would join this forum let me correct some of your out of context and false teachings.

2 Co 12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

When paul said “thorn in the flesh” he was using a figure of speech.” It’s like a pain in the neck” now this doesn’t mean one has a pain (literarily) in the neck. It just means something was disturbing him, like restricting him, challenging him. You get? Now I know you may want to ask what the thorn in the flesh was, well you have to realize this was his second letter to the church in Corinth. At this point he had been bitten, faced a lot of persecution, distresses etc. he was therefore, weak: infirmed. Not sick as you think. If you observe vs 12 same chapter he said he had powers to do apostolic signs, wonders and mighty deeds while he had this thorn in the flesh proving that it was not an ailment or disease else he would have healed himself.

Gal 4:13-14  Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Same goes here man, temptation here in greek rendering is peirasmos- it doesn’t refer to sickness. It refers to all manner of temptations or trials that Christians face like Satan tempted Jesus or like when Jesus said lead us not into temptation…says nothing about sicknesses.

Php 2:25-27  Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants. For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.

Paul said he had been sick which means he was no longer sick at the point he was writing the letter so it means he got well from something. Hurray! You must have passed a point right? wrong!
Reading vs 30 the bible clearly states it was for the work of Christ that he was nigh unto death implying that he was over worked, because the work of God cannot make a person fall sick. God is not the author of diseases, the devil is. As a leader occasionally I have found myself weak in the flesh while organizing programmes, fasting etc. meaning I was tired and needed some rest not that I was sick. Even the lord Jesus was tired sometimes that he couldn’t even continue his journey; he stopped to have a drink of water. One could be so tired he’d think his going to die. It was just a physical breakdown from being over worked and for resting improperly. Read the chapter in context!

1 Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Now are we the sons of God, not when we go to heaven. Now! We are joint heirs with Christ now! As he is in heaven so are we in this world now! If he cannot get sick in heaven so shall we not get sick on earth now!
It does not appear, not that we are not the sons, but it doesn’t appear.  This means he is referring to physical features- his glorified body the type we’re going to put on on the day of the rapture.

Titus 2:11-14  For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Here referring to the rapture again not saying anything about being sick occasionally till Christ comes, period.

mba Emeka, you are very lucky I am not the man I used to be or else I would have gone Chief Eleyimi on you (ie , Nonsense and ingredient, odendus gbengbendus, baby lawyer, etc) but I won't for the sake of decosum.

The problem with the "prosperity p*i*m*p*s" is that they don't appear to know the meaning of prosperity thereby thinking it only has to do with money, let me ask you this: If you receive your bank statement (konto stand) and see a huge sum of money that just appeared on it, what would you do?

Folks can dream about wealth all they want and get scammed out of the little one they have thinking that God wants every Christian to be wealthy, how about Jesus Christ's admonition to lay up treasure in Heaven as opposed to this World?

@ogajim

I wouldn’t say you’re unwise! I’m tempted to say so but I wouldn’t. It would just be using a euphemism.

I don’t know what you folks mean when you say “prosperity gospel” there’s no such thing to me neither am I an advocate of it. But I’m sure of one thing, and one thing only in this case- nobody, I repeat nobody can preach the gospel of Jesus Christ in its entirety without mentioning that Christ’s death on the cross has brought us prosperity.

Prosperity to me has got nothing to do with having money. I know a lot of people who have a lot of money but are not prospering. But when a prosperous man does anything to make money (cash) he sure does make them because he is a prosperous man.

Jesus was a prosperous man, while on earth. He didn’t need to have all the money in the world to do some of the things he did. He was totally unaware of lack. He had no consciousness of it whatsoever. He fed multitudes, he paid his taxes, he healed the sick. Then he died on the cross for the whole world, descended into hell, defeated the forces of evil, rose again in his glory and said to us Go with all the authority I have, all the authority in heaven and in earth and tell the world I did this for them. Did what for them? That should be the real question.

I’m not so sure you are acquainted with the complete gospel of Jesus Christ. Your attitude tells it all.

How do we lay up treasures for ourselves in heaven and not on earth. Do we throw it up into the sky and hope God catches it and stores it for us? Certainly not. So what does it mean? Well to lay up treasures in heaven is to consecrate fully to God and to help all men who have need. Jesus in concluding said for where your treasure is there will your heart be also. Notice he didn’t say don’t get treasures he said store them in heaven because your heart will be where your treasure is.

