I do not think gospel music stands a chance [against secular music].

Depends on who's making the choice

my dear friend, gospel music does not stand a chance. if every xtian will be truthfull there are more secular songs in our heads than gospel songs . we have more CDs recorded by secular artists than we have those recorded by gospel artists., most xtians preffer to pay N15,000 to see USHER than pay N5,000 to see DONNIE McCLURKIN., i have endless instances of xtians putting lyrics on tunes of secular artists so as to be heared by church folks.,, plssssssssssss

I have been following the various threads on music and may I say/ask the following;

Music is apprehended by the senses and appreciated physically (by the body(. Music is first and foremost a sensual experience. I think any discussion of music should not overlook this fact.

Am I saying that God cannot be worshipped by music? No, indeed, the Bible instructs us to make melody in our hearts to God.

Many feel that a distinction can be made between the beats and the lyrics (music & song), and whilst this is obviously true in a technical sense, from a spiritual perspective, I believe there can be blurring between the two, with the distinction being harder to make, if at all.

Many argue that as long as the lyrics are glorifying God then it’s ok. Is it? In many occult rituals, rhythmic beats are used to cross the physical/spiritual divide and summon spirits. Would one suggest that these same beats/rythms/melodies are God glorifying if attenuated with wholesome Christian lyrics. Can one drink the cup of God and of idols?

Further, as spiritual as we sometimes like to think we are with phrases like “that song/music really moved me in my spirit”, if one is honest, who can deny that the experience be it sensual or spiritual is very much alike as it must of a necessity involve the physical even if it then transcends to the spiritual. I hope I am making myself clear here? Would anyone deny that what is in essence a “bootylicious vibe” or a “get jiggy thang“ could be mistaken for a spiritual high?

For a long time, I couldn’t understand that why despite my conversion and renouncing R&B, Gangsta Rap and other secular music, whenever I heard such music (especially pre-conversion favourites), I’d feel a stirring. It finally dawned on me that it’s a carnal response, and that while I am still in the flesh, it will be an ever present danger, even if dormant. As soon as one gives leave to the flesh, it creeps. It’s that spirit vs. flesh battle, so one must beware of feeding the flesh. Could that be why we often find that Choirs are beset with all sorts of carnal issues? Just a question 0 Bro’/Sis’ head of worship ministry !

So maybe sometimes there is no real difference?

Personally I find worship in song rings more true when I’m alone and singing acapella.

@mycc

mycc:

my dear friend, gospel music does not stand a chance. if every xtian will be truthfull there are more secular songs in our heads than gospel songs . we have more CDs recorded by secular artists than we have those recorded by gospel artists., most xtians preffer to pay N15,000 to see USHER than pay N5,000 to see DONNIE McCLURKIN., i have endless instances of xtians putting lyrics on tunes of secular artists so as to be heared by church folks.,, plssssssssssss

I dare say for me and most of my friends all you said can be proven wrong. i have over 4GB of music on my system right now, and apart from love songs for my wife (about 15) and manchester united anthems, i only have gospel music. there are so much more gospel songs in my head. I dont know lyrics of any secular songs recorded after 1999. (No rap songs after 1996). I wont go to any non gospel concert for free. I will pay N20,000 to see fred hammond or hezekiah walker anytime anyday. i spend a lot of time searching for the latest gospel songs online. its just my life. Dont get me wrong i do hear non-gospel songs everywhere, but they are not a part of me. I can enjoy the harmony, Vocal and musical arrangement, lyricists ability as per rap, but i am 101% into gospel music.

@TV01
This is a topic that truly interests me. I read your post twice but i get the feeling i didn't hit the core of what you are trying to say. Can you make your self a little bit clearer?

TV01:


Personally I find worship in song rings more true when I’m alone and singing acapella.

A very true statement indeed.

@mycc,

i do not think gospel music stands a chance.

While you have not made yourself clear on the basis for comparison, may I bring this to your attention. The past few years have seen a significant jump in the sales of Gospel music while secular music keeps sliding in numbers. Now this is in the U.S. I do not know wht athe situation is in other parts of the world.

lafile:

@TV01
This is a topic that truly interests me. I read your post twice but i get the feeling i didn't hit the core of what you are trying to say. Can you make your self a little bit clearer?

