NPComplete:


So how do u explain the lack of consensus?
Here we have two guys I respect a lot Sarassin and Billyonaire but both can't seem to agree on what's what. Or the basic tenets of esoterica.
So are we to believe they are both right or they are both wrong?

As a deist, I am a bit inclined to believe the universe is undergirded by certain laws that, when properly studied or understood, could produce supposed supernatural effects. But as a skeptic, I ask myself if any of these practioners can withstand scrutiny.

If we subject them to the same inquiry that we have made of Abrahamic religions, what will we find? It is easy for anyone to come online and make claims or debunk other people's claims; anyone can claim his own esoteric way is the right way and explain it away with bombast, the psychological effect is just too alluring, but can any of them really prove these things?
Can they astra project and tell us, with proof, what otherwise impossible knowledge they were able to glean? Can they really "smoke" someone, like LoJ claimed to be able to do and statistically be right?

I seek knowledge and such knowledge should be well tested and proven for me to believe it. And I think our common apathy towards organize religions make us less likely to dispute what these fringe religions or practices preach.
Trust me, the day any of these guys are able to really show me they can do the things they claim, I will be the first to start following their prescribed method.
We must push them to prove themselves and things like "ignore scoffers" make them look like the organise religion they abhor.

Everything must be questioned and proved.

The lack of consensus could be a case of 7 blind men trying to describe an elephant. Very unlikely in my opinion and in any case would mean that an elephant is present.

Regardless of the differences, there are a lot of similarities in what they all teach and personally that is what I try to focus on.
About scrutiny, I think that the people who really have the real deal have no interest in proving anything to anyone. If anyone is offering you proof of anything, chances are that they are a fraud.
There is a saying in these circles...
WHEN THE STUDENT IS READY, THE MASTER APPEARS.
Perhaps you/we are joust not ready.

Matters may be further complicated by the fact that it is quite hard to distinguish subjective projections and wishful thinking from objective observations. Do you see what is there or just what you want to see?

This in itself can be further complicated by the fact that you can actually influence objectivity whereby what you want and imagine actual becomes what is out there.

There are even some theories that suggest that they are all just projections of the mind.

Heck, there are even theories that all of reality including the physical 'plane' are just a projection of the mind's contents.

Ranchhoddas:
The lack of consensus could be as case of 7 blind men trying to describe an elephant. Very unlikely in my opinion and in any case would mean that an elephant is present.

Regardless of the differences, there are a lot of similarities in what they all teach and personally that is what I try to focus on.
About scrutiny, I think that the people who really have the real deal have no interest in proving anything to anyone. If anyone is offering you proof of anything, chances are that they are a fraud.
They is a saying in these circles...
WHEN THE STUDENT IS READY, THE MASTER APPEARS.
Perhaps you/we are just not ready.

LoJ:

I can't blame them. There is something peculiar about sarassin, and I told him that a few times already, I am still trying to learn how to achieve that too, to the same extent.

Normally, it is possible to "smoke"* someone and sense who he really is, at his core. For that you need something personal, a picture, an audio, etc. Anybody can achieve this, with a little training, some do this better than others however. I can do it, with the writings of someone, even on the internet, and that almost at will.

However, for some reason, Sarassin was (still is) very difficult to "smoke". He is one of the only 2 people here in nairaland (the other one being PastorAIO), I never could "smoke"* from their writing. This is the very reason, why I avoided him for a long time on nairaland, although I was already aware of his writings. It took special circumstances, for me to dare approach him directly.

They say a true mystic, "never attracts attention, and never seeks attention". He truly has achieved that - in my opinion.

*I use the verb "smoke" here for very personal reasons. But I am certain some people here surely understand why my choice of word.

Cheers.

This is an anonymous forum. There is no glory to be earned here. And I am not interested in accolades. Sarassin and I had understandable argument. I think argument is the basis of innovation and science. Which is the reason science has been a good validating tool up to classical physics as it offers proof of concept. From the level of Quantum sciences upwards, the evidence is quite revealing as the tool we need is the core of our existence. Facts hit you like thunder and bullet. You can know the truth when you perceive it.