My treasure is in the gospel of Jesus Christ and in his kingdom and I am more than ready to spend all I have to make sure every one hears this gospel. What I realized is that the more I give towards the kingdom cause the more I make progress, wax great, move forward and become even greater by the day. Halleluyah!

mba emeka:

@ogajim

I wouldn’t say you’re unwise! I’m tempted to say so but I wouldn’t. It would just be using a euphemism.

I don’t know what you folks mean when you say “prosperity gospel” there’s no such thing to me neither am I an advocate of it. But I’m sure of one thing, and one thing only in this case- nobody, I repeat nobody can preach the gospel of Jesus Christ in its entirety without mentioning that Christ’s death on the cross has brought us prosperity.

Prosperity to me has got nothing to do with having money. I know a lot of people who have a lot of money but are not prospering. But when a prosperous man does anything to make money (cash) he sure does make them because he is a prosperous man.

Jesus was a prosperous man, while on earth. He didn’t need to have all the money in the world to do some of the things he did. He was totally unaware of lack. He had no consciousness of it whatsoever. He fed multitudes, he paid his taxes, he healed the sick. Then he died on the cross for the whole world, descended into hell, defeated the forces of evil, rose again in his glory and said to us Go with all the authority I have, all the authority in heaven and in earth and tell the world I did this for them. Did what for them? That should be the real question.

I’m not so sure you are acquainted with the complete gospel of Jesus Christ. Your attitude tells it all.

How do we lay up treasures for ourselves in heaven and not on earth. Do we throw it up into the sky and hope God catches it and stores it for us? Certainly not. So what does it mean? Well to lay up treasures in heaven is to consecrate fully to God and to help all men who have need. Jesus in concluding said for where your treasure is there will your heart be also. Notice he didn’t say don’t get treasures he said store them in heaven because your heart will be where your treasure is.

My treasure is in the gospel of Jesus Christ and in his kingdom and I am more than ready to spend all I have to make sure every one hears this gospel. What I realized is that the more I give towards the kingdom cause the more I make progress, wax great, move forward and become even greater by the day. Halleluyah!

Please if anyone understood the logic or the argument written here could they please explain it to me because I got lost, especially around the part of laying up treasures in heaven and consecrating to God.

@ pastor AIO

read what your ally ogajim wrote  then youl'd understand the motive behind the post.

everybody cant hear because hearing is indeed a gift.

The word consecrate means to sanctify, set apart, bless, hallow, dedicate etc. hence to consecrate something fully to God is to set that thing apart fully to God.

Jesus said when you give to the poor, you have given me .so it means that when you give the needy you give as unto God and thereby you lay up treasures for yourself in heaven. Also when you give towards the furtherance of the gospel you’re also laying up treasures for yourself. Even as little as giving a cup of cold water in the right spirit will be regarded as laying up treasures.  So how do you give when you have nothing to give? I thought you folks say we should remain at the poor level you where at before you came into Christ.  Doesn’t this imply that the more I have here on earth and give towards the gospel the more treasure I lay up for myself?

That’s the logic, you cannot lay up what you don’t have. You have to have it before you lay it up. Comprendre?

I know you may want to tell me that siver and gold, bla bla blah. But you need to remember that the same apostles made collections for the needy including receiving from a man who sold everything he had (including his expensive piece of land) and then they called him A SON OF CONSOLATION. That’s like indirectly telling him your reward is great in heaven or better still you have a lot of treasures in heaven being laid up for you.

mba Chukwuemeka I am tempted to call you a scammer but I won't

We all used to think wrestling was real those days and spent countless hours following the likes of mighty Igor, Ray Apollon, Mil Mascaras, etc, I don't know how old you are but I think you get my drift that it took us growing up to find out that they were all set up. I don't know that a new guy on the block ( assuming this is not moonlighting by some seasoned NLer)

As Christians, it is our duty and obligation to help those in need where ever you find them be they Christian or not and commit your heart and soul to Jesus Christ and not some man. Jesus Christ himself as our FRIEND gave his life so that we may live and die no more, I don't know what they preach to you at CE, I was out of Nigeria by the time you guys started and I have been to Ewu, think about that for a second ( ).

Serve God only and may his GRACE guide you.

mba emeka:

So how do you give when you have nothing to give? I thought you folks say we should remain at the poor level you where at before you came into Christ. Doesn’t this imply that the more I have here on earth and give towards the gospel the more treasure I lay up for myself?

That’s the logic, you cannot lay up what you don’t have. You have to have it before you lay it up. Comprendre?

It doesn't have to be cash. Rich or poor, there is always something to give. I dont think you will be receiving monetary treasure in heaven either.

mba emeka:


Jesus was a prosperous man, while on earth. He didn’t need to have all the money in the world to do some of the things he did. He was totally unaware of lack. He had no consciousness of it whatsoever. He fed multitudes, he paid his taxes, he healed the sick. Then he died on the cross for the whole world, descended into hell, defeated the forces of evil, rose again in his glory and said to us Go with all the authority I have, all the authority in heaven and in earth and tell the world I did this for them. Did what for them? That should be the real question.

The highlighted above is doctrine from the very darkest pits of hell were it was fed to the demons perpetuating this grave heresy. Jesus never went to hell. This false teaching is another very strong evidence that your pastor is not of God neither does he have the Holy spirit within him, that aprt it is also evidence that he is a poorly trained preacher else he would not be preaching doctrine based on a glaring mis-interpretation of the KJV that any apsiring bible studen should know. The original greek word for the word used as hell in that passage is "hades" which means "grave" or "land of the dead" and certainly NOT hell the way we understand it today talkless of unbiblical fighting and defeating the forces of evil there that your illeterate pastor added to it. If in doubt go and read that passage of going to "hell" from other translation of the bible or get a bible concordance to find out the proper interpretation. Whilst you are it, i suggest you also tell your pastor to go and attend a decent seminary were he can properly learn to read and understand the bible properly instead of forcing his shallow ill informed and fraudulent opinions into it

Jesus was a well to do man and he was never poor,atleast he paid ZAKAT throughout his life on earth

Why so angry?

mba emeka:

Mr atheists sorry aletheia,

Shades of gnosticism; spiritual elitism. . .an entirely false gospel.You forgot to say docetic and cerithian heresy. Mscheeew!

I know your lot-indeed by their fruits you shall know them.
The types that don’t work the word and then get envious when they see it working in the lives of others.
The types that make the word of God of no effect through their traditions- what they always thought things should be like.
The types that exonerate their experiences over what the word has said.
My dear bro, even if an angel comes to me to tell me that every Christian is supposed to be sick (occasionally) as long as we are in this world let him be accursed! Let every being be a liar and let Gods word be truth.

You have described yourself to a tee. . .and called down a curse upon yourself.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

mba emeka:

2 Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

When paul said “thorn in the flesh” he was using a figure of speech.” It’s like a pain in the neck”

You give your own interpretation devoid of what the scripture actually says. Context is important and nothing in the verses suggests a figure of speech. Paul's discussion starts from verse 1 where he begins "it is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. . ." and through verse 5: Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. What does he mean by infirmity? Here is the Greek word translated infirmity:

G769 ἀσθένεια (astheneia) as-then'-i-ah
From G772; feebleness (of body or mind); by implication malady; moral frailty: - disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness.

In trying to make your point you skip on to verse 12, ignoring the following:

2 Co 12:8-10 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Paul makes a distinction between infirmities, reproaches, necessities, persecutions, and distresses.

As for your contention that infirmity refers merely to weakness:

John 5:4-5 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had. And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years. When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?

mba emeka:

Gal 4:13-14 Ye know how through [color=#990000]infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. [/color]

Same goes here man, temptation here in greek rendering is peirasmos- it doesn’t refer to sickness. It refers to all manner of temptations or trials that Christians face like Satan tempted Jesus or like when Jesus said lead us not into temptation…says nothing about sicknesses.

Take off the blinkers and read the verses again. Do you think you can bamboozle us with Greek? You ignore the first part of the verse because it does not accord with your false gospel. So what does "infirmity of the flesh" suggest? BTW sickness can be a temptation. Go read the book of Job.

mba emeka:

Php 2:25-27 Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants. For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.

Paul said he had been sick which means he was no longer sick at the point he was writing the letter so it means he got well from something. Hurray! You must have passed a point right? wrong!
Reading vs 30 the bible clearly states it was for the work of Christ that he was nigh unto death implying that he was over worked, because the work of God cannot make a person fall sick. God is not the author of diseases, the devil is. As a leader occasionally I have found myself weak in the flesh while organizing programmes, fasting etc. meaning I was tired and needed some rest not that I was sick. Even the lord Jesus was tired sometimes that he couldn’t even continue his journey; he stopped to have a drink of water. One could be so tired he’d think his going to die. It was just a physical breakdown from being over worked and for resting improperly. Read the chapter in context!