Could you be more specific please.

Thanks

I didnt get your take on gospel music styles. You seem to believe that some certain styles are demonic and cannot be used for gospel music. You also seem to suggest that supposed spiritual experiences in gospel music are more emotional than spiritual. more of the flesh than the spirit.

TV01:

I have been following the various threads on music and may I say/ask the following;

Music is apprehended by the senses and appreciated physically (by the body(. Music is first and foremost a sensual experience. I think any discussion of music should not overlook this fact.

Am I saying that God cannot be worshipped by music? No, indeed, the Bible instructs us to make melody in our hearts to God.

Many feel that a distinction can be made between the beats and the lyrics (music & song), and whilst this is obviously true in a technical sense, from a spiritual perspective, I believe there can be blurring between the two, with the distinction being harder to make, if at all.

Many argue that as long as the lyrics are glorifying God then it’s ok. Is it? In many occult rituals, rhythmic beats are used to cross the physical/spiritual divide and summon spirits. Would one suggest that these same beats/rythms/melodies are God glorifying if attenuated with wholesome Christian lyrics. Can one drink the cup of God and of idols?

Further, as spiritual as we sometimes like to think we are with phrases like “that song/music really moved me in my spirit”, if one is honest, who can deny that the experience be it sensual or spiritual is very much alike as it must of a necessity involve the physical even if it then transcends to the spiritual. I hope I am making myself clear here? Would anyone deny that what is in essence a “bootylicious vibe” or a “get jiggy thang“ could be mistaken for a spiritual high?

For a long time, I couldn’t understand that why despite my conversion and renouncing R&B, Gangsta Rap and other secular music, whenever I heard such music (especially pre-conversion favourites), I’d feel a stirring. It finally dawned on me that it’s a carnal response, and that while I am still in the flesh, it will be an ever present danger, even if dormant. As soon as one gives leave to the flesh, it creeps. It’s that spirit vs. flesh battle, so one must beware of feeding the flesh. Could that be why we often find that Choirs are beset with all sorts of carnal issues? Just a question 0 Bro’/Sis’ head of worship ministry !

So maybe sometimes there is no real difference?

Personally I find worship in song rings more true when I’m alone and singing acapella.

I'm glad that you clarified that this is your personal preference  since I strongly disagree with you.

Music is the strongest tool that the enemy has masterfully manipulated for his use.  Music was meant to be spiritual and the instruments made to worship God. This was so even in heaven as you well know.  Lucifer, now Satan as chief musician understood this power and even today has changed it from spiritual to carnal.

Secular music appeals to the soul/senses, to that much I agree.  But everything belongs to God. Rhythm belongs to God, beats belong to God, and to insinuate that they are carnal only merits question.

I have heard worship songs to Jesus Christ in Hindi, in Arabic, in Chinese, in Jewish.  I have heard praises to God in Calypso, Hip Life etc.  

Praise and high praise can certainly be up tempo however worship must always be intimate and slower paced.  However people get caught up in the praise.  But I see no problem with dancing before the Lord either.

For the indiviudal who worships God in spirit and in truth, he/she can discern the spirit behind the music.

hey gospel music is what it is gospel music. as long as the massage contained in music relates to the new life that christ has won for us by comming to this world to doe resurect and assend to heaven it is gospel no matter the genre or type

I didnt get your take on gospel music styles.

I was not making a distinction between types of music or styles of gospel. I was referring to music and lyrics as a whole.

You seem to believe that some certain styles are demonic and cannot be used for gospel music.

Here I was alluding to rythms/beats as opposed to lyrics.  Rythm/beats are used in occult rituals as well. Just calling them Christian - or adding Christian lyrics - or bringing them into the church does not automatically sanctify them.  Plus if the purveyors of certain styles or types of music worship a foreign God, does Christian use of the same rythms automatically sanctify them?

You also seem to suggest that supposed spiritual experiences in gospel music are more emotional than spiritual. more of the flesh than the spirit.