Sarassin and I, argued and agreed at the end, he came to the realization of my point of view and I, his point of view. If you noted, we did not disagree in principle, we disagreed on the premise of principle.

I was once at that place that Sarassin is, I thought there were positive and negative paths, and indeed they are in the lower density world, so he was right based on his level of operations and research and I have gone past that level in my research. At the level I am now, which is directly connecting to Singularity, the Zero Point Field, this is where Science and Spirituality fuses and becomes one body of knowledge, not spirit science, but a little beyond that.

I have more to share, some are very startling, but very very empowering and liberating, but I can understand why it should not be exposed to the entire populace.

I have gotten to that point that we do not have to expose real hard truth, cos humanity has not loved each other enough to gain this knowledge without raising the decibel of chaos.

Now I understand the reason the occult organization kept it sealed and let the entire populace run around like slaves. I can guarantee us that if the entire populace know the core truth, most humans will not go to their paid jobs tomorrow morning.

Truth is sometimes dangerous, needless to say, they will not even believe you.

Sarassin is doing a great job, but I really do not think it is necessary to expose the dark side to the public. Let us only expose how to material our desires, and how to love. Cos destruction is the easiest thing to do, construction takes much more resources.

Chubhie:

The Pleiades directed my fingers to the thread.Such a thread would be incomplete without your inputs laced with humor. I LOL at the part you replied about the OP dancing naked in the streets of sir-Lanka. Friends thought I just got high on soft drinks!

I'm a lil fragmented between balancing work and advancing the soul simultaneously. I pray the Pleiades would grant my wish of some diamonds on their next visits.LOL!

Hope irma no reach your end?

How does one establish contact with the Pleiades?

NPComplete:


So how do u explain the lack of consensus?
Here we have two guys I respect a lot Sarassin and Billyonaire but both can't seem to agree on what's what. Or the basic tenets of esoterica.
So are we to believe they are both right or they are both wrong?

As a deist, I am a bit inclined to believe the universe is undergirded by certain laws that, when properly studied or understood, could produce supposed supernatural effects. But as a skeptic, I ask myself if any of these practioners can withstand scrutiny.

If we subject them to the same inquiry that we have made of Abrahamic religions, what will we find? It is easy for anyone to come online and make claims or debunk other people's claims; anyone can claim his own esoteric way is the right way and explain it away with bombast, the psychological effect is just too alluring, but can any of them really prove these things?
Can they astra project and tell us, with proof, what otherwise impossible knowledge they were able to glean? Can they really "smoke" someone, like LoJ claimed to be able to do and statistically be right?

I seek knowledge and such knowledge should be well tested and proven for me to believe it. And I think our common apathy towards organize religions make us less likely to dispute what these fringe religions or practices preach.
Trust me, the day any of these guys are able to really show me they can do the things they claim, I will be the first to start following their prescribed method.
We must push them to prove themselves and things like "ignore scoffers" make them look like the organise religion they abhor.

Everything must be questioned and proved.

You make very important points and I would like to weigh in. Personally I could never claim that my way is best, what I say is that my way works for me, ultimately we each have to find our own paths to the Divine. In my view if there were to be consensus say between Billyonaire and I then it should be rightly regarded with suspicion. I don’t know the path that he has trodden I can speak only of mine but they are bound to be different therefore our experiences differ. Even so there are universal truths buried in our differences.

For me Spirituality is about doing because to do is to know. But many will not do. For instance, Tantra (and no I am not advocating) teaches us that there are 112 methods to have a Divine Encounter and that one of these methods will work for each and every person on the planet, will the sceptic seek out a method that works for him/her? No, it is far easier to say the supernatural does not exist or God does not grow amputee’s limbs but the real question is do you as an individual wish to grow?

I have been where you are at, people with gifts and abilities you mentioned here (and I include LoJ) give their time generously to humanity they have far bigger fish to fry. If you have subjected the Abrahamic faiths to scrutiny and found them wanting, then try another faith, another doctrine another system. Everyone had a good laugh when I wrote that I romped around in my birthday suit but that was how I sought knowledge with humility, at other times I have obtained knowledge almost at the point of extremis, sometimes that is what it takes, trust me when I say it is almost laughable when a seeker then turns around and says..."I want to be convinced".

When you have exhausted every method in practice that you can conceivably lay your hands on, every doctrine and system and you have not found an experience with God or whatever you seek then you start all over again. Nobody can do it for you, but you.

PastorAIO:

Matters may be further complicated by the fact that it is quite hard to distinguish subjective projections and wishful thinking from objective observations. Do you see what is there or just what you want to see?

This in itself can be further complicated by the fact that you can actually influence objectivity whereby what you want and imagine actual becomes what is out there.

There are even some theories that suggest that they are all just projections of the mind.

Heck, there are even theories that all of reality including the physical 'plane' are just a projection of the mind's contents.

Lol.
You are right.
It almost makes atheism comfortable.

Goddys:
How does one establish contact with the Pleiades?

Matthew 6:33

We have so far established a rudimentary working knowledge of the 3 levels of cosmic awareness and their correspondence to the human state. Within the two lower realms there are various subtle sub-divisions, for the sake of simplicity I have made arbitrary distinctions between levels where certain elements and beings are to be found, the distinctions are mine, there are more gradations within these levels depending entirely on the operation the practitioner is trying to effect. Some of the beings in these stratum are so rare that one cannot fathom them, they do not ordinarily make themselves available to us but a bit like some of the elements in our periodic chemical table, we know these beings are there by their signatures, their footprints if you will.

Different supernatural, magickal and religious cultures have developed over time with wildly differing methods of operation but the key to effective operation whether in supernatural work, divinatory work, visualisation or even faith based religious prayer lies in understanding the relationship between the 3 realms and one’s work.

As a practical example take an average Vodoun practitioner or a bog standard Babala.wo most of their work is done by appealing directly to the Divine realm (Level 1) through prayer and invocation and then channelling that directly into the Material world of Level 3 in the form of powders, candles, amulets, talismans, offerings e.t.c. Although they do sometimes work with spirits, there is very little about working with energies of the body or astral forms, in that instance the Ethereal realm (Level 2) is of less concern.

On the other hand In Western Magickal systems, there is also an emphasis on the Divine Realm of Level 1 through prayer and invocation, but the Ethereal realms of Level 2 are also very prominent through the taking of astral forms and channelling of energy through visualising things like pentagrams and such. The material component of Level 3 is present in the use of certain tools but it is not stressed as in the practitioners above.

Yet still, some practitioners will rely on just one aspect , for instance as in prayers directed at the Divine realm only. This can be extremely powerful if done by a ‘gifted’ priest or otherwise a large crowd praying in concert.

Sarassin:


You make very important points and I would like to weigh in. Personally I could never claim that my way is best, what I say is that my way works for me, ultimately we each have to find our own paths to the Divine. In my view if there were to be consensus say between Billyonaire and I then it should be rightly regarded with suspicion. I don’t know the path that he has trodden I can speak only of mine but they are bound to be different therefore our experiences differ. Even so there are universal truths buried in our differences.

For me Spirituality is about doing because to do is to know. But many will not do. For instance, Tantra (and no I am not advocating) teaches us that there are 112 methods to have a Divine Encounter and that one of these methods will work for each and every person on the planet, will the sceptic seek out a method that works for him/her? No, it is far easier to say the supernatural does not exist or God not grow amputee’s limbs but the real question is do you as an individual wish to grow?

I have been where you are at, people with gifts and abilities you mentioned here (and I include LoJ) give their time generously to humanity they have far bigger fish to fry. If you have subjected the Abrahamic faiths to scrutiny and found them wanting, then try another faith, another doctrine another system. Everyone had a good laugh when I wrote that I romped around in my birthday suit but that was how I sought knowledge with humility, at other times I have obtained knowledge almost at the point of extremis, sometimes that is what it takes, trust me when I say it is almost laughable when a seeker then turns around and says..."I want to be convinced".