Quite pathetic how you tried to dodge this one. The point is:
1. Epaphroditus (such a faith filled worker for God)was sick (but you argued that Christians cannot fall sick)
2. You tried to change the argument: I haven''t said sickness is from God.
3. Sickness is not tiredness. The bible uses different words that are specific to describe these two different conditions. kakōs is not kopiaō.

Of course you ignored the verses you couldn't explain away.

2 Tim 4:20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

1 Tim 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Do you ask people to take a little wine when they are tired or you ask them to rest?

Now Elisha did twice as many miracles as Elijah, even his dead bones raise a dead man to life;

2 Ki 13:20-21 And Elisha died, and they buried him. And the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year. And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

But this is written in the bible about him

2 Ki 13:14 Now Elisha was fallen sick of his sickness whereof he died.

Go ahead, tell me he didn't have enough faith.

@ogajim

Enough of the childishness…….

What is WWE- world wrestling entertainment…not world wrestling ministry, but world wrestling entertainment! It was initially called WWF but when they realized that people took it too serious they renamed it WWE. Now I don’t mean to give you a history on wrestling but the point I’m trying to make is that a lie can only be in office for long, it can never be there forever.

CE as a ministry began in the early eighties meaning that if you had left the country before then you must have really missed out on the happenings here, which explains why you have a “soft-cellic” understanding of it. For your information I joined this forum in July 2009 after painstakingly going through all the topics (well almost all).so I know some things about what you believe- at least as it pertains to giving in church in form of tithes, first-fruits, offerings etc. we are all entitled to our beliefs but we must understand that as Christians they must be wholly dependent on the word of God that is revealed to us through his core nature: love.  What this means is that we should study the word by the help of the spirit of God with Gods core nature as a guideline i.e. with love as a guideline.

I’m not ignorant of many false practices and teachings in the house of God but you will never see me post a topic against it neither will I attack propagators of it, because God’s core nature is love. The bible says we know we have passed from death unto life because we love the brethren. Jesus said let the tares and wheat grow together if you try to pluck them out (tares) you’d uproot the wheat with them. On the day of the harvest the tares will be removed first (meaning it’s not the rapture as the church will be taken first during the rapture). Let them grow together God will uproot the false ones himself!

I do not also seek to defend any man; I am only here to defend what I believe. I did not grow up in CE I joined it which means I was somewhere else before joining it but you don’t see me putting up posts about where I was. You see I was observing some of the things done in the place and I realized it wasn’t working so I left to where I felt the word was working- see, I’m like you I don’t like to do or be a part of what isn’t working.

In CE we cannot but put the word of God to work every time. God told us through the apostle Paul to recognize those that labour among us, are over us and admonish us and esteem them very highly in love for their work sake.1thess5:12-13.  It would have been enough to say esteem them, but the word says we are to esteem them very highly in love for their work sake. That’s why we have so much respect for all our pastors not only pastor Chris.

No man of God I have watched or seen directs me more to the Jesus more than Pastor Chris. The point many of his critics don’t know is that Pastor Chris cannot teach you in a mere 30 minutes what he has learnt over time in the presence of God. You’d have to listen to him over time to fully appreciate the message he preaches and teaches.  He is not a “prosperity preacher” and he sure aint a “poverty preacher” too. He teaches the whole counsel of the word and demonstrates (properly) the character of the spirit so that people’s faith would not depend on the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
@zikky

I never said money was the only thing to be given when storing up treasures hence the “cup of cold water “analogy.  In our ministry there are a lot of new members who don’t have material substance like cash to give but they give their time and we always do appreciate it. Many of those who started out like that later on become great givers financially. It’s the word of God working- Jesus said he that is faithful in little is faithful in much and Paul said that God is not unrighteous to forget your labour of love.

@kunleoshob

I don’t think I have the time to start putting it out scripture upon scripture, precept upon precept line upon line for you. No offence man, but I think I’d be giving what is holy to dogs.

I thought you were catholic-you guys recite it in your creed….descended into hell, on the third day he rose again, he ascended into heaven and sitteth at the right of God the father almighty…… Maybe you’re not even a Christian posing as one, lifting scriptures out of place and making doctrines of it. The best theologian I know is Satan, yet his still a devil. It is not enough to have the word in your head let it get to heart/ spirit.