I'm saying that it can be a thin line between music as a true worship experience and a feel good (emotional/physical) one. And being Christian does not necessarily make ones response to music spiritual. Music is recieved first and foremost as a physical response is it not?

Sing a few words from a worship song in your head. Now add a funky beat; Did your hips move?

Is every Christian that sings (even in church) worshipping? Is there ever an element of performance (flesh) in music/singing as worship?

What is your experience?

God bless

So TV your problem is the moving of the hips, is that it? I'm not getting you on this one.

Are you saying that praising God by dancing promotes lust in the church?

Music I believe was first used to worship God. Lucifer while in heaven used music to worship God. But worship is not all about music and music is not all about worship. While the highest form of Christian Music is Worship music, not all Christian music can be categorised as worship music.

All christian music should glorify God. Thats the bottom line. To me, Christian music is any music done by a christian (a born again, spirit filled christian, that is.) Christian music is music written and performed under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Anything i can say as a christian i can also sing about. I can talk to my God, express my love for God, express my doubts, declare my faith, evangelise, encourage someone, remind someone of Gods faithfullness, declare He's coming soon, etc with my music. Christian music should not be limited to Worship alone. And since worship is a life style, in essence our living the christian lifestyle and expressing it thru music is in essence worship.

When the european missionaries first came to africa, they not only changed the names of their converts, but also changed their music. As far as they were concerned, african music styles were heathen in nature and origin. Hymns had to be sung in european styles. even when africans learnt to play the organ and trumpets, they were restricted to european styles. However, you cannot use music that does not come from your heart to worship God. It didnt take long for these africans to 'remix' these hymns african style. this way their hearts could relate to what their notes were saying. Style doesnt matter as much as people tend to believe. in most times, it is just cultural bias. Off course i would not close my eyes in worship with heavy drums playing, but when singing about the joy of the Lord, bring on the dancing.

Thats not to say that every song categorised under Cristian or Gospel is actually so. Not everysong that says 'God" or 'Jesus" is Christian, no matter how 'Godly the message is. So many so called Christian artistes actually have 'radio friendly' versions of their songs (i.e. songs which deliberately obliterate Jesus or God from their lyrics). Many attempt to sing 'Christian' songs in such a way that it doesn't offend their non-christian record label executives. Others in an attempt to sound 'cool' actually mute out what message they may contain with too much beat.

The conclusion of the whole matter is that whateve music is inspired by the Spirit of God is Good enough for me. Deep calleth unto Deep.

@ lafile,

lafile:

I dare say for me and most of my friends all you said can be proven wrong. i have over 4GB of music on my system right now, and apart from love songs for my wife (about 15) and manchester united anthems, i only have gospel music. there are so much more gospel songs in my head. I don't know lyrics of any secular songs recorded after 1999. (No rap songs after 1996). I wont go to any non gospel concert for free. I will pay N20,000 to see fred hammond or hezekiah walker anytime anyday. i spend a lot of time searching for the latest gospel songs online. its just my life. Dont get me wrong i do hear non-gospel songs everywhere, but they are not a part of me. I can enjoy the harmony, Vocal and musical arrangement, lyricists ability as per rap, but i am 101% into gospel music.

i couldnt have said it better. i wonder why mycc didnt stick to his own preferences and not try to dictate what others should be interested in.

trini_girl:

So TV your problem is the moving of the hips, is that it? I'm not getting you on this one.

Not at all, I'm merely saying that a persons response to music or apprehension of it is not spiritual just because they are a Christian.

trini_girl:

Are you saying that praising God by dancing promotes lust in the church?

No I am not, but just because the dancing is done in church or by Christians, or even purportedly to worship God does it make it holy.

I realise there are a wide variety of experiences and responses on this one. Some of my most memorable worship experiences have been in or bourne out of song. The type of Christian I am means I gravitate more towards contermplative, meditative worship, even in song. I realise not everyone may be so inclined. I appreciate that.

I am just personally aware that music can feed the spirit or the flesh and the fact remains, that we experience it first as a physical phenomenum.

Please say on.