When you have exhausted every method in practice that you can conceivably lay your hands on, every doctrine and system and you have not found an experience with God or whatever you seek then you start all over again. Nobody can do it for you, but you.

l guess quoting you may mean too right to be appreciated, Buddha made the same statement, that there are thousand colours to the very light which everyone trailing the path of wisdom seeks. His words " the light we seeks is formless, colorless and of thousand colours , connecting with it is life and death, for it can cook one's recipe as fast as it can burn him in a slightest mistake.There in the light are the abode of the gods, it's life giving and death bringing flame he said ". In tantra, we also heard of lotus of thousand petals representing the routes to the divine light or highest aspect of it.Every religion, believe system , has their broadways to the same light including atheists and scientists. We all seeks for the same light through different route with varied perspectives.what one does with it matters to no one since it is meleable and can take shape and form given to it by any practitioner.Now questions remains, why should we resort in the classification of this very light as middle, white, neutral , right , left or black? Ponder a bit and think for yourself. However, reverting to the law of polarity, where everything on earth and beyond has it's pairs of opposite, we ask, if there is indeed the light , named God by the pontiffs or religionist,there is indeed the counter-light " the darkness " give it any name or by no name at all , call it shadow, it will be fine.This is where the scientists got lost because it's completely dark and brimes with danger, no aspect of it can be proved or subjected to scientific scrutiny. It's as difficult as that, yet an ultimate creating and destructive power of the universe, a force of supreme majesty.It took Alan wolf sixty five years to return back to the world of magick and mysticism when all the scientific approaches has failed him.The relationship between magic and science can be verified in one hand and not in the other.... pause a bit and sip a cold drink and you will get where lam.How l wish, l'm a mystic teacher, but it's n't within my power right now. This covers the little l need to say while l urge you to keep on, on self purification and sanctification for when the body and soul is pure ( it's uncalled-for to add wine of the gods on broken bottle) the spirit and teachers will arrive and take position.

Billyonaire:
This is an anonymous forum. There is no glory to be earned here.

Hello Billyonaire,

First off, I was not referring to you in that post. Mind you, I know more about you than you imagine.

Second, I do think you assign an unnecessary moral value to positive and negative, right and left paths, as described by sarassin, and that is the basis for the misunderstanding. Right path does not mean morally superior, or good, pure in religious terms. In the same vein, left does not imply bad or impure again in religious terms.

There is no good or bad, there is right and left, there is positive and negative, both struggling against the other, in an eternal dance and fight, like best enemies, in a bid to achieve equilibrium. Both are necessary, both are complimentary, but are opposite at the same time.

Therein lies the basis of the misunderstanding, and thus the misunderstanding was yours. As per the rest of your post, I really wish not to comment.

Peace profound.

butterflylion:


Oh they surely are

Rejection of God is simply Satanism in its purest form. Consider these comments by the OP and how the atheists are all drooling over it.

You can see the atheists making comments like "great respect " to the OP or "Great thread" or "So sweet"

This thread should be calledTHE GATHERING OF THE DAMNED!

@bolded, surprisingly you are on the DAMNED thread.

I maintain my stance here as elsewhere, that we are all atheists, for there is an aspect of the divine we don't believe in probably because we don't understand or don't want to understand.

As for the OP, the words of Ecclesiastes 7:16-17 comes to mind.

NPComplete:


So how do u explain the lack of consensus?
Here we have two guys I respect a lot Sarassin and Billyonaire but both can't seem to agree on what's what. Or the basic tenets of esoterica.
So are we to believe they are both right or they are both wrong?

As a deist, I am a bit inclined to believe the universe is undergirded by certain laws that, when properly studied or understood, could produce supposed supernatural effects. But as a skeptic, I ask myself if any of these practioners can withstand scrutiny.

If we subject them to the same inquiry that we have made of Abrahamic religions, what will we find? It is easy for anyone to come online and make claims or debunk other people's claims; anyone can claim his own esoteric way is the right way and explain it away with bombast, the psychological effect is just too alluring, but can any of them really prove these things?
Can they astra project and tell us, with proof, what otherwise impossible knowledge they were able to glean? Can they really "smoke" someone, like LoJ claimed to be able to do and statistically be right?

I seek knowledge and such knowledge should be well tested and proven for me to believe it. And I think our common apathy towards organize religions make us less likely to dispute what these fringe religions or practices preach.
Trust me, the day any of these guys are able to really show me they can do the things they claim, I will be the first to start following their prescribed method.
We must push them to prove themselves and things like "ignore scoffers" make them look like the organise religion they abhor.

