Deedat is critical of the Bible for recording how Judah had intimate relations with his daughter-in-law.


Inbreeding HONOURED
,  Under what category ,  will you place the Inbreeding of Judah, and his illegitimate progeny? All of these characters are honoured in the "Book of God" for their bastardy. ,  But what about the moral (of this story)? God blesses Judah for his incestuous crime! (Ahmed Deedat, Is the Bible God's Word, ch. 8, pp. 48-49)

Firstly, Deedat does not tell his reader that Judah was deceived into sexually relations with his daughter-in-law.

Not realizing that she was his daughter-in-law, he went over to her by the roadside ,  (Genesis 13:16, NIV)

Thus Judah did not do this knowingly. And Judah is never "honoured" for this action as Deedat claims. But the main problem with Deedat's criticism is that Muhammad had intimate relations with his daughter-in-law too! This is a well known event in Muhammad's life. Muhammad had an adopted son called Zayd bin Muhammad. Zayd had a beautiful wife was called Zaynab.

One day the Messenger of God went out looking for Zayd. Now there was a covering of haircloth over the doorway, but the wind had lifted the covering so that the doorway was uncovered. Zaynab was in her chamber, undressed, and admiration for her entered the heart of the Prophet. (Al-Tabari, The History of al-Tabari, vol. viii, p. 4)

Muhammad looked into another person's house and saw his daughter-in-law undressed. "Admiration for her entered (his) heart", but there was a terrible problem, she was his daughter-in-law, the wife of his adopted son. Then Muhammad claimed that God had saved him from this problem. First he said that God had cancelled all adoptions.

(N)either has He made your adopted sons your sons in fact. (Qur'an 33:4, Arberry)

This meant that Zayd was no longer Muhammad's son and that Zaynab was no longer his daughter-in-law. Then he said that God had given Zaynab to him.

So when Zaid had accomplished what he would of her (divorced her), then We gave her in marriage to you (Muhammad). (Qur'an 33:37, Arberry)

Judah was deceived into intimate relations with his daughter-in-law, Muhammad was not. The fact that Muhammad and Zaynab eventually got married does not justify this event, and adoption is not an evil institution that needs to be abolished.

The fact is Muhammad looked into another person's house and saw a woman undressed. This lead to "revelations" that allowed him to fulfil his desire and take her to be his wife. Be honest, Muhammad is making up revelations to suit his own desires. If anyone else had such revelations we would rightly reject them as false, but when Muhammad has these revelations Islamic leaders tell us it is a miracle of God.

DAUGHTERS SEDUCE THEIR FATHER
Read Genesis 19, verses 30 to the end and mark again in "red" the words and phrases deserving this honour (of being censored). Do not hesitate and procrastinate. ,  To continue: the "history" has it that, night after night, the daughters of Lot seduced their drunken father with the noble (?) motive of preserving their father's "seed". ,  No decent reader can read the seduction of Lot to his mother, sister or daughter, not even to his fiancee if she is a chaste and moral woman. Yet you will come across perverted people who will gorge this filth. Tastes can be cultivated! (Ahmed Deedat, Is the Bible God's Word, ch. 8, p. 50)

Deedat refers to the incident of Lot's daughters having intimate relations with their father. His conclusion is that the Bible is a filthy book, a bad example, and unworthy to be called the Word of God. Deedat's comments are wrong for the following reasons.

The Bible records what humans are like - and we are sinful. Lot and his daughters sinned and it is not wrong to record that this happened. The Bible is clear that Lot's actions are not an example for us to follow.

No one is to approach any close relative to have intimate relations. (Leviticus 18:6, NIV)

Do not have intimate relations with both a woman and her daughter. (Leviticus 18:17, NIV)

However, for many Muslims there is another problem with what the Bible says. Muslims consider Lot to be a prophet and that prophets do not sin. Therefore to say that a prophet behaved this way is unacceptable. However, the Qur'an and Sunnah also record that the prophets sinned seriously. For instance, it says that Adam was the first idolater.

It is He who created you out of one living soul (Adam), and made of him his spouse that he might rest in her. Then, when he covered her, she bore a light burden and passed by with it; but when it became heavy they cried to God their Lord, "If Thou givest us a righteous son, we indeed shall be of the thankful." Thereafter, when He gave them a righteous son, they assigned Him associates in that He had given them; but God is high exalted above that they associate. (Qur'an 7:189-190, Arberry)

Muhammad also sinned this way in the famous event of the Satanic Verses. One day when Muhammad was reciting Sura 53 he recited these words to his tribe:

Have you thought of al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third ,  these are the exalted Gharaniq (a high flying bird) whose intercession is approved. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, pp. 165-166)
Al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat were some of the local idols worshiped in Mecca. Previously Muhammad had spoken against them in his monotheist preaching but now he recited that their "intercession is approved". When Muhammad's tribe heard what he had said they accepted him as a prophet.

Then Gabriel came to the apostle and said, "What have you done, Muhammad? You have read to these people something I did not bring you from God and you have said what He did not say to you." (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, p. 166)
Then Muhammad confessed his sin.

I ascribed to Allah, what He had not said. (Ibn Sa'd, Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir, vol. 1, p. 237)

I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken. (Al-Tabari, The History of Al-Tabari, vol. vi, p. 111)


Accepting polytheism and speaking false words in God's name is serious sin, and for a short period of time, while he was claiming to be a prophet, Muhammad did this. It is true that Muhammad confessed and repented, and this is to his credit, but this event still shows a very serious failing in his life. This event must not be ignored because it is inconvenient for it shows that all people are affected by sin.

(Muhammad prayed) O Allah! Forgive my mistakes and my ignorance and my exceeding the limit (boundaries) of righteousness in my deeds; and forgive whatever You know better than I. O Allah! Forgive the wrong I have done jokingly or seriously, and forgive my accidental and intentional errors, all that is present in me. (Bukhari: vol. 8, bk. 75, no. 408, Khan)

So know (O Muhammad) that there is no God save Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy sin and for believing men and women (Qur'an 47:19, Pickthall)

Therefore, the Qur'an and the Sunnah both agree with the Bible that even prophets sin. Deedat does not know the Qur'an or even the history of his own prophet. This is why the message of Jesus is so important because Jesus never sinned. God sent Jesus for this reason and he is our only hope.

An angel of the Lord appeared to him (Joseph) in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins." (Matthew 2:20-21, NIV)

He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth. (1 Peter 2:22, NIV)

so much nonsense talk and hatred from the pretenders and "turn-your-cheek" actors.

is this what your religion taught you on how to poke fun on the dead and mock their old age and health condition?

Ahmad Deedat died a natural death after a life well spent.he suffered a stroke at old age.a stone did not fall out of the sky to knock him down.so i really dont know what downfall are the angry christians talking about.

the downfall that should be talked about is the downfall of the christian and missionary opponents of Deedat who debated him and lied against islam and the Quran.Anis Shorrous is in jail for arson.another popular evangelist Jimmy Swaggart was caught repeatedly even after his confession with pros.titutes and committed adultery.now those instances the opponents of Deedat faced are disgraceful and downfall from grace.on the other hand,illness and death is no downfall because everyone of us will encounter them and all will have to taste the painful test of death even the wicked christian that wrote the appallling article.

you can mock Deedat's health as you like,but his message made perfect sense and he individually demolished christianity in all its false doctrines and denominations with his powerful debates and lectures,which can be found widely on youtube.

[so much nonsense talk and hatred from the pretenders and "turn-your-cheek" actors.

Turn your cheek 

No one attacked him, cursed him or even mocked him amongst the true brethren of GOD.

In fact if you read the article patiently you will see that they even visited him and prayed for him and also warned him.

But it is a known fact that the enemies of GOD have been shut up when they least expected it.

I feel no anger towards Deedat, in fact I feel great pity for him and his followers.

is this what your religion taught you on how to poke fun on the dead and mock their old age and health condition?

Death, old age etc is not mentioned, only his health after he decided to personally pick up a fight with the king of kings and was finally broken.

Ahmad Deedat died a natural death after a life well spent.he suffered a stroke at old age.a stone did not fall out of the sky to knock him down.so i really dont know what downfall are the angry christian talking about.

It is not about the stroke , it is about the fact that he could no longer spew out his lies and was kept quite for more than a decade, even allowing the Christians he so hated to pray for him. Which for me shows the great LOVE among Christians.

If Ahmed Deedat was a Christian and spoke out against the Koran like he did against the bible he would have  been killed eons ago by fanatical islamists.
[quote][/quote]

ITISTRUE1:

Turn your cheek 

No one attacked him, cursed him or even mocked him amongst the true brethren of GOD.

In fact if you read the article patiently you will see that they even visited him and prayed for him and also warned him.

even when he was ill and was on his death bed,he still was patient and endured in faith and remained muslim.even on his death bed,christian missionaries attempted to use his pain to convert him and failed.even in his state of paralysis,he resisted bravely by using his eye-signs to quote bible verses and refute the missionaries.

But it is a known fact that the enemies of GOD have been shut up when they least expected it.

do you then consider the alleged "crucifixion" of Jesus a "shutting up"?
death is no "shut up".everyone will have a turn.

I feel no anger towards Deedat, in fact I feel great pity for him and his followers.

indeed!

i can see you trembled because another thread was started where videos of Deedat's debates were presented:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-729581.0.html

Death, old age etc is not mentioned, only his health after he decided to personally pick up a fight with the king of kings and was finally broken.

you are so dumb!

the man kept up preaching Islam and refuting christianity even when his health was bad and he was getting very old.the man died at the age of 87!

the missionary ofcourse who wrote the stu.pid article to mock the man did not mention his age because he wants you to believe that Deedat was miraculously "punished" for attacking christianity.he also did not mention that Deedat had preached decades before he suffered a stroke.

It is not about the stroke , it is about the fact that he could no longer spew out his lies and was kept quite for more than a decade, even allowing the Christians he so hated to pray for him. Which for me shows the great LOVE among Christians.

the man was old.no one expected him to live forever.he was an icon indeed and a hero that stood for the truth and rightpath.

christian missionaries do not offer anything for free.they always make offers with the hope of buying people's souls.

If Ahmed Deedat was a Christian and spoke out against the Koran like he did against the bible he would have  been killed eons ago by fanatical islamists.

at least Deedat said the truth and presented bible verses.he did not write up articles and books based on imagination like Rushdie did.he did not also burn the bible like Pastor Terry Jones did with the Holy Quran.

many have done horrible things against islam and they are still living.

also,if you watch a video of Deedat's lecture in australia a fanatical christian man wanted to attack him if not for his security guards.Deedat was out of reach that is why he was not hurt.and who knows what may have being done to him to kill him or make him ill?it is not farfetched we dont know many things that happened.

Beloved  Muslims I have deleted the original article about the 'downfall of Deedat '.


I confess I though it was inappropriate myself since he is DEAD , but there were portions that shed some good light on the truth.


However what we should do , is discuss Deedats lectures and refute them in the coming weeks, one article a week starting with this one called

'Inbreeding and Indecency in the Bible.'

Thanks

ITISTRUE1:

Beloved Muslims I have deleted the original article about the 'downfall of Deedat '.


I confess I though it was inappropriate myself but there were portions that shed some good light on the truth.


However what we should do , is discuss Deedats lectures and refute them in the coming weeks, one article a week starting with this one called

'Inbreeding and Indecency in the Bible.'

Thanks

you are playing the same missionary trick of adding and subtracting like they do when EDITING the bible and making versions.

you deleted the initial write-up because it was refuted and the christian missionary wickedness was exposed.if you did not see their wikedness as apprpriate you should not have propagated it.

^^^

Cheap shot, typical of Shiites , lol.

I am sensitive to talking about the dead in a way that is not godly, period. My conscience pricked me , hence the deletion.

You are constantly dancing over the entire internet looking to refute some concept or scripture that you do not comprehend yourself, just for the sake of winning arguments.

Reminds me of the Jehovah witnesses, argument  for arguments sake and end of it all, Hurrah we won. Reminds me of school.

Well that's not how we Christians debate.

We debate to expose your LIES and tear to pieces ISLAM's fabrications.

@LagosShia link

you are playing the same missionary trick of adding and subtracting like they do when EDITING the bible and making versions.

And yet you quote hundreds of biblical verses to support ISLAM and Muhammad 

In academic research we are told not to use any material that has flaws or errors, yet Islamists are all over the bible, grasping at straws to justify Muhammad and ISLAM.

Why is the Koran not sufficient for this purpose ?  Shocking !!!!!

ITISTRUE1:

Deedat is critical of the Bible for recording how Judah had intimate relations with his daughter-in-law.

liars will always be liars.when would christian missionaries stop propagating half-truths and sugarcoated lies?

Judah went out to pros.titute and ended up sleeping with his daughter-in-law,the wife of his biological son.

from that encounter,did Judah have offsprings who were "blessed"  and from that relationship was the ancestor of your lord and savior,Jesus.what is the moral of the story? the moral is God blesses children born through pros.titution and in.cest.and the man who committed the act,Judah is honored in the bible and what more honor does he have by being the ancestor of the Christ,Jesus?!!!!

Many instances of por.nography exist in the bible and immoral tales.Deedat exposed them all.

Thus Judah did not do this knowingly. And Judah is never "honoured" for this action as Deedat claims. But the main problem with Deedat's criticism is that Muhammad had intimate relations with his daughter-in-law too! This is a well known event in Muhammad's life. Muhammad had an adopted son called Zayd bin Muhammad. Zayd had a beautiful wife was called Zaynab.

Zayd was never Muhammad’s biological son.Zaynab was not his daughter-in-law.and besides,Muhammad (sa) made her his wife.he did not “use” her and was not out looking for pros.titute as the bible recount.

The shameless writer even uses a prayer (supplication) the Prophet (sa) taught his followers to interprete that the Prophet (sa) sinned.but this same christian fanatic would refuse if I point out that Jesus also sinned because he  said “and for give us our tresspasses”.

The writer does not even know how to refute Deedat.he brought in too many redherrings to drift the topic and added his own lies.

If Deedat is evil for pointing out the por.nography and immorality found in the bible,then please what do you say about this single verse:

Ezekiel 23:20

[size=18pt]There she lusted after her lovers, whose Cores (pe.nises) were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.[/size]

to expose the evil missionary,the original topic of the thread which was changed by the OP can be found here titled:"DEEDAT’S DOWNFALL":

http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Deedat/downfall.htm

ITISTRUE1:

@LagosShia link

And yet you quote hundreds of biblical verses to support ISLAM and Muhammad 

In academic research we are told not to use any material that has flaws or errors, yet Islamists are all over the bible, grasping at straws to justify Muhammad and ISLAM.

Why is the Koran not sufficient for this purpose ?  Shocking !!!!!

muslims do not use the bible to "justify" their beliefs.they use the bible to counter you whether in showing the falsehood of your beliefs or the truthfulness of Islam.the bible is not used to convince muslims and the Quran is indeed sufficient for us.muslims use the bible for you and your likes because you consider it as your book of divine authority.

besides,we muslims do believe in previous revelations and we do believe that the bible contains inspired verses we can fish out.but what you refuse to realize and accept is the fact that muslims point to you that the bible also contains ugly and wrong verses full of erros that testify and confirm that human hands have tampered with it and not everything in it is God's word or inspiration.

BIBLE STANDARD AND MORALITY:WHAT AN IMMORAL "WORD OF GOD" INDEED!!!


IN.CEST IN THE BIBLE:


1.) Lot In.cestous encounter with his daughters:

Genesis 19:33-35
33And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

34And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

35And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

2.) Jacob Son's Incestous replationship with his father's wife:

Genesis 35:22
22And it came to pass, when Israel dwelt in that land, that Reuben went and lay with Bilhah his father's concubine: and Israel heard it. Now the sons of Jacob were twelve:


3.) Judah (ancestor of your "lord and savior" commits prostitution and in.cest and pregnantes his son's wife

Genesis 38:15-18
15When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face.

16And he turned unto her by the way, and said, Go to, I pray thee, let me come in unto thee; (for he knew not that she was his daughter in law.) And she said, What wilt thou give me, that thou mayest come in unto me?

17And he said, I will send thee a kid from the flock. And she said, Wilt thou give me a pledge, till thou send it?

18And he said, What pledge shall I give thee? And she said, Thy signet, and thy bracelets, and thy staff that is in thine hand. And he gave it her, and came in unto her, and she conceived by him.


IN.CEST AND RA.PE BETWEEN BROTHER AND SISTER(children of "holy" David)

2 Samuel 13:5-14 :
5And Jonadab said unto him, Lay thee down on thy bed, and make thyself sick: and when thy father cometh to see thee, say unto him, I pray thee, let my sister Tamar come, and give me meat, and dress the meat in my sight, that I may see it, and eat it at her hand.

6So Amnon lay down, and made himself sick: and when the king was come to see him, Amnon said unto the king, I pray thee, let Tamar my sister come, and make me a couple of cakes in my sight, that I may eat at her hand.

7Then David sent home to Tamar, saying, Go now to thy brother Amnon's house, and dress him meat.

8So Tamar went to her brother Amnon's house; and he was laid down. And she took flour, and kneaded it, and made cakes in his sight, and did bake the cakes.

9And she took a pan, and poured them out before him; but he refused to eat. And Amnon said, Have out all men from me. And they went out every man from him.

10And Amnon said unto Tamar, Bring the meat into the chamber, that I may eat of thine hand. And Tamar took the cakes which she had made, and brought them into the chamber to Amnon her brother.

11And when she had brought them unto him to eat, he took hold of her, and said unto her, Come lie with me, my sister.

12And she answered him, Nay, my brother, do not force me; for no such thing ought to be done in Israel: do not thou this folly.

13And I, whither shall I cause my shame to go? and as for thee, thou shalt be as one of the fools in Israel. Now therefore, I pray thee, speak unto the king; for he will not withhold me from thee.

14Howbeit he would not hearken unto her voice: but, being stronger than she, forced her, and lay with her.



WHOLESALE RA.PING AND IN.CEST BETWEEN SON (of David) AND HIS MOTHERS!


2 Samuel 16:22
22So they spread Absalom a tent upon the top of the house; and Absalom went in unto his father's concubines in the sight of all Israel

BIBLICAL GOD GIVES AWAY THE WIVES OF HIS BELOVED DAVID TO BE RA.PED AS PUNISHMENT!

2 Samuel 12:11-12
11Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.

12For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.


ONANISM


Genesis 38:8-9
8And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.

9And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.



PROPHETS BUT NA.KED IN THE BIBLE!


(a) “And he (Noah) drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he lay unclothed within his tent.” GENESIS 9-21

(b) ‘And he (Saul) stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down unclothed all that day and all that night Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets? ” 1 SAMUEL 19:24

(c) “How glorious was the king of Israel (David) to day, who UNCOVERED (became unclothed) himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly UNCOVERS himself 2 SAMUEL 6:20

(d) And the Lord said, like as my servant ISAIAH hath walked unclothed and barefoot three years . . . ” . . young and old, unclothed and barefoot, even with their buttocks UNCOVERED, to the shame of Egypt. ISAIAH 20:3-4


SON OF "RIGHTEOUS" DAVID RA.PES HIS SISTER!


Howbeit he (Amnon, one of the sons of David) would not hearken unto her this sister Tamar’s voice: but, being stronger than she, forced (violated) her, and LAY (Were Intimate) with her.” 2 SAMUEL 13:14


“Man after God’s own heart”,DAVID COMMITS ADULTERY!


And David sent messengers, and took her (Bathsheba); and she came in unto him, and he LAY (had intercourse) with her. . . 2 SAMUEL 11:4


DO YOU STILL REGARD THE BIBLE WITH ALL THE ABOVE EVIL AND WICKEDNESS AS THE "WORD OF GOD"?IF SUCH ARE THE PRIESTS THEN MAY GOD BLESS THE CONGREGATION!!!

LagosShia:


[size=18pt]False Prophecies Of The New Testament (bible)[/size]

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-550247.0.html

More confusion from Shiites, not sure what this has to do with the topic, we are truly in desperate times !

@LagosShia

liars will always be liars.when would christian missionaries stop propagating half-truths and sugarcoated lies?

Lying was familar territory for ALLAH and Muhammad.

Judah went out to pros.titute and ended up sleeping with his daughter-in-law,the wife of his biological son.

Again you quickly skipped the article like Deedat always did, since you have no logical response to provide.

Let me repeat here for your assistance.


Thus Judah did not do this knowingly. And Judah is never "honoured" for this action as Deedat claims. But the main problem with Deedat's criticism is that Muhammad had intimate relations with his daughter-in-law too! This is a well known event in Muhammad's life. Muhammad had an adopted son called Zayd bin Muhammad. Zayd had a beautiful wife was called Zaynab.

One day the Messenger of God went out looking for Zayd. Now there was a covering of haircloth over the doorway, but the wind had lifted the covering so that the doorway was uncovered. Zaynab was in her chamber, undressed, and admiration for her entered the heart of the Prophet. (Al-Tabari, The History of al-Tabari, vol. viii, p. 4)

Muhammad looked into another person's house and saw his daughter-in-law undressed. "Admiration for her entered (his) heart", but there was a terrible problem, she was his daughter-in-law, the wife of his adopted son. Then Muhammad claimed that God had saved him from this problem. First he said that God had cancelled all adoptions.

(N)either has He made your adopted sons your sons in fact. (Qur'an 33:4, Arberry)

This meant that Zayd was no longer Muhammad's son and that Zaynab was no longer his daughter-in-law. Then he said that God had given Zaynab to him.

So when Zaid had accomplished what he would of her (divorced her), then We gave her in marriage to you (Muhammad). (Qur'an 33:37, Arberry)

Judah was deceived into intimate relations with his daughter-in-law, Muhammad was not. The fact that Muhammad and Zaynab eventually got married does not justify this event, and adoption is not an evil institution that needs to be abolished.

from that encounter,did Judah have offsprings who were "blessed"  and from that relationship was the ancestor of your lord and savior,Jesus.what is the moral of the story? the moral is God blesses children born through pros.titution and in.cest.and the man who committed the act,Judah is honored in the bible and what more honor does he have by being the ancestor of the Christ,Jesus?!!!!

You and the Jews are on familiar territory here.

I guess the Sunnis will be mad at you for saying this , since their beloved Prophet Jesus is described in this manner.

After ALL Jesus was one of your prophets , right ?

Many instances of por.nography exist in the bible and immoral tales.Deedat exposed them all.

Deedats mind like that of Muhammad and ALLAH was always on SEX.

In fact Islam is  a case in point, where a man suddenly hears from GOD only words that will enhance the gratification of his intimate desire.

Even adoption is banned in Islam today because Muhammad wanted to marry his adopted son's wife. Shameful moral ethic of so called Prophet.

Zayd was never Muhammad’s biological son.Zaynab was not his daughter-in-law.and besides,Muhammad (sa) made her his wife.he did not “use” her and was not out looking for pros.titute as the bible recount.

Hmm, no one he said he was Muhammad's biological SON, but he was Muhammad's adopted son, legally married to his wife, but since ADULTERY meant nothing to Muhammad he lusted after her unclothedness and coveted her for this wife.

What does the bible say about lusting after a Unclad woman and taking some else's wife.


"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart " - Matthew 5:28

""You must not covet your neighbor's wife. You must not covet your neighbor's house or land, male or female servant, ox or donkey, or anything else that belongs to your neighbor." - Deuteronomy 5:21


Based on the above scripture, Muhammad was a robber and adulterer. He had no intimate morals.

The shameless writer even uses a prayer (supplication) the Prophet (sa) taught his followers to interprete that the Prophet (sa) sinned.but this same christian fanatic would refuse if I point out that Jesus also sinned because he  said “and for give us our tresspasses”.

Jesus was sinless, even your books testify to this, or are Muslims really that confused !!!


Jesus Christ alone was distinguished from all prophets with His infallