@ otuwe,

then let them know cos i know that you know better on this subject

@otuwe,

otuwe:

the spirit is alloted a certain time to wonder through earth(in many earthlives) and when his time is up he is judged.

What references are there for this "many earthlives"?

otuwe:

Christ is more dan able to do all things but i don't think HE would go against the LAW of HIS FATHER because that would make HIM imperfect and i don't believe GOD is imperfect.

The Law of the Father is not reincarnation. There was only one incarnation in the Bible found in John 1:14 - and there's no hint of reincarnation taught in the Word.

pilgrim.1:

@otuwe,

What references are there for this "many earthlives"?

The Law of the Father is not reincarnation. There was only one incarnation in the Bible found in John 1:14 - and there's no hint of reincarnation taught in the Word.

if it was not mentioned in the bible, that doesnt mean its not a reality.
Perharps humans at that time were not spiritually matured to understand that.

@ otuwe,
abeg make we leave this pilgrim o, she's at our neck

@enitan2002,

enitan2002:

if it was not mentioned in the bible, that doesnt mean its not a reality.

Okay, I just wanted to be sure about that; and my reasons for asking is also linked to the originating post by otuwe:

there has to be reincarnation if not, why would the descibles ask Jesus if He was Elijah, He might as well have told them that there was nothing like reincarnation,

the gospel was only edited and remove from the bible with some other facts of life that seemed threatening and incomprehensible

So, you can see that her post suggested that reincarnation was in the Bible - whereas you have offered that it is NOT.

enitan2002:

Perharps humans at that time were not spiritually matured to understand that.

Understand what?

enitan2002:

@ otuwe,
abeg make we leave this pilgrim o, she's at our neck

No. . .lol. I'm not at anyone's neck at all.

Resusrection is reincarnation. There are the same thing.

Go to a dictionary and check the meanings for yourself. You will see they are the same it with different names.

Don't believe me, check it up for yourself.

At the end of the day, we are going to the year 2008, and your Jesus the SUN of God has not yet come back
While religious priest are still raping and molesting Children (boys and girl) daily,
and Africa is still at the bottom of the pile when it comes to world affairs.
so I have not time to SUGAR-COAT the facts, like many of these so-called believers.

Kuns:

Resusrection is reincarnation. There are the same thing.

Go to a dictionary and check the meanings for yourself. You will see they are the same it with different names.

Don't believe me, check it up for yourself.

What dictionaries did you consult?

Kuns:

While religious priest are still raping and molesting Children (boys and girl) daily,
and Africa is still at the bottom of the pile when it comes to world affairs.
so I have not time to SUGAR-COAT the facts, like many of these so-called believers.

Actually, in Africa we know how many blacks that think like you are doing unspeakable things worse than molestating children - and they're doing such without the help of priests.

@Topic
Reincarnation is a lie of the devil which he started in the Garden of Eden when he told Eve that She shall not surely die (Gen 3:4) and since then, he has been doing his best to see that lie believed and men! He sure is doing a good job at it since most Christians even believe that. Now what does the bible say about the state of the dead and what happens after death? Until we get this clearly, then we will continue debating over this issue.

Man was made a perfect being with the prospect of eternal life but with the entrance of sin, death became our lot. Romans 6:23. Now what happens when we die? When our physical body (flesh) dies, does our spirit "roam" about or goes directly to heaven or hell as the case may be?

Of all the patriachs and Prophets in the Bible, note that only two people were mentioned categorically that did not see death, Enoch (Gen 5: 24) and Elijah (2 Kings 2:11). As for Moses, there seems to be a little confusion with regards to what happened to his body after death.
Deut 34: 5 "So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord."
vs 6: "And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulcher unto this day." Strange, isn't it? But we will get to that later.

So what happens when we die?
Eccl 12vs 7, "Then shall the dust return to the Earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it" Now the next question becomes " what is the spirit? Is it a conscious being without the physical body and if so does it mean that both the righteous and the wicked return to God at death according to the passage above?
Definitely not! otherwise Jesus statement in John 3:3 would have been meaningless- "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I said unto you, except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God" And this disputes the theory that "spirit" here is a conscious being.

Now let's go back to Genesis 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living Soul"
This implies that dust + breath of life= living soul
Soul is usually used in the bible to depict the whole personality of a human beign, like where we have "The soul that sinneth shall die" so from this we can deduce that, Body - breath of life = Dust = Dead Soul. This proves that the word "spirit" as used in Eccl 12 vs 7 is refering to the Breath of life and not a conscious being. Please Note Ps 27: 3 "All the while my breath is in me, and the Spirit of God is in my Nostrils"

As regarding the question about Jesus being Elijah, I think Trini has already answered that. Now coming to Moses' death, the Bible did not leave us in confussion as regards to what happened to his Body. Take a look at Jude vs 9, "Yet Micheal the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said , The Lord rebuke thee." This can only mean one thing, that Moses body was taken by God since his sepulcher cannot be found to this day. Ever wondered why it was Moses and Elijah that appeared during the Transfiguration of Jesus?

Ps 6:5 "For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee Thanks?"
Ps 115 vs 17 "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence"
Eccl 9:5&6 "For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything, neither have they anymore a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in anything that is done under the sun"
Need I say more. So when you die, You are Finito until the ressurection morning.

@Oluchia,

Oluchia:

Need I say more. So when you die, You are Finito until the ressurection morning.

Lol, good input - with a note of finality!

What about the people that say they keep seen their dead relatives in there dreams

I think such soul's are still wondering in the land of the dead

I really don't know about such. But dreams do not suggest that reincarnation is a Biblical truth.

i guess we should send one nairalander to the great beyond and see if the person will be finito till resurrection morn. or wat else.

who is ready to sacrifice him/herself . dont forget to give us all the full jist.

but i still stand on the truth

* there is reincarnation *

otuwe:

but i still stand on the truth

* there is reincarnation *

Maybe, but that 'truth' does not come from the Bible.

LiquidMind:


What about the people that say they keep seen their dead relatives in there dreams

I think such soul's are still wondering in the land of the dead

Dreams can be  Psychological or Spiritual in nature.
I'm not a psychologist but I know that dreams can be as a result of the state of mind of the person involved and sometimes the devil capitalizes on this to instil fear and doubts in us. We should not forget who the devil is and so nothing should come to us as a suprise. He can impersonate anybody he wants to as there are more demons on Earth than there are human beings. These are called familiar spirits and God warns that we should not consult them (Isaiah 8:19). Remember the case of King Saul who went to inquire from a Witch to invoke the spirit of Samuel (1 Samuel Chapter 28).  Sure the witch succeded in bringing up someone that looks like Samuel who equally told Saul exactly what will happen to him if he goes to battle with the Philistines(which actually came to pass later ie Saul's death), but that person definitely was not Samuel. Read the account very well and you will notice some things. Apart from the fact that it was a witch that brought up the supposed spirit of samuel and not a prophet of God, notice vs 14 "And he said unto her, what form is he of? And she said, an old man cometh up: and he is covered with a mantle. AND SAUL PERCEIVED THAT IT WAS SAMUEL, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself". What do you think? That sounds like a fake right?

Notice also that the 'Samuel' told him exactly what will happen which later came to pass, so you shouldn't be suprised too if the so-called relation of yours you see in the dream or even in reality gives you information that   the dead relative or you alone should know about.

My Dad always tells us that if he dies today and tomorrow you see him either in your dream or in reality, you should rebuke him in the name of Jesus. We used to laugh over it, but in truth that is the only warfare we have against the enemy.

otuwe:

i guess we should send one Nairaland user to the great beyond and see if the person will be finito till resurrection morn. or what else.

who is ready to sacrifice him/herself . don't forget to give us all the full jist.

but i still stand on the truth

* there is reincarnation *

you know we both stand in the light and truth, which can never be manipulated.
I guess with my best knowledge, that dogmatism has eaten deep into the souls of mankind, unless they're ready to free theirselves, we can offer little or no help at all.
Lets keep mute, ok?

Oluchia:

Dreams can be Psychological or Spiritual in nature.
I'm not a psychologist but I know that dreams can be as a result of the state of mind of the person involved and sometimes the devil capitalizes on this to instil fear and doubts in us. We should not forget who the devil is and so nothing should come to us as a suprise. He can impersonate anybody he wants to as there are more demons on Earth than there are human beings. These are called familiar spirits and God warns that we should not consult them (Isaiah 8:19). Remember the case of King Saul who went to inquire from a Witch to invoke the spirit of Samuel (1 Samuel Chapter 28). Sure the witch succeded in bringing up someone that looks like Samuel who equally told Saul exactly what will happen to him if he goes to battle with the Philistines(which actually came to pass later ie Saul's death), but that person definitely was not Samuel. Read the account very well and you will notice some things. Apart from the fact that it was a witch that brought up the supposed spirit of samuel and not a prophet of God, notice vs 14 "And he said unto her, what form is he of? And she said, an old man cometh up: and he is covered with a mantle. AND SAUL PERCEIVED THAT IT WAS SAMUEL, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself". What do you think? That sounds like a fake right?

Notice also that the 'Samuel' told him exactly what will happen which later came to pass, so you shouldn't be suprised too if the so-called relation of yours you see in the dream or even in reality gives you information that the dead relative or you alone should know about.

My Dad always tells us that if he dies today and tomorrow you see him either in your dream or in reality, you should rebuke him in the name of Jesus. We used to laugh over it, but in truth that is the only warfare we have against the enemy.

I guess you are a Jehovah Witness, i was once was, till i set myself free.
Now i know better, One final word, Re-examine all you've learnt, dismiss what insults your soul

enitan2002:

you know we both stand in the light and truth, which can never be manipulated.
I guess with my best knowledge, that dogmatism has eaten deep into the souls of mankind, unless they're ready to free theirselves, we can offer little or no help at all.
Lets keep mute, ok?

I guess you are a Jehovah Witness, i was once was, till i set myself free.
Now i know better, One final word, Re-examine all you've learnt, dismiss what insults your soul

Thank God for you and I hope you are free Indeed. And no, I am not a Jehovah witness not that it matters anyway. And I study my Bible like the Bereans with the help of the Holy Spirit and I hope you do same too except if you do not beleive it is the word of God.

Oluchia:

Thank God for you and I hope you are free Indeed. And no, I am not a Jehovah witness not that it matters anyway. And I study my Bible like the Bereans with the help of the Holy Spirit and I hope you do same too except if you do not beleive it is the word of God.

thats nice, i have the more completed, accurate, undistorted and in the finest form word of the ALMIGHTY in the form of "IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH:THE GRAIL MESSAGE" by Abd-Ru-Shin

@enitan2002,

enitan2002:

thats nice, i have the more completed, accurate, undistorted and in the finest form word of the ALMIGHTY in the form of "IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH:THE GRAIL MESSAGE" by Abd-Ru-Shin

Lol, I hope you won't see this as yet another bother; but I'd like to ask you just two questions:

(a) why is it then that if you have the most refined word of the Almighty, crossbearers still often quote from the Bible for the most part to buttress their views?

(b) why is it that what you call "the more completed, accurate, undistorted and in the finest form word" still cannot be expalined in simple accurate terms to others on the Forum?

Regards.

pilgrim.1:

@enitan2002,

Lol, I hope you won't see this as yet another bother; but I'd like to ask you just two questions:

(a) why is it then that if you have the most refined word of the Almighty, crossbearers still often quote from the Bible for the most part to buttress their views?

(b) why is it that what you call "the more completed, accurate, undistorted and in the finest form word" still cannot be expalined in simple accurate terms to others on the Forum?

Regards.

answers to your questions,
(a) this is simply because it's still the same thing with the true and undistorted message of our lord jesus christ.
(b) it is you who still can not free yourself from the stronghold of the over-cultivated intellect

@enitan2002,

enitan2002:

(a) this is simply because it's still the same thing with the true and undistorted message of our lord jesus christ.

Lol, enitaaaan2002! No, I'm not trying to laugh at you; but your assertion is amazing. How is the GRAIL MESSAGE the same as that of our Lord Jesus Christ?

enitan2002:

(b) it is you who still can not free yourself from the stronghold of the over-cultivated intellect

This is where we must ask deeper questions, but I'll reserve them until later. Even so, Jesus Christ never taught most of what we have been reading from the crossbearers on the Forum. It doesn't take so much for anyone to understand the Biblical Gospel of Jesus Christ; but it is still quite difficult for the crossbearers to clearly convey their message. Why is this so?

@pilgrim


maybe u should pick up a copy of the message maybe u wud explain it better than has been discussed so far.

how about that.

the Message is seperate from the readers so dont get biased cos pple ae not explaining things to u properly. we are all at different stages of spiritual maturity.

so dont judge the Message based on the readers but read for urself then find out if it is beneficial to u.

cheers girlfrriend,

by the way am just finding out u r female can u imagine. i always tot u were male.

ciao pple

re-incarnation does not exist

just note that cells regenerate, and ur mind can play tricks on u on ur unborn baby , it happens to animal also.

if u could remember the story of how Jacob was able to get his sheep to give birth to certain colors of baby sheep, same would happen to human

if u were pregnant and u lost some one u love and u have it continuously in ur mind, there is high probability that ur child in the womb would have similar resemblance to ur late whom ever.

another instance happen to my my great grand dad had a scare top of his left shoulder he sustained from battles then, my dad had the same scare so they assume he reincarnated, funny enough i also have the same scare. where the story is funny is that my my great grand dad that was grand dad to my father was still alive when my dad was born until my dad got up to 15, and am still alive today and my dad too is alive and i have same scare,

most probably my child might have it, so did we all reincarnate from a man that did not actually die while we were born at different times? hmm interesting

kaecy5:

re-incarnation does not exist

just note that cells regenerate, and your mind can play tricks on u on your unborn baby , it happens to animal also.

if u could remember the story of how Jacob was able to get his sheep to give birth to certain colors of baby sheep, same would happen to human

if u were pregnant and u lost some one u love and u have it continuously in your mind, there is high probability that your child in the womb would have similar resemblance to your late whom ever.

another instance happen to my my great grand dad had a scare top of his left shoulder he sustained from battles then, my dad had the same scare so they assume he reincarnated, funny enough i also have the same scare. where the story is funny is that my my great grand dad that was grand dad to my father was still alive when my dad was born until my dad got up to 15, and am still alive today and my dad too is alive and i have same scare,

most probably my child might have it, so did we all reincarnate from a man that did not actually die while we were born at different times? hmm interesting

it is not the flesh that re incarnates so u cant use ur illustration to conclude that there is no reincarnation.

physical resemblance is from the genes dats y your "whole generation" has a particular mark on their body.

it is the spirit that re incarnates into new body which is formed in the womb ok.

interesting , can explain how does that happens if it does happens??

kaecy5:

interesting , can explain how does that happens if it does happens??

simple my dear. if you can answer these questions, you'd get the gist.

1. why are some people born poor and others rich?
2. why do bad things happen to good people?
3. why are some people in Liberia where they have to face the civil wars?
4. why are some oil workers being kidnapped?
5. why do some people have terminal diseases?
6. why is there so much injustice in the world?
7. why is judas who betrayed jesus for your salvation not a hero?

is it that God is unfair and unjust to let these things happen?

<ghost whisperers>>>>

Masons, witches, occultists and evolutionists all believe in reincarnation so it must be true, trust me

OLAADEGBU:

Masons, witches, occultists and evolutionists all believe in reincarnation so it must be true, trust me

Are you serious? I never heard of evolutionists who believe in reincarnation - care to share some source?

viaro:

Are you serious? I never heard of evolutionists who believe in reincarnation - care to share some source?

New Age cults and the various 'religions that permeate our societies today are in on the Pantheistic evolutionistic belief that Reincarnation explains the origin of this world's system.  Don't be left out, that's the latest discovery even the New York times alluded to it. Haven't you heard of mother nature before

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/science/15brain.html?_r=4&pagewanted=1&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

OLAADEGBU:

New Age cults and the various 'religions that permeate our societies today are in on the Pantheistic evolutionistic belief that Reincarnation explains the origin of this world's system. Don't be left out, that's the latest discovery even the New York times alluded to it. Haven't you heard of mother nature before

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/science/15brain.html?_r=4&pagewanted=1&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Oh well, although the link requires a subscription to view the article, I guess you've helped me to understand what you meant. Good job.

The Trap!

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0075/0075_01.asp

otuwe:

guy uve got me lost there, how do u mean same as resurrection. are u sayin its the physical body that reincarnates, i really dont think so

i also dont think so.