Everything must be questioned and proved.

The thing is, we question the proofs provided by others untill we prove it for ourselves, then our questioning in that regard ends but others starts questioning what we claim to prove to ourselves.

LoJ:

Hello Billyonaire,

First off, I was not referring to you in that post. Mind you, I know more about you than you imagine.

Second, I do think you assign an unnecessary moral value to positive and negative, right and left paths, as described by sarassin, and that is the basis for the misunderstanding. Right path does not mean morally superior, or good, pure in religious terms. In the same vein, left does not imply bad or impure again in religious terms.

There is no good or bad, there is right and left, there is positive and negative, both struggling against the other, in an eternal dance and fight, like best enemies, in a bid to achieve equilibrium. Both are necessary, both are complimentary, but are opposite at the same time.

Therein lies the basis of the misunderstanding, and thus the misunderstanding was yours. As per the rest of your post, I really wish not to comment.

Peace profound.

Of course, it is possible you can know me, even more than I know myself. And I am excited that I put myself on the line to express the real me in the inside, the real aspect of me that continues on the journey of becoming my greatest version.

I trust that you understand that you are right, Positive and Negative are attributes of nature, but let us remember, as it is one thing that becomes the two. At the core of it all is Unity, unity of polarity. I am not saying there is no positive and negative polarity in energy, but I am saying, that there is no negative 'path' in nature. People can decide to tread an all negative command and form a group whose ideal is just to do evil, nature never designed that path. It is behavior, a chosen and desired state of mind. No one is naturally negative and designed to follow negative path.

What I am saying is, that there is no set path, that we are all instruments and devices capable of integrating all forms of energy both positive and negative and there is no path ever created and dedicated to the negatives. Take for instance Lucifer, at the Garden of Eden in the Allegory of Creation; Satan gave a good advice, that Eve and Adam should eat the fruit and become wise as the Gods. But the God (ETs) that put the man and woman there wanted them to be mere robots and botnets to be controlled, but Lucifer the one we call bad, actually opened up the truth. That was an illustration about goodness coming out from a perceived bad guy.

Energy has its polarity, you can choose how to use it. If you choose to follow the creed established by the negative archons, it is understandable, but even Archons help Shamans perform healing and even Shamans also get assistance of positive ETs to do acts of good.

We must balance the forces to even our odds.

May we prosper even as we conquer more knowledge.

Billyonaire:
...

Thank you, I agree with what you said.

only wish to add, for the sake of the readers, that Lucifer (or whatever they call him) is not bad. Anyone that experiences him knows that he is one of the best teachers around. My christian friends should read that story upside down (a bit like that of the prodigal son) to uncover the mysteries hidden therein.

Billyonaire:
May we prosper even as we conquer more knowledge.

So mote it be.

menxer:

@bolded, surprisingly you are on the DAMNED thread.

I maintain my stance here as elsewhere, that we are all atheists, for there is an aspect of the divine we don't believe in probably because we don't understand or don't want to understand.

As for the OP, the words of Ecclesiastes 7:16-17 comes to mind.

Lol you know whats funny ? we are in a fallen world ( very evident ) and in a fallen world everything is upside down. all the words we use have been turned upside down so in actuality when you say north it really means south. so some entities have gone through the tedious process of ensuring that everything is upside down. I say all that to say that I am into esoteric etymology and I have just now broken down the meaning of THEIST and it actually means ' a spiritually dead unbeliever. while ATHEIST means someone full of grace and in sync with GODS ways. so in actuality we are the ATHEISTS and you are the THEISTS

ISAIAH 29 VS 16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay:

IF YOU ALL KNEW THE REAL AND TRUE MEANING OF THE WORDS YOU USE EVERYDAY YOU WILL FLIP-OUT. THE WORDS HAVE BEEN TURNED UPSIDE DOWN SO THAT YOU ARE CASTING SPELLS ON YOURSELF WHEN YOU UTTER THESE WORDS INTO THE COSMOS. THE DEVIL IS VERY POWERFUL LOL

LoJ:

Thank you, I agree with what you said.

only wish to add, for the sake of the readers, that Lucifer (or whatever they call him) is not bad. Anyone that experiences him knows that he is one of the best teachers around. My christian friends should read that story upside down (a bit like that of the prodigal son) to uncover the mysteries hidden therein.


So mote it be.

Of course Lucifer is not bad. Our perception of his 'badness' has been passed down for generations by religions without even analyzing which bad act he committed.

Lucifer, from the Allegories is this guy that is punished for being too close and friendly to Humans. We were designed to be botnets, but Lucifer advised us to 'eat the fruit' that enables us activate the neural lace between our robotic organism with the Universe energy field of consciousness. Now we are aware and we are being integrated to our cosmic family.

Lucifer is even taunted to be thrown down from Heaven, in another allegory. His Crime ? He was too close to Man and has revealed the Secrets of the Gods to Man, so he was thrown into the abyss with a shout of 'woe unto men'. We were punished in that story, not by Lucifer but by the God figure.

I could write a thesis that can not be proven wrong about the fact that we can easily be fooled by mass indoctrination. There is no record in the Bible that shows this Lucifer guys doing bad things. It has always been the God figure that really commanded Israel's Army to Kill Philistines. His other children.

These are allegories ofcourse, and it was a great story to explain the universe to those people of that generation who had no ability to understand energy fields and the wave, vibration and inter dimensional nature of the Universe, just as the same way, the Quantum Science is being used to explain the universe today.

Let us not form a school of thoughts out of an allegory, these are just stories that were designed for people of that generation and it works.

Good and Bad are opposites of the same thing. God and Satan are opposites of the same thing. That thing is what was, what is, and what will ever be.

That thing is what sees when we open our eyes, and what enjoys when we have sex. That thing is what reads this message. That thing is what is in all of us, and what is in plants, what is in ETs and what is in all and becomes all. That thing is what we need to agree on.

That thing, is what we are. A giant ball with pin-holes. Peeping through those holes are our eyes. That world happens in us. We are merely peeping outside the pinholes cos we are it.

menxer:

As for the OP, the words of Ecclesiastes 7:16-17 comes to mind.

I suppose your reference of Ecclesiastes is a not too subtle dig at me. Thanks for your concern but it is not solicited. As for your stance that 'we are all atheists I rather think you should speak for yourself, don't you agree?

but let us remember, as it is one thing that becomes the two. At the core of it all is Unity, unity of polarity. I am not saying there is no positive and negative polarity in energy, Hehehe......l hope you should disagree to agree and learn what may give you a flip of turn to gain more.. ...At the end of it all , there is disintegration and unity which the magician will either choose to merge with God or to become a God and create his own universe....Perhaps you has explored the "light" which the compulsory end is unit, can you peep and observe the "darkness" if there should be more to it, l think you will agree. Billyonaire, sciences has limitations to what magic should give you because it requires evidence /proof to embark in action. I know many of the scientist who approached magic through testing and observations, and failure was the result .However, when you approach the darker side of the universe, there in the darkness is an infinity light that transforms gross into gold......that is the world power , coming in contact with it makes you a God, a creator of an exceptional power while you may still be in your human flesh and soul.In fact, there are more to it than the little we have seen.

smartn09:
but let us remember, as it is one thing that becomes the two. At the core of it all is Unity, unity of polarity. I am not saying there is no positive and negative polarity in energy, Hehehe......l hope you should disagree to agree and learn what may give you a flip of turn to gain more.. ...At the end of it all , there is disintegration and unity which the magician will either choose to merge with God or to become a God and create his own universe....Perhaps you has explored the "light" which the compulsory end is unit, can you peep and observe the "darkness" if there should be more to it, l think you will agree. Billyonaire, sciences has limitations to what magic should give you because it requires evidence /proof to embark in action. I know many of the scientist who approached magic through testing and observations, and failure was the result .However, when you approach the darker side of the universe, there in the darkness is an infinity light that transforms gross into gold......that is the world power , coming in contact with it makes you a God, a creator of an exceptional power while you may still be in your human flesh and soul.In fact, there are more to it than the little we have seen.

Your definitions of magic, and when I say 'your' I mean plural for all those who think of magic as purely negatives are wrong. The erroneous perception that Magic is a negative path is where you are having the confusion.

Jesus, in the allegory turned water into wine, that was magic. I love magic and many people love magic, but alluding that Magic is negative is what scares the shiit out of people. If your Magic heals and invents, then it is positive. But if your magic destroys and kills, then it is negative. It is the User Agent, that decides how to browse the Universe and how the cookies crumble.

Magic is transmutation of Universal Energies to achieve desired intentions. The outcome and expectation is yours to decide if its positve or native. Magic is not a negative action, neither is it purely positive. It is a naturally neutral action in nature that is conjured to work as you desire.

May we prosper even as we use the Laws of Nature for the good of the all Creation.

Billyonaire:
Your definitions of magic, and when I say 'your' I mean plural for all those who think of magic as purely negatives are wrong.
The erroneous perception that Magic is a negative path is where you are having the confusion.
Jesus, in the allegory turned water into wine, that was magic.
I love magic and many people love magic, but alluding that Magic is negative is what scares the shiit out of people.
If your Magic heals and invents, then it is positive. But if your magic destroys and kills, then it is negative.
It is the User Agent, that decides how to browse the Universe and how the cookies crumble.

Magic is transmutation of Universal Energies to achieve desired intentions. The outcome and expectation is yours to decide if its positve or native. Magic is not a negative action, neither is it purely positive. It is a naturally neutral action in nature that is conjured to work as you desire.

May we prosper even as we use the Laws of Nature for the good of the all Creation.

¹Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king,
magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem,
²saying, ‘Where is He who has been born King of the Jews?
For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”
- Matthew 2:1-2

"Belteshazzar, (i.e. Daniel) chief of the magicians,
because I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in you,
and no secret troubles you,
tell me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and its interpretation
- Daniel 4:9

MuttleyLaff:
¹Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king,
magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem,
²saying, ‘Where is He who has been born King of the Jews?
For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”
- Matthew 2:1-2

"Belteshazzar, (i.e. Daniel) chief of the magicians,
because I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in you,
and no secret troubles you,
tell me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and its interpretation
- Daniel 4:9

Excellent. Thanks for the input.

We must not fall for the temptation of thinking Magic is negative Path. Magic is Universal, its application can be positive or negative.

Ranchhoddas:
The author of this thread isn't an atheist. He does not get "delusional over what isn't their business and what they claim does not exist".
So why have you chosen to be a Jackass on his thread?

You just indicated that you are delusional and a Jack Ass for always jumping into Christian threads to insult their non existing God.

Billyonaire:


Your definitions of magic, and when I say 'your' I mean plural for all those who think of magic as purely negatives are wrong. The erroneous perception that Magic is a negative path is where you are having the confusion.

Jesus, in the allegory turned water into wine, that was magic. I love magic and many people love magic, but alluding that Magic is negative is what scares the shiit out of people. If your Magic heals and invents, then it is positive. But if your magic destroys and kills, then it is negative. It is the User Agent, that decides how to browse the Universe and how the cookies crumble.

Magic is transmutation of Universal Energies to achieve desired intentions. The outcome and expectation is yours to decide if its positve or native. Magic is not a negative action, neither is it purely positive. It is a naturally neutral action in nature that is conjured to work as you desire.

May we prosper even as we use the Laws of Nature for the good of the all Creation.

You hit the head on the nail, or should that be the nail on the head, I can't seem to remember. This your post would have been the concluding part of my submissions, nice.

butterflylion:


Of course. Creating a false sense of depth to the initiate and a false sense of power to the one initiating.

I am sure if at that moment he had been told to strip nude and roll around In a sewer while chanting he would have done so without hesitating.

I'm puzzled. Why do people go to church and won't allow ushers to tell them where to sit, but can go naked in the full glare of people and dance to be initiated into satanism?

They are so proud before God, but so humble to satan?

This Liberty and grace is more dire than instant justice.

analice107:

I'm puzzled. Why do people go to church and won't allow ushers to tell them where to sit, but can go naked in the full glare of people and dance to be initiated into satanism?

They are so proud before God, but so humble to satan?

This Liberty and grace is more dire than instant justice.

Unknown Coals of fire on the head my sister, unknown coals of fire!

analice107:

You just indicated that you are delusional and a Jack Ass for always jumping into Christian threads to insult their non existing God.

I'm sure I enclosed a part of that comment in quotes.
Look again.

sukkot:
lmao bro, will it shock you to know that if you want to join the secret societies that control this world like the skull and bones, and freemasons, you will be required to get naked and sleep in a coffin and ride a goat ? george bush and bill clinton and obama and all these people went through that initiation. you will be surprised how bizarre the rituals of these high powered societies are and these men are billionaires. whats my point ? its alchemy symbolism. you went from being naked to having power. thats the symbolism. it just is what it is. i think it is bizarre but i understand what the message is.

Yet, a Christians is the deluded one for believing Jesus and working just by faith.

Sarassin:


You hit the head on the nail, or should that be the nail on the head, I can't seem to remember. This your post would have been the concluding part of my submissions, nice.

Seriously Sarassin, I beg you not to segment knowledge into paths. That is the problem that religions created. This divide between Devil and God has created so much misunderstandings. Now people do not even know what God is. They tend to call God positive and Satan Negative. When in essence, these are just constructs for same Primordial Force. Let us continue to tell people the truth about the Universe and the tools of nature.

Whatever we make out of it, should not be segmented into paths.

Magic is not negative or positive. It is the same Cosmic Energy that should be channeled appropriately and properly. People are using Magic to control weather, remotely view and even possess other people and control them like botnets. We must explore a vaster use of Cosmic Energy for good, and not to kill fellow nature's creations.

PastorAIO:
@ OP,

As a qabalist and bearing in mind you open this thread called middle path...

Please can you tell us which number in the Sefer Sefiroth blocks the path from 1 to 9 and on to 10?
What planet is assIgn to that sefiroth?

So all the bantering against Yahweh and Christians, it's because you are a satanist? It's now clear.

Billyonaire:


Your definitions of magic, and when I say 'your' I mean plural for all those who think of magic as purely negatives are wrong. The erroneous perception that Magic is a negative path is where you are having the confusion.

Jesus, in the allegory turned water into wine, that was magic. I love magic and many people love magic, but alluding that Magic is negative is what scares the shiit out of people. If your Magic heals and invents, then it is positive. But if your magic destroys and kills, then it is negative. It is the User Agent, that decides how to browse the Universe and how the cookies crumble.

Magic is transmutation of Universal Energies to achieve desired intentions. The outcome and expectation is yours to decide if its positve or native. Magic is not a negative action, neither is it purely positive. It is a naturally neutral action in nature that is conjured to work as you desire.

May we prosper even as we use the Laws of Nature for the good of the all Creation.

perhaps if l had used the word mysticism to express my views about science, it would have been a good fit...However , it seems there's total misunderstanding , when l say darker, it means the degree of our human essence in connection to the universe. If we are to get into discourse of occult practices and rituals like prayer ,devotion or adoration to deities or scent like figures , when all symbols are removed, it's pure representation of human psychic in a glyph which do definitely react based on the law of reflex. The bases of misunderstanding could be as a result of choice of words. Yes your interpretation of the word "magic " is absolute, but the extent at which the mind has opened to interact with the universe is the hidden meaning you should react to.....Energy is never bad or good.... if there's anything ,it's the human action. We are practically looking elsewhere on attempt to connect to this universal energy but with all honesty, we should start exploring ourselves before steping into the world. when such steps is taken , our actions/reactions will always be of blissful nature even to animals within our territory.. Not saying your reaction is bad but it should be an evident of self transformation at all giving time. There are an extent that magic difies sciences which truely calls for a debate in your case as a scientist but it seems you snubbed the point.

analice107:

Yet, a Christians is the deluded one for believing Jesus and working just by faith.

Christianity as practised today is definitely a delusion. Lets face it every philosophy and doctrine in the world is a delusion seeing as not one single person has all the truth. we all have pieces of the truth. just that some have bigger chunks than others. the person with the biggest chunk of the truth is the ascended one. the rest are peons in one form of delusion or the other