Dear Oga Kelvin Ugwu, permit me to use Oga because of the warning in the bible that we only have one father and should not call another our father.
We are all brothers no matter what ( Matthew 23 :9).

Peter and most of the apostles are 'wannabees' according to you but you cannot equal their understanding of the bible.

They are unlettered and ordinary according to the scriptures, yet Yeshua used them. It doesn't mean that people like you that go to theology school are not around that time.

It is to show you that God can choose to reveal his truth to even kids and hide it from the proud and arrogant.

Theology school is aimed at intimidating others and controlling them using God's name and you proved to be a good student.

The first thing is to put fear of death or hell fire in them and that is why you came up with all the 10 offences punishable with death but you succeeded in making us know how strongly God opposes sex with anything other than your married wife.

Sex is equal to marriage in God's eyes. Once you have sex with a person not your wife, you have fallen short and to make amends, you must marry the person, even if the parents disagree, you must pay virgin dowry to be free.

All of these is in the bible and I discussed it in my post of recent, check it for the quotations. Let us teach people well so that they see the danger of touching any person they are not married to not to talk of going close to a married person. All these immoralities will not be as rampant as it is today.

This is what is on the ground and not bringing up cases of death sentences, which you knows quite well that Yeshua our redeemer has taken care of, that even if we fall into such, all we need to do is repent, confess to God, turn around and try not to go back to our former ways. We know better now, so the death threats can only work on psyche of those who depend on others to study their bible.

Moreover, I did not see where polygamy is among the offenses punishable by death so there is no need for that.

The issue of slavery you brought up was also uncalled for and unrelated because everyone knows slavery is bad and it is circumstances that push people into slavery.

The Israelites even tasted it. You theologians are even the ones being accused of helping the slave master by hiding some portions that are unfavourable to them while hammering on 'slaves obey your masters'.

The issue of people marrying their relatives is also cultural. If their culture permits it and God is not against it, will I be so foolish to leave my own culture that God did not disprove either? So this one also did not work Sir.

It is very clear that God did not forbid polygamy so it is unwise for us to be creating sexual chaos in the world by playing God. Check my article on polygamy to gain more insight.

Where the trending young man that married second wife got it wrong is that he cheated on the wife before converting it to polygamy, this he has to confess to God and possibly the wife and seek forgiveness. He can even extend it to other people if he is honest and want people to see him as such, especially if he wants to serve the people.

But he did what God required of him by making another woman he slept with his wife. For God, it is touch and marry. No two ways about it.

Let me also take you to 1 Timothy 3 :12, maybe 13 also where Paul was hammering on overseers being husbands of one wife without mentioning other extra fine qualities which made you conclude that Paul was talking of it as a christian quality.

No, it is so that they preside in a fine manner and with great freeness of speech as verse 13 clarified. And it means there are polygamists also among the early Christians.

So, Paul out of zealousness and his desire that nothing disturbs the preaching of the good news placed embargo on brothers reaching out to oversee others marrying more than one wife. Remember that he is lettered and not a 'wannabee'. He can pass for today's theologians like you .

I don't think he is also married, remember. Should this also be one of the Christian qualities? Celibacy?
No. Just zeal for God's work.


My Oga Kelvin, I am not quite sure, but it seems I see somewhere 'Nonsense' was mentioned in your write up. Please let's agree to disagree amicably with facts and figures only, after all these Cows we are herding belongs to only one Alhaji.


We are one. Polygamy should be encouraged to end today's pandemic of sexual immorality, it is not and will never be a sin. People should be thought how to practice it responsibly instead of demonizing it as Satan wants so that homosexuality, bestiality, lesbianism, prostitution, adultery, fornication and so on will be thriving hypocritically underground.


Check my write up on that if you need more clarifications. I rest my case for now.


Update: Pls I forgot to include Solomon's issue which you also mentioned among others but let me talk about Solomon for now.

Solomon's case was a clear case of multiplication of wives which the bible is clearly against.

In Polygamy, you add wife according to circumstances but if you multiply wives probably because of lust, you are no longer in line with God's direction.

Let us take a scenario you need another wife to help you organise your household and keep you company since your first wife is 'impossible' and there is no way you can divorce her without offending God since she did not commit adultery.

You being capable of taking another wife decided to bring in additional two. That is a clear case of multiplication because what you need is just one and God hates it.

Thanks.

One, nobody knows it all. Let me teach you how to follow this your kind of argument. Kelvin has paragraphs in his article. Quote each of his paragraphs and put your corrective paragraph under it. Kelvin quoted and explained many Bible verses. Quote Kelvin's explanation of each of the verses, then give your correction under it. Is there any Bible verse Kelvin quoted and misinterpreted? If yes, highlight it with Kelvin's wrong interpretation, then give your correction.

Two, try to finish your points on polygamy here. Do not tell us to read your previous posts. Kelvin put all his points as one article. Since you already have articles on polygamy, copy things from there and add those things to this your very post. Do not ask us to go and read something else elsewhere.

Now, let me respond to some of your statements.

yeshuasfootstep:
Sex is equal to marriage in God's eyes. Once you have sex with a person not your wife, you have fallen short and to make amends, you must marry the person, even if the parents disagree, you must pay virgin dowry to be free.

What do you mean here? Do you mean men should marry women without the consent of the women's parents? Sex is part of marriage but not equal to marriage. If sex is equal to marriage as you claim, payment of bride price can be substituted with the groom sexing the bride.

yeshuasfootstep:
Let us teach people well so that they see the danger of touching any person they are not married to not to talk of going close to a married person. All these immoralities will not be as rampant as it is today.

Does Kelvin Ugwu preach otherwise? Is this not what Kelvin is preaching?

yeshuasfootstep:
Moreover, I did not see where polygamy is among the offenses punishable by death so there is no need for that.

Did Kelvin say polygamy is punishable by death? If yes, please let me see it. I need to learn more. If he said it, please quote his exact statement on that. NOTE: I am not calling you a liar here. I am sincerely asking an honest question.

yeshuasfootstep:
The issue of people marrying their relatives is also cultural. If their culture permits it and God is not against it, will I be so foolish to leave my own culture that God did not disprove either? So this one also did not work Sir.

Christians are not those who strictly follow their traditions. Christians are those who uphold only the traditions that are in line with the steps Christ took. The tradition of a place cannot be totally bad. As a Christian, uphold the christ-like aspects of your tradition and leave other aspects of the tradition.

yeshuasfootstep:
It is very clear that God did not forbid polygamy so it is unwise for us to be creating sexual chaos in the world by playing God. Check my article on polygamy to gain more insight.

Try to complete your argument on polygamy here. Do not direct us to read it elsewhere. Kelvin put his own as one article. He did not direct us to read something else elsewhere.

yeshuasfootstep:
Let me also take you to 1 Timothy 3 :12, maybe 13 also where Paul was hammering on overseers being husbands of one wife without mentioning other extra fine qualities which made you conclude that Paul was talking of it as a christian quality.

No, it is so that they preside in a fine manner and with great freeness of speech as verse 13 clarified. And it means there are polygamists also among the early Christians.

The Bible, in the new testament where Christ modified things and set standards for Christians, says a man shall take a wife and they will become one. If a man takes wives, is it still the same thing? Also, God made only one Eve for Adam.

yeshuasfootstep:
So, Paul out of zealousness and his desire that nothing disturbs the preaching of the good news placed embargo on brothers reaching out to oversee others marrying more than one wife. Remember that he is lettered and not a 'wannabee'. He can pass for today's theologians like you .

I don't think he is also married, remember. Should this also be one of the Christian qualities? Celibacy?
No. Just zeal for God's work.

This is very childish. The argument is about polygamy, not about celibacy.

yeshuasfootstep:

Moreover, I did not see where polygamy is among the offenses punishable by death so there is no need for that.

You did see that the Bible did say "the soul that sinneth shall die"?.

So, this is where you learn that The Laws God gave to Moses having stating the actions worthy of death was for the governance of man between men, and the remainder, He would handle it Himself!

And God has already told His Own Mind, which is "male and female" not male and females.

So a man who has already failed in one, how can 16 be a pass mark?

immortalcrown:
One, nobody knows it all. Let me teach you how to follow this your kind of argument. Kelvin has paragraphs in his article. Quote each paragraph and put your correction under it. Kelvin quoted and explained many Bible verses. Quote Kelvin's explanation of each of the verses, then give your correction under it. Is there any Bible verse Kelvin quoted and misinterpreted? If yes, highlight it with Kelvin's wrong interpretation, then give your correction.

Two, try to finish your points on polygamy here. Do not tell us to read your previous posts. Kelvin put all his points as one article. Since you already have articles on polygamy, copy things from there and add those things to this your very post. Do not ask us to go and read something else elsewhere.

Now, let me respond to some of your statements.
What do you mean here? Do you mean men should marry women without the consent of the women's parents? Sex is part of marriage but not equal to marriage. If sex is equal to marriage as you claim, payment of bride price can be substituted with the groom sexing the bride.

Does Kelvin Ugwu preach otherwise? Is this not what Kelvin is preaching?

Did Kelvin say polygamy is punishable by death? If yes, please let me see it. I need to learn more. If he said it, please quote his exact statement on that. NOTE: I am not calling you a liar here. I am sincerely asking an honest question.

Christians are not those who strictly follow their traditions. Christians are those who uphold only the traditions that are in line with the steps Christ took. The tradition of a place cannot be totally bad. As a Christian, uphold the christ-like aspects of your tradition and leave other aspects of the tradition.

Try to complete your argument on polygamy here. Do not direct us to read it elsewhere. Kelvin put his own as one article. He did not direct us to read something else elsewhere.

The Bible, in the new testament where Christ modified things and set standards for Christians, says a man shall take a wife and they will become one. If a man takes wives, is it still the same thing? Also, God made only one Eve for Adam.

This is very childish. The argument is about polygamy, not about celibacy.

Thank you so much for your observations. That is why I am a 'wannabee' unlettered and ordinary. With time, I will also treat your own.

Let me make it clear that there is nothing wrong in referring to works I have done before, but because of your request, I will bring every needed thing out here.
You are right because I know we find it difficult to research in this part of the world.

So look out for updates.

Thanks

yeshuasfootstep:
You are right because I know we find it difficult to research in this part of the world.

I do not find it difficult to research what interests me. The objective truth here is you are wrong for splitting your points into different posts and asking readers of this post to go and read those other posts. This is one topic and the writeup is less than a journal or a textbook. So, why would you ask us to read your previous posts? What you did here is like writing a part of your name in a post and telling us to see another post for the remaining part of your name. If we are to see different posts before we can know your points on polygamy which is just one form of marriage, I wonder how many posts we will be required to see when you discuss marriage.

immortalcrown:
I do not find it difficult to research what interests me. The objective truth here is you are wrong for splitting your points into different posts and asking readers of this post to go and read those other posts. This is one topic and the writeup is less than a journal or a textbook. So, why would you ask us to read your previous posts? What you did here is like writing a part of your name in a post and telling us to see another post for the remaining part of your name. If we are to see different posts before we can know your points on polygamy which is just one form of marriage, I wonder how many posts we will be required to see when you discuss marriage.

Just like you rightly said, the whole write up is very childish (Sounds as coming from same source as 'Nonsense'). Only those Child-like in heart will understand it.

Big people like you will continue striving after things to argue about.
The only debt I owe you now is to reply to your observations which I will do later, so you won't see my reply again on anything apart from subject of discussion. Thanks.

yeshuasfootstep:
Only those Child-like in heart will understand it. Big people like you will continue striving after things to argue about.

No child-like mind will sound as you do here.

Dtruthspeaker:


You did see that the Bible did say "the soul that sinneth shall die"?.

So, this is where you learn that The Laws God gave to Moses having stating the actions worthy of death was for the governance of man between men, and the remainder, He would handle it Himself!

And God has already told His Own Mind, which is "male and female" not male and females.

So a man who has already failed in one, how can 16 be a pass mark?

Thanks for your honest observation. It will be clearer soon. Thanks.

Ok. Coming to you my Oga, the person that received the ten commandments married two wives. Numbers 12 : 1.

How then is marrying of more than one wife a sin. Not to talk of attracting death. Pls show me in the bible so that I will also learn.

Yes. God made them male and female as it is stated in the bible. The same God knows the reason he allows man to marry more than one wife as we see in the bible examples.

So what I am saying is that we cannot be more catholic than the pope especially as we are seeing the effect of twisting the word of God to paint polygamy as very bad. Thanks

yeshuasfootstep:
Dear Oga Kelvin Ugwu, permit me to use Oga because of the warning in the bible that we only have one father and should not call another our father.
We are all brothers no matter what ( Matthew 23 :9).

Stop using God's name to peddle your personal views and opinions as if of God..

Jesus Christ never said we are all brothers, this since the same Jesus Christ said that it is instead those who do the Will of God - who live in continuous submission to and obedience of the teachings(and commandments) of Jesus Christ - that are His brothers - Matthew 12 vs 46 - 50 & Mark 3 vs 35 & Luke 8 vs 19 - 21

Kobojunkie:
Stop using God's name to peddle your personal views and opinions as if of God..

Jesus Christ never said we are all brothers, this since the same Jesus Christ said that it is instead those who do the Will of God - who live in continuous submission to and obedience of the teachings(and commandments) of Jesus Christ - that are His brothers - Matthew 12 vs 46 - 50 & Mark 3 vs 35 & Luke 8 vs 19 - 21

��� Brother, we end up saying the same thing.

yeshuasfootstep:

��� Brother, we end up saying the same thing.

We are not saying the same thing.

And this only one of many lies contained in your epistle to nowhere there.

Kobojunkie:
We are not saying the same thing.

And this only one of many lies contained in your epistle to nowhere there.

Ok. Oga kobo.

yeshuasfootstep:
1. Sex is equal to marriage in God's eyes. Once you have sex with a person not your wife, you have fallen short and to make amends, you must marry the person, even if the parents disagree, you must pay virgin dowry to be free.

2. All of these is in the bible and I discussed it in my post of recent, check it for the quotations. Let us teach people well so that they see the danger of touching any person they are not married to not to talk of going close to a married person. All these immoralities will not be as rampant as it is today..

1. This statement is untrue. God, again defined marriage as an agreement between a man and a woman, not intercourse between a man and a woman - Genesis 2 vs 24.

We see this where in God's Old Covenant Law, which He gave only to the children of Israel, God demands that punishment for rape is that the rapist marry his victim meaning the sexual act that took place does not lead to marriage - Deuteronomy 22 vs 28 - 29.

So it is false to claim Sex is equal to marriage in the eyes of God. Sex is just sex, marriage is marriage.

2. Teaching lies in the name of God is against God.

Kobojunkie:
1. This statement is untrue. God, again defined marriage as an agreement between a man and a woman, not intercourse between a man and a woman - Genesis 2 vs 24.

We see this where in God's Old Covenant Law, which He gave only to the children of Israel, God demands that punishment for rape is that the rapist marry his victim meaning the sexual act that took place does not lead to marriage - Deuteronomy 22 vs 28 - 29.

So it is false to claim Sex is equal to marriage in the eyes of God. Sex is just sex, marriage is marriage.

2. Teaching lies in the name of God is against God.

Oga kobo, be calming down.

It is not only even the rapist. Go to Exodus 22: 16 and see that even those ones you refer to as consensual sex is also involved.

It says, if he seduces and lies down with her. He must pay his bride price for her to become his wife.

What I mean by sex is equal to marriage is that once she is good for you to have sex with, she is automatically good for you to marry in God's eyes.

That is the knowledge that is lacking in today's world that make young men unable to count the number of women they have slept with.

Thanks for reading through, Oga Kobo.

yeshuasfootstep:
1. Oga kobo, be calming down.

It is not only even the rapist. Go to Exodus 22: 16 and see that even those ones you refer to as consensual sex is also involved.
It says, if he seduces and lies down with her. He must pay his bride price for her to become his wife.

2. What I mean by sex is equal to marriage is that once she is good for you to have sex with, she is automatically good for you to marry in God's eyes.

3..That is the knowledge that is lacking in today's world that make young men unable to count the number of women they have slept with.
Thanks for reading through, Oga Kobo.

1. I used the rapist example to show that God does not see sex as marriage. Instead God sees it as He defined it, an agreement between a man and woman.

Even the statement you have in bold reveals this. The marriage comes, not at the point intercourse took place, but instead when the agreement between the man and woman take place.

2. That doesn't necessarily work in reality since we have those who work as prostitutes. They don't really desire to have marriage with their clients so forcing marriage is not an option.

3. The number one reason young men do such things is foolishness. There are unbelievers out there who don't live such promiscuous lives. So this is an issue that links to lack of wisdom, not necessarily a knowledge of what constitutes marriage and what doesn't.

The yul case for instance is a case of a man who committed adultery and married the woman in an attempt to wipe his mouth clean. None of that fits with God or anything that God since even by marrying the woman, he also potentially commits adultery given that the women was previously married and the reason for her divorce may not have been adultery.

So let's stop dragging God's name into the muck of men.

Kobojunkie:
1. I used the rapist example to show that God does not see sex as marriage. Instead God sees it as He defined it, an agreement between a man and woman.

Even the statement you have in bold reveals this. The marriage comes, not at the point intercourse took place, but instead when the agreement between the man and woman take place.

2. That doesn't necessarily work in reality since we have those who work as prostitutes. They don't really desire to have marriage with their clients so forcing marriage is not an option.

3. The number one reason young men do such things is foolishness. There are unbelievers out there who don't live such promiscuous lives. So this is an issue that links to lack of wisdom, not necessarily a knowledge of what constitutes marriage and what doesn't.

The yul case for instance is a case of a man who committed adultery and married the woman in an attempt to wipe his mouth clean. None of that fits with God or anything that God since even by marrying the woman, he also potentially commits adultery given that the women was previously married and the reason for her divorce may not have been adultery.

So let's stop dragging God's name into the muck of men.

That is also why proverbs 7 : 26 says a single prostitute has killed a mighty army. That is to show you the power of casual sex, something polygamy is meant to guard against.

Think how beautiful the world will be if everyone have the right knowledge and know how God regards sex. Don't you think there will be more self control?

It means that before you think of sex, you will first think of marriage knowing there is no going back once you have sex with that person.

That is the angle I am coming from. No one is disputing that a male and a female is not the ideal marriage, but in some circumstances that polygamy is required. It should not be treated as a taboo because God has never been against it.

It beats my imagination that a world that is so much at peace with baby mama, prostitution, homosexuality, lesbianism, bestiality and so on will rise with rage whenever polygamy is mentioned.

Don't you see there is a spirit controlling that rage because Satan knows polygamy can control all these.

Regarding Yul's case, my statement is very clear on my first post. He must confess and apologise to all involved not for marrying second wife but because he cheated on the wife.

He should be commended for doing the right thing eventually. Lack of courage to do what he did is the reason for abortions, prostitution and so on.

Lastly, no one is dragging God's name as you said it but saying the truth as it is and giving the biblical examples to back it up. Thanks once again.

yeshuasfootstep:
That is also why proverbs 7 : 26 says a single prostitute has killed a mighty army. That is to show you the power of casual sex, something polygamy is meant to guard against.

Think how beautiful the world will be if everyone have the right knowledge and know how God regards sex. Don't you think there will be more self control?

It means that before you think of sex, you will first think of marriage knowing there is no going back once you have sex with that person.

That is the angle I am coming from. No one is disputing that a male and a female is not the ideal marriage, but in some circumstances that polygamy is required. It should not be treated as a taboo because God has never been against it.

It beats my imagination that a world that is so much at peace with baby mama, prostitution, homosexuality, lesbianism, bestiality and so on will rise with rage whenever polygamy is mentioned.

Don't you see there is a spirit controlling that rage because Satan knows polygamy can control all these.

Regarding Yul's case, my statement is very clear on my first post. He must confess and apologise to all involved not for marrying second wife but because he cheated on the wife.

He should be commended for doing the right thing eventually. Lack of courage to do what he did is the reason for abortions, prostitution and so on.

Lastly, no one is dragging God's name as you said it but saying the truth as it is and giving the biblical examples to back it up. Thanks once again.

Again.....1. This statement is untrue. God, again defined marriage as an agreement between a man and a woman, not intercourse between a man and a woman - Genesis 2 vs 24.

We see this where in God's Old Covenant Law, which He gave only to the children of Israel, God demands that punishment for rape is that the rapist marry his victim meaning the sexual act that took place does not lead to marriage - Deuteronomy 22 vs 28 - 29.

So it is false to claim Sex is equal to marriage in the eyes of God. Sex is just sex, marriage is marriage.

2. Teaching lies in the name of God is against God.

yeshuasfootstep:

Ok. Coming to you my Oga, the person that received the ten commandments married two wives. Numbers 12 : 1.

He married twice, he did not marry 2 wives.

yeshuasfootstep:

Yes. God made them male and female as it is stated in the bible. The same God knows the reason he allows man to marry more than one wife as we see in the bible examples...

Go look at the Bible, you would see that God has not yet judged any one eg, Cain, his grandson Lamech who was both a murderer 11 times (like his grandfather) and the first man to break The Law of "male and female" hence children of disobedience.

Same as the golden calf affair where God first warns us about Judgement Day,
Exodus 32:34
"nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them."

So because God is Silent and that He did not carry out any action against these disobedient people, you imagine that He has abandoned His Law.

Hear this warning if you may,
"Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil." Ecclesiastes 8:11

[quote author=Dtruthspeaker post=112436871]

Thanks for the reply.

Dtruthspeaker:


He married twice, he did not marry 2 wives.



Go look at the Bible, you would see that God has not yet judged any one eg, Cain, his grandson Lamech who was both a murderer 11 times (like his grandfather) and the first man to break The Law of "male and female" hence children of disobedience.

Same as the golden calf affair where God first warns us about Judgement Day,
Exodus 32:34
"nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them."

So because God is Silent and that He did not carry out any action against these disobedient people, you imagine that He has abandoned His Law.

Hear this warning if you may,
"Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil." Ecclesiastes 8:11

[quote author=Dtruthspeaker post=112436871]


Throw more light on this issue of Moses marrying twice. What happened to the first wife? We are all learners. Give your quotations so I check it up.



Go to 1 king 15 : 3, you will see how David was described as one whose heart was perfect with the lord.

1 king 15 : 5 stated David's sin and it did not include polygamy.

This is a man who has married up to seven wives before Uriah's case. See 1 Samuel 18 : 27. 25:42-43, 2 Samuel 3: 2-5.

Also go to 2 Samuel 12: 8 and hear God himself, " I was willing to give you your master's house and put your master's wives in your arms...
"

You can also check Leviticus 18, 19 :29 for list of all forbidden things by Elohim. Can you point out polygamy in the list?

Then, lets come down to our redeemer Yeshua, he spent more than 33 years teaching on earth. Not even once was he caught condemning polygamy. He even used a parable which centers on polygamy in the parable of the ten virgins waiting for the bridegroom.

OK, finally go to Matthew 22 :24 to see that Polygamy was not always planned, something must lead to it. Yeshua was being asked about the law which said that if a man dies without a child, his brother marries the wife to raise children for him.

This is a good opportunity for him to condemn polygamy, but he did not.

Then the question remains, who is this person behind demonization of polygamy. If you think very well, you will see that it is the same person behind certain people practicing celibacy, but we use to hear of several abuses and immorality going on behind the scene.

The same person is responsible for baby mamaism, lesbianism, homosexuality, prostitution and so on.

He use to be very happy when the whole earth is swimming in immorality like it is doing now. He will rage whenever teachings like this is going on.
That person is no other than Satan the devil.

No one is greater than Elohim or his son Yeshua, so it is laughable for man to condemn what God approves. Till Elohim says otherwise, polygamy is not a sin.

immortalcrown:
One, nobody knows it all. Let me teach you how to follow this your kind of argument. Kelvin has paragraphs in his article. Quote each of his paragraphs and put your corrective paragraph under it. Kelvin quoted and explained many Bible verses. Quote Kelvin's explanation of each of the verses, then give your correction under it. Is there any Bible verse Kelvin quoted and misinterpreted? If yes, highlight it with Kelvin's wrong interpretation, then give your correction.

Two, try to finish your points on polygamy here. Do not tell us to read your previous posts. Kelvin put all his points as one article. Since you already have articles on polygamy, copy things from there and add those things to this your very post. Do not ask us to go and read something else elsewhere.

Now, let me respond to some of your statements.
What do you mean here? Do you mean men should marry women without the consent of the women's parents? Sex is part of marriage but not equal to marriage. If sex is equal to marriage as you claim, payment of bride price can be substituted with the groom sexing the bride.

Does Kelvin Ugwu preach otherwise? Is this not what Kelvin is preaching?

Did Kelvin say polygamy is punishable by death? If yes, please let me see it. I need to learn more. If he said it, please quote his exact statement on that. NOTE: I am not calling you a liar here. I am sincerely asking an honest question.

Christians are not those who strictly follow their traditions. Christians are those who uphold only the traditions that are in line with the steps Christ took. The tradition of a place cannot be totally bad. As a Christian, uphold the christ-like aspects of your tradition and leave other aspects of the tradition.

Try to complete your argument on polygamy here. Do not direct us to read it elsewhere. Kelvin put his own as one article. He did not direct us to read something else elsewhere.

The Bible, in the new testament where Christ modified things and set standards for Christians, says a man shall take a wife and they will become one. If a man takes wives, is it still the same thing? Also, God made only one Eve for Adam.

This is very childish. The argument is about polygamy, not about celibacy.

I have gone through your observations, most of them stems from your zealousness to post without thinking to get exactly what I mean thereby giving wrong interpretation. Some has been overtaken by events.

I did not say the parent's consent should not be sought before marriage. I said even if the parents did not agree, the virgin dowry must be paid so as to be free. Exodus 22:17.

Oga kelvin did not say polygamy is punishable by death and I did not say so either.

However. if you still have arguments. Follow it one after the other like others are doing here.

Thanks.

yeshuasfootstep:


I have gone through your observations, most of them stems from your zealousness to post without thinking to get exactly what I mean thereby giving wrong interpretation. Some has been overtaken by events.

I did not say the parent's consent should not be sought before marriage. I said even if the parents did not agree, the virgin dowry must be paid so as to be free. Exodus 22:17.

Oga kelvin did not say polygamy is punishable by death and I did not say so either.

However. if you still have arguments. Follow it one after the other like others are doing here.

Thanks.

Let me repeat my simple points on your post.

If Kelvin quoted a verse that is not in the Bible, mention the wrong quotation.

If Kelvin misinterpreted any of the Bible verses he quoted, quote the wrong interpretation and put your correction under it.

If all the verses he quoted are in the Bible and he interpreted them correctly, what do you have against him on the topic?

immortalcrown:
Let me repeat my simple points on your post.

If Kelvin quoted a verse that is not in the Bible, mention the wrong quotation.

If Kelvin misinterpreted any of the Bible verses he quoted, quote the wrong interpretation and put your correction under it.

If all the verses he quoted are in the Bible and he interpreted them correctly, what do you have against him on the topic?

Ok. Thanks. Go through the thread well. We've gone far in giving out the differences.

yeshuasfootstep:
Throw more light on this issue of Moses marrying twice. What happened to the first wife? We are all learners. Give your quotations so I check it up.

God started speaking with Moses after his marriage to Zipporah, who saw everything God did with Moses and through Moses for Israel.

Yet she returned to her land. This means even though SHE HAD SEEN firsthand, The Lord in Action for herself, SHE REJECTED HIM, EVEN TO HIS FACE AND PRESENCE.

So, this divorce was granted by God, for only a holy woman can bear to live with Moses and clearly Zippy stopped being holy.

End of marriage.

Then, the second came in, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD, FOR WE SEE THE LORD NEVER STOPPED TALKING TO MOSES until Moses died, unlike Abraham!

yeshuasfootstep:

Go to 1 king 15 : 3, you will see how David was described as one whose heart was perfect with the lord...
This is a man who has married up to seven wives before Uriah's case. See 1 Samuel 18 : 27. 25:42-43, 2 Samuel 3: 2-5.

And he is the same one who took out time to clearly warn every man saying 'Dont go that Way! Death and hell is there. Stick to the wife of thy youth".

For he fell from the favour of The Lord when he cheated on his wife, Micah, long before he even met Abigail and all his destruction, disgrace, shame, despair started.

Which is why you see in proverbs 5, 7,8,9, you see very clear warnings, "drink waters from thy own cistern; her paths go down to death"

yeshuasfootstep:

Also go to 2 Samuel 12: 8 and hear God himself, " I was willing to give you your master's house and put your master's wives in your arms...

Evil bible wiill of course give you this interpretation, whereas KJV told you that passage means "I was willing to give you dominion over your master's house that even his wives would be your subjects" (for you know wives of kings are very high so tgeu will never be subject to any one).

But because of the lustiness and sexual fantasies of filthy men, your lust blinds you all from seeing that God will never ever give you somebodys wife.

Why, do you think Joseph was highly honoured? And do you see that even when obviously, thanks to lamech, people were already having 2 wives, but he stuck to his one? Same for Job.

"Follow not the multitude to do an evil" Exodus 23:2

Dtruthspeaker:


God started speaking with Moses after his marriage to Zipporah, who saw everything God did with Moses and through Moses for Israel.

Yet she returned to her land. This means even though SHE HAD SEEN firsthand, The Lord in Action for herself, SHE REJECTED HIM, EVEN TO HIS FACE AND PRESENCE.

So, this divorce was granted by God, for only a holy woman can bear to live with Moses and clearly Zippy stopped being holy.

End of marriage.

Then, the second came in, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD, FOR WE SEE THE LORD NEVER STOPPED TALKING TO MOSES until Moses died, unlike Abraham!

Thank you, please the quotation. I want to see where the divorce was perfected. Thanks.

Dtruthspeaker:


And he is the same one who took out time to clearly warn every man saying 'Dont go that Way! Death and hell is there. Stick to the wife of thy youth".

For he fell from the favour of The Lord when he cheated on his wife, Micah, long before he even met Abigail and all his destruction, disgrace, shame, despair started.

Which is why you see in proverbs 5, 7,8,9, you see very clear warnings, "drink waters from thy own cistern; her paths go down to death"



Evil bible wiill of course give you this interpretation, whereas KJV told you that passage means "I was willing to give you dominion over your master's house that even his wives would be your subjects" (for you know wives of kings are very high so tgeu will never be subject to any one).

But because of the lustiness and sexual fantasies of filthy men, your lust blinds you all from seeing that God will never ever give you somebodys wife.

Why, do you think Joseph was highly honoured? And do you see that even when obviously, thanks to lamech, people were already having 2 wives, but he stuck to his one? Same for Job.

"Follow not the multitude to do an evil" Exodus 23:2

No king will be alive for you to have his wife, it is either through death by war or natural death. In those days that war is permitted, spoils of war are usually live stocks, women and even men as slaves.

So perish the thought of having the wife of a living man. God can never be part of that. Why did David send Uriah to where the war is fiercest ?

It is because he knows it is against God's law to marry the wife of a living man. Let me repeat it here, polygamy is not always planned. It can be as a result of delay in child bearing like the case of Samuel's father.

It could also be as a result of love like case of Jacob and Rachael.

It could also be to adopt a widow like case of David and Abigail.

It can be as a result of sinning by having sex with someone not your wife. You cannot abandon such person to go into full prostitution or commit murder by aborting the baby. Bible standard is that you marry the person. If you are already married, you add her as second wife.

No one need to tell you that you wronged your wife by your action of having sex outside marriage, so you know the right things to do make peace between you, your wife and everyone.

It can equally be for other purposes like bringing organisation to your house in case you married a very difficult woman and so on.

Which ever one it is, the ideal thing is to go into it honourably by carrying everyone along and explaining the reasons. It is not and will never be a sin.

Exodus 20: 14 was very clear, do not commit adultery.
So I am not talking of cheating on your wife but marrying more than one wife which is polygamy.

Yes you have to stick to the wife of your youth, that is why there is no divorce once you are married no matter what except on ground of sexual immorality.

Drink water from your cistern is also in line. Cheating is not an option, do not go near a woman you are not married to.

Joseph was also a good example because he flee from death. Going near another person's wife is as good as walking into your death. We also said the same thing here.

Joseph and Job choose monogamy out of choice and did not condemn polygamy either.
No one is condemning monogamy either, all I am saying is do not demonize polygamy because we have clearly seen that it is not a sin.

Lastly your quote of Exodus on following multitude to commit sin is out of context because we are not talking about sin but polygamy which we have clearly seen from the bible that it is not sin.

Let me tell you today what the multitudes are into : Side chick, baby mama, sugar daddy, sugar mummy, sex outside marriage, lesbianism, homosexuality,bestiality, abortions, abuse of young boys and girls, incest, and all other immoral acts.

All these people that Satan has craftily caged into this situation are the ones shouting loudest whenever polygamy is mentioned because they know it is the medicine they need.

Have you seen how children cry and run away from drugs meant to cure them ? That is what is playing out.

These multitudes are whom Yeshua refer to as whitewashed tombstones. Everyone is clean outside, but filthy inside. Enough of the pretence.

Thanks.

yeshuasfootstep:

No king will be alive for you to have his wife, it is either through death by war or natural death...

You are talking about he who has already said he did do that which he knew should not have done.

yeshuasfootstep:

So I am not talking of cheating on your wife but marrying more than one wife which is polygamy.

Polygamy is always a cheating and always starts with cheating, for you already had a wife, who would never willingly let you have relations with another woman, not to talk of you marrying her.

yeshuasfootstep:

Lastly your quote of Exodus on following multitude to commit sin is out of context because we are not talking about sin but polygamy which we have clearly seen from the bible that it is not sin.

As you have seen and admitted, cheating, is a sin. And polygamy is a cheating.

yeshuasfootstep:

Thank you, please the quotation. I want to see where the divorce was perfected. Thanks.

You see God still speaking to Moses till he died long after she had gone. As with Saul, David, Solomon and Abraham, God stops talking with people when they become unrighteous.

Dtruthspeaker:


You are talking about he who has already said he did do that which he knew should not have done.



Polygamy is always a cheating and always starts with cheating, for you already had a wife, who would never willingly let you have relations with another woman, not to talk of you marrying her.



As you have seen and admitted, cheating, is a sin. And polygamy is a cheating.

I must commend you for the way you have diligently followed this discussion in a civilised and intelligent manner.

It shows that this forum has matured people. Thank you so much.

The only problem I see us battling with now is that Polygamy is cheating and therefore is a sin.

Please, answer this question truthfully.
Did Jacob cheat on his first wife?

Thanks

Dtruthspeaker:


You see God still speaking to Moses till he died long after she had gone. As with Saul, David, Solomon and Abraham, God stops talking with people when they become unrighteous.

Ok. Only that I would have love to see quotations that support these, but don't worry. I will conduct more research on it.

It has no direct bearing on the issue at hand.

Thanks.

yeshuasfootstep:



I must commend you for the way you have diligently followed this discussion in a civilised and intelligent manner.

It shows that this forum has matured people. Thank you so much.

The only problem I see us battling with now is that Polygamy is cheating and therefore is a sin.

Please, answer this question truthfully.
Did Jacob cheat on his first wife?

Thanks

No he did not.

1) Why, because of Law - "Consent, is The Law".

And his consent was with his second wife, not with the Wife God gave him, for Leah was God's choice and Gift to him, but he did not see it like that.

And if you look closely, you would see that he did not consumate (sex) the marriage until he had married his choice of wife and God shut her womb.

Law- A marriage not consumated is almost no marriage and voidable.

2) The Law of Fraud!

Fraud, duress, lack of consent and lack of proper notification NULLIFIES ANY ACTION TAKEN ON ANY OF THESE UNLAWFULLS and will render it nullified.