I didn’t intend on making this post this long, I tried to stop but I couldn’t. I guess if you take your time to read it you’d get the point I’m trying to make. Bless you!

mba mba mba Chukwuemeka, you're lucky not to live in Ibadan or else they would have been calling you Su ku emeka ( )

It is sad that you're giving me a wrestling history lesson because of the analogy in my previous post, dude, I can drive up to their headquarters in Stamford CT if I was that inclined, the deceit of that era is what I was alluding to.

I went to high school in that area and the family that owns your Church then were known for Assemblies of God Church and the police commish, so I was not around to witness the birth of "In God's name PLC" but I will be in Nigeria in a few months to see things for myself how far Nigeria has come in this kind of movement which started in the good old USA.

Everything about this kind of movement starts and end with "GIVING", I don't need to tell you about my giving because I am not supposed to but what you need to know is that if "it ain't in the Bible, I ain't doing it", Jesus Christ died/paid the ultimate sacrifice for our sins to SET US FREE and not the bondage of money. The so called poor have a lot to GIVE too despite what your creed might think, giving is not always about money-in fact, money is the least among the things you can give.

I will keep you in my prayers, God bless.

Ogajim/Kunle, certainly you fellas know some posts/posters are worthy enough only to be ignored? Just glance over, shake your head and walk away, praying in your heart that wisdom will arrest the soul at some point before its too late.

mba emeka:



@kunleoshob

I don’t think I have the time to start putting it out scripture upon scripture, precept upon precept line upon line for you. No offence man, but I think I’d be giving what is holy to dogs.

I thought you were catholic-you guys recite it in your creed….descended into hell, on the third day he rose again, he ascended into heaven and sitteth at the right of God the father almighty…… Maybe you’re not even a Christian posing as one, lifting scriptures out of place and making doctrines of it. The best theologian I know is Satan, yet his still a devil. It is not enough to have the word in your head let it get to heart/ spirit.

I didn’t intend on making this post this long, I tried to stop but I couldn’t. I guess if you take your time to read it you’d get the point I’m trying to make. Bless you!

For all intent and purpose i am not catholic even though i respect them a lot more than your deluded/ criminal pentecostal movement that are more interested in people's money than the gospel of Christ. That apart since when did the catholic creed become doctrine in the christian faith. I already pointed out the fallacies of your illeterate and dubiuos pastor, instead of you to address the issues you are busy creating diversions. You better repent and leave that mamon church before pastor chris leads you to his masters in hell. Remember Jesus said even the very elect[chosen ones] would almost be deceived, how much less the the mis-guided elements that form the core of CEC plc congregation. So forget all the smooth talk of Oyaks, it's all prt of the scam. It's called packaging

do not Judge, so that u be not judged. Who made u a judge over any pastor, U re not God, so if u think any pastor, or preacher is doing the wrong thing why don't u leave Him/Her to God. It is more important for u to determine your stand with God, or face the consequences of your action. U better repent, because the bible tells us that all men shall give account of themselves, wheter u re pentecostal, catholic, Methodist or whatever, it does not matter to God. What matters to him is that u accept Christ as your personnal Lord and Saviour, and live right. U should not be so rude and insultive in public Financial prosperity should not be the focus of any true believer cos the bible says seek 1st the kingdom of God, this is the most important thing. My advise to everyone is this: Do not give ur own interpretation to the scriptures, abstain from every appearance of evil, and avoid vain philosophies, and foolish arguments that will lead nowhere. Finnally, ur Pastor cannot save u, only Jesus can. That is why we are to told to test all spirits, and prove all doctrines. If Christ did not say it, Don't do it, and DO NOT PREACH OR TEACH.

The message from the pit of hell is any message that will put people of God in the bondage of what Christ has saved them from. A christian is superior to satan, he should not be under the opression of poverty ,sickness, sin and death.If up till this time some cant understant the simplicity of the gospel, there is not much to say again.

1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Prosperity is not telling people to go after things of life but simply accept what God has given them. That is why you guys need to recieve the holyspirit after being born again. You dont have to labour to have, you just take what God has given you.

1 Cor. 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

But if a man is not yet saved, there is nothing we can do but to pray for eyes of understanding to be opened.

2 Cor. 4:3-4
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: [4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

@ Joagbaje

I'm fully in agreement with all u have said - I can't even add more. I only pray that the eyes of the understanding of those who are rationalising God's Word with the limitation of physical senses, will be opened & their minds enlightened, so that they can come to the knowledge of the Truth - God's Word.

Where do u worship??