Interview with the Mr.president by Prince Charles Dickson A good politician under democracy is quite as unthinkable as an honest burglar, Ordinarily this is every Journalist's dream, an encounter with his/her nation's President, for us it was no different.
Personally my emotions were mixed but I tried the best I could to keep it under control and do the best that my job requires of me, only days before this interview, was the ceremonial naming of my second child, my mother-in-law had suggested that I add Aremu to the boy's name, and one can only imagine the look on my face, even before I could object my wife said "mommy, if for nothing but Obasanjo, my husband wont agree".
Well with this kind of feeling, the rest is better imagined.
General Olusegun, Aremu Matthew Okikiola Obasanjo of Owu, the most humble arrogant President of Nigeria, most populous black nation, dictator-democrat extra-ordinary was a delightful experience and the next 32 minutes tells the story of Nigeria from one man's eyes,
The interview was supposed to be for an hour, we had broken it into, the economy, fight on corruption, his battle with his vice, PDP, Reform programme, and more as time could permit but the man fondly called Baba lost it. Prince Charles Dickson, Saa Abdul and Al-Amin Beckley asked the following questions. We stood for the masses
NIGERIANS: Mr. President thank you for granting us this interview and we hope that you will not take offense at questions that we will be putting before you sir.
Obasanjo: If you ask a stupid question, you will get a stupid answer
NIGERIANS: Sir, we shall remain civil to both you and the office of Mr. President
Obasanjo: Alright then
NIGERIANS: Sir, looking back, come May 29 by God's grace you will be leaving, what do you see as your legacy, achievements, what do want to remembered for?
Obasanjo: (Cuts In) Nigerians would judge that but if you must insist, I would ask you, are you not in Nigeria. I want to be remembered as the President that fought corruption, that got Nigerians debt relief, I improved the telecommunications sector.
A lot of turn around can be seen in every facet of Nigerian life, the problem is just that Nigerians are difficult people very hard to please. On May 29 I have promised, I swore an oath to the constitution that I shall leave, only that I must secure that legacy by making sure that some people do not come and spoil it. That is all I will do but anyone that says I wont leave is only making mischief.
NIGERIANS: Sir quoting you, you do not want anyone to spoil your legacy, anybody in particular, ?
Obasanjo: Yes, all those that are corrupt, whatever shade, I will make sure that they do not smell Aso Rock, and asking me anyone in particular is like asking me if I am still the President. Someone like Atiku would never be President, through magic maybe a Buhari but first you should know that there is really nothing like magic and the PDP will not loose the coming elections, we have done enough to merit re-election. Infact someone like Atiku can be regarded as one of my regrets in office, here is a man I trusted and , one day we will talk, not all these childish exchanges.
NIGERIANS: Sir, you government has the reputation of many unresolved issues
Obasanjo: Which one, what are you people talking about
NIGERIANS: Nigerians have not forgotten Okija shrine, in which it was alleged your name was on, the Makunjuola scandal in defense, your library fundraising and, Bola Ige
Obasanjo: (Cuts in annoyance) It is your fathers that had their names on which list, I did not kill Ige, if the Police had done their job, am I Makunjuola,
NIGERIANS: Sir
Obasanjo: Do not sir me, let me warn you all, (pauses)
Interview continues,
NIGERIANS: When exactly did you find out that Atiku was corrupt, and despite all the attempts to remove him, he has floored your government in several court cases,
Obasanjo: (Cuts In) Which court, which court are you talking about, I have said that Lawyers are part of those sabotaging our fight against corruption, I did not find out that he was corrupt, he was investigated and found to be corrupt. Look Mr. Man, Dickson or whatever you are called. It is there everyone knows it; we just do not want to face it.
NIGERIANS: Mr. President a lot of Nigerians disagree with your present reform, and most of your achievements, they say it has not affected their lives positively.
Obasanjo: Patience and sacrifice are strange words to the ordinary Nigerians; most of the programmes that I have embarked upon in this administration may not yield fruit until years from now.
Go and look at the developed nations, they paid the price, we just want to benefit without any sacrifice, look at what my girl Dora has done in the drug manufacturing, you cannot deny her or this administration the kudos, but it did not happen in one day. Apart from some crooks that hide under immunity as Governors, go back to your village and tell me that there is no difference.
Nigerians are happy I tell you that, Nigerians are, my government has fared well, PDP as a party has bettered Nigeria.
NIGERIANS: If you had started the present reforms in 1999, maybe Nigerians would have appreciated or understood, rather a waste of your first term,
Obasanjo : (frowns) did you say waste, one day Nigerians would understand and thank me
NIGERIANS: Sir, this maybe sensitive but we require an answer, are you corrupt, what are the real circumstances that led to your emergence, and on that finally are you punishing Atiku because of his betrayal in 2003.
Obasanjo: Atiku is not my problem, he is not an issue, and he has never been one, why would I want to revenge, which of you is Christian.
NIGERIANS: We represent Nigerians of various creed and religion,
Obasanjo: That you cannot even answer, look vengeance is the Lords, Nigerians voted me, they asked me to provide leadership and that I have been doing since 1999. I am not and have not been corrupt. Is like asking me that do I have up to a million, look as President of this blessed nation I would be lying if I say that at least I am not a millionaire, because I am, but I have not stolen any of it, I have earned it, I have worked for it.
NIGERIANS: So sir, you have made money as President, sir have you abused your office
Obasanjo: You want me to say yes, or no, I am not a thief like some politicians or leaders and I have not abused my office, I am not Atiku, I may not be perfect
NIGERIANS: Why are you particular about Atiku?
Obasanjo: (Mr. President refused to answer)
NIGERIANS: It is on record that your administration embarked on some fruitless assignments which many see as a waste of funds like the reform conference, Oputa panel and many which the reports were not used.
Obasanjo: I am not out to please Nigerians; I did not waste any money
NIGERIANS: Mr. President, many people have questioned the quality of your associates, the likes of Andy Uba, Adedibu, Chris Uba, Ibrahim Mantu
Obasanjo: What about, which quality, when did you people become friend choosers, what is wrong with these men, men of integrity, what crime have they committed, Nigerians are good at talking rubbish
NIGERIANS: You will leave in May 29
Obasanjo: Yes, I will leave, I will leave, but truthfully I would have loved to stay, let me ask you, any of you married, .
NIGERIANS: Yes,
Obasanjo: Would you like to leave your wife or husband?
NIGERIANS: No, but sir,
Obasanjo: That is it, no but
NIGERIANS: Meaning there was truth in the third term agenda
Obasanjo: I never was in support,
NIGERIANS: But your body language, sir you never came out to,
Obasanjo: To what, which body, is the body not mine?
NIGERIANS: You promised a lot and it is on record that you have delivered little; the energy sector is in shambles,
Obasanjo: (Annoyance) What are you talking about, do you know the problem we inherited, do you know the effort this administration has put in, building power stations, power base, the privatization of NEPA, sometimes you all are just ignorant of the issues.
NIGERIANS: But it is the truth sir,
Obasanjo: Which truth, where did you get you truth from, journalists, you are the people that heat up the polity with your useless and baseless reporting.
NIGERIANS: Sir, that is not true, we are not the ones responsible for the improper conduct of your lieutenants, your Governors, Ministers or are we,
Obasanjo: So what is the truth, where were you in 1976, in 1960, what do you know about the truth,
NIGERIANS: If we do not know the truth, what is the truth, Mr. President, your government has pumped in Billions into the energy sector and no results?
Obasanjo: That is your own assessment, my government has done well, full stop.
NIGERIANS: Sir, I beg to say that this is part of your attitude in handling Nigeria, which has caused more problems than solution.
Obasanjo: Which problem,
NIGERIANS: The problem in PDP, your fight with your vice and others?
Obasanjo: There is no problem in PDP, all the so-called AC, CC or whatever they call themselves are just in a dance of shame, these are a corrupt bunch and I can tell you that they will face the law.
NIGERIANS: Are you using Mallam Ribadu, I mean the EFCC, is it a tool in the hands of the Presidency
Obasanjo: Using him to do what, for what am I using Ribadu, he is doing a wonderful job
NIGERIANS: Sir, most people believe that the PDP's Presidential candidate, Governor Umar Yaradua is a stooge for you, we do not expect you to confirm that, but sir the process that led to his emergence was less than transparent.
Obasanjo: Were you there, what more could have been a transparent primary, that day, which is why I say that you guys are the cause of the nation's problems. The electorates will decide come April but I assure that PDP will carry the day.
NIGERIANS: Sir, in military camaraderie one would expect that an IBB candidature or Gusua would have been your choice, some speculated that you had even asked Buhari to come on board,
Obasanjo: (Cuts In) I am a democrat, I did not manipulate anything
NIGERIANS: You do not trust these men, They may send you back to jail
Obasanjo: (Throws the recorder at Beckley, then grabs Saa's neck, )
Mr. President had to be restrained by security personnel, only Almighty Allah knows how it would have ended, in the adjourning room we had Ahmadu Ali, Senator Mantu, Madueke, Bode George, Governors of Benue, Taraba, and Delta States, the hangers on, that one would expect at a Presidential Campaign train.
From the little that Obasanjo said a lot could be deduced, it is not in my place to say because this was a dream, but on a personal note Mr. President could have been better but he allowed himself pass an opportunity to be a Napoleon, he simply threw away the chance meeting of greatness for the frivolities of selfishness, personal vendetta, surrounded himself with questionable characters.
Obasanjo is one lesson too many, whether Buhari or Yaradua or by miracle, we see the emergence of a Chris Okotie, or intellectuals come solidly behind Pat Utomi, there are lessons to learn from the book "how not to be an Obasanjo" and its sequel, "the rise, fall and fall of a man called Atiku".
Our leaders continue to fail us but more importantly we have continued to fail ourselves. When opportunity for reactionary non-violent change comes along we watch it slip by our hands and we continue to cry wolf where only yesterday rats existed.
"There are no magic answers, no miraculous methods to overcome the problems we face, just the familiar ones: honest search for understanding, education, organization, action that raises the cost of state violence for its perpetrators or that lays the basis for institutional change -- and the kind of commitment that will persist despite the temptations of disillusionment, despite many failures and only limited successes, inspired by the hope of a brighter future.
" Words of Noam Chomsky. Obasanjo, the story of Nigeria, Is there hope, this was an encounter, could it have been any different, could our story of nationhood been any different. The next President of Nigeria beware, Nigerians beware, Almighty give us the grace to face an unknown tomorrow.
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