God bless

TV01:

I have been following the various threads on music and may I say/ask the following;

Music is apprehended by the senses and appreciated physically (by the body(. Music is first and foremost a sensual experience. I think any discussion of music should not overlook this fact.

Am I saying that God cannot be worshipped by music? No, indeed, the Bible instructs us to make melody in our hearts to God.

Many feel that a distinction can be made between the beats and the lyrics (music & song), and whilst this is obviously true in a technical sense, from a spiritual perspective, I believe there can be blurring between the two, with the distinction being harder to make, if at all.

Many argue that as long as the lyrics are glorifying God then it’s ok. Is it? In many occult rituals, rhythmic beats are used to cross the physical/spiritual divide and summon spirits. Would one suggest that these same beats/rythms/melodies are God glorifying if attenuated with wholesome Christian lyrics. Can one drink the cup of God and of idols?

Further, as spiritual as we sometimes like to think we are with phrases like “that song/music really moved me in my spirit”, if one is honest, who can deny that the experience be it sensual or spiritual is very much alike as it must of a necessity involve the physical even if it then transcends to the spiritual. I hope I am making myself clear here? Would anyone deny that what is in essence a “bootylicious vibe” or a “get jiggy thang“ could be mistaken for a spiritual high?

For a long time, I couldn’t understand that why despite my conversion and renouncing R&B, Gangsta Rap and other secular music, whenever I heard such music (especially pre-conversion favourites), I’d feel a stirring. It finally dawned on me that it’s a carnal response, and that while I am still in the flesh, it will be an ever present danger, even if dormant. As soon as one gives leave to the flesh, it creeps. It’s that spirit vs. flesh battle, so one must beware of feeding the flesh. Could that be why we often find that Choirs are beset with all sorts of carnal issues? Just a question 0 Bro’/Sis’ head of worship ministry !

So maybe sometimes there is no real difference?

Personally I find worship in song rings more true when I’m alone and singing acapella.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hello, TV01 , i think you are not balanced in your opinion.most worship songs are done in the style that suits the writer of the song. music is meant to be spiritual and the devil knows that, the fact the he has perverted it does not make it his. my dear friend, if i praise JEHOVAH with fuji music, it is HE i praise, not you, do not reject my praise of GOD on HIS behalf.

i like secular music and i like gospel music. i like awilo longomba's music but i also like paul agubata's music and i like the dynamites music {gospel makossa group}. i really wonder if secular music is a sin if you listen to it.

but for the lyrics, there aint no diff btw secular and gospel music. Infact most of those secular music come from Church ppl (formerly choristers) e.g. kci and jojo, toni braxton n co.

@ Pay Na
it depends on the level of your spirituality or relationship with God.

there are some songs you cant really listen to as a christian because they do not edify your spirit but can rather pollute it. a ready example is some kinds of heavy metal rock. the singers themselves are usually of a 'different' spirit and invoke a lot of negative forces in their songs.

on a base level, the lyrics of many secular songs are not worth listening to, so, personally since i want to keep myself pure i'll steer clear of them. beleive me there's nothing to be missed, there's everything to enjoy by listening to music that can nourish your spirit.

it depends on your relationship with the Holy Spirit, i was really into rap before i became a christian but i didnt even need to be told to stop; i just felt convicted and had to drop it. now i dont even have any desire for secular rap songs (although i listen to cross movement and souljahz, they're solid christians). hope that helps. God bless.

it depends on the level of your spirituality or relationship with God.there are some songs you can't really listen to as a christian because they do not edify your spirit but can rather pollute it. a ready example is some kinds of heavy metal rock. the singers themselves are usually of a 'different' spirit and invoke a lot of negative forces in their songs.

on a base level, the lyrics of many secular songs are not worth listening to, so, personally since i want to keep myself pure i'll steer clear of them. beleive me there's nothing to be missed, there's everything to enjoy by listening to music that can nourish your spirit.

it depends on your relationship with the Holy Spirit, i was really into rap before i became a christian but i didnt even need to be told to stop; i just felt convicted and had to drop it. now i don't even have any desire for secular rap songs (although i listen to cross movement and souljahz, they're solid christians). hope that helps. God bless

i guess you are right. i don't listen to any of that heavy metal stuff. that stuff IS devil music. i can never listen to that. as far awilo longomba, i can't understand most of his songs so i don't know how that would affect my spritual walk with God. songs that are all about drugs, wining and stuff like that i do not listen to. that stuff really eats away at your spitual life.
it depends on the level of your spirituality or relationship with God.

To be honest , this issue as to do with individual level of spirituality and God's consciousness. I listen to both secular music and gospel music. though I have taste for the types of secular music I listen to, I don't even listen to raps at all . Only classicals and certain R & Bs, maybe useful to my hearing. I'm more into gospel music but the fact lies there that all things on earth belongs to God because he created heaven and earth, Defeated Satan may actually try to adultrate some things but the awareness is still there . If you compose , arrange or direct songs you will understand better , I mean sources of inspiration. I listen to any song and afterward discard it or filter it to suite my compositional or edifying purpose. As it may be simple sounding though, the complexity of your mind not being polluted by the secular / raw songs cannot be underestimated.

@ Lafile,

Please would you mind to get in touch with me through my email on my profile. I 've tried to check urs but not activated . We need to talk.

Trini_ girl & Lafile have more or less summed up this post.
Really gospel vs secular really doesnt arise, the renewed mind is able to discern, the more you long to be close to God and maifest this closeness, the less one will find themselves listening to unwholesome music, not all secular music is unwholesome in the same way not all gospel music glorify's God.

Lucifer now Satan is well aware of the power of music and has completely perverted it eg rock artistes worshiping demons and biting off the head of bats onstage or gangsta' rap that glamorises gun crime, violence & drug running or the debasement of female folk in some of the hip-hop videos out there. One should nor belittle the influence music has on the spirit, mind and soul. Play a few slow jams and what mood does it put one into?

God's spirit talks to the spirit in man and enables one to make an informed choice. If you as a born-again christian prefer to go see Usher sing about pre-marital sex as opposed to Donnie praise and worship God, then the renewal process is still in it's early stages and questions needto be asked regarding what side of the fence one really is residing at.

Listen to legendary FELA and FEMI,they tell you the truth in a very simple way.

Are we talking about Nigeria Music here!!!!!
For me i think if we are talking about Nigeria Music here i think the secular music are having there way far more than the gospel with a simple reason; the Nigerian Secular Artist tend to do everything to make his videos much more better compared to a Gospel artist. And i think good video with good lyrics works hand in hand. Thats why all them Kirk F, , etc (Foreign Gospel Artists) have made names and fame,

hmmmmmmm

This is a good topic. It realy helped me alot with my presentation about Gospel vs. Secular music. Tnx alot guys, I hope I can be involved in the next discussion, God Bless

TV01 has a point.
Just that u guyz dont really get him. Wat I believe he's saying is that Yeah, God may be the author and finisher in Music, but he sure as hell did not author nor finish CERTAIN kinds of music.

D'u know that the meaning of any piece of music is also imbued in it's rhythm? 4 Instance, if I want u to shake ur booty 2 my song everytime u hear it, I make the beat induce it.
It's not 4 nothing that u creepwalk or drop-it-like-its-hot everytime u hear Snoop's "Drop it Like it's Hot" - Pharrell makes u do that.

So how u gon take a beat meant to induce ass-quaking and try to induce the Holy Ghost? Unless of course ur "holy ghost" is very FUNKY

The truth is that even some Christains don't patronise Gospel Musicians. And this is forstrating Many gospel singers,this makes some of them go out of line. Because they are not getting the money. Look at artist like Samsung,Gordons and many others.These guys add some secular songs to their Cd's just to sell,and its bad. really bad. And young gospel musicians are being discourage by this act. Even my self. I just pray that GOD helps Me.

slimnike:

The truth is that even some Christains don't patronise Gospel Musicians. And this is forstrating Many gospel singers,this makes some of them go out of line. Because they are not getting the money. Look at artist like Samsung,Gordons and many others.These guys add some secular songs to their Cd's just to sell,and its bad. really bad. And young gospel musicians are being discourage by this act. Even my self. I just pray that GOD helps Me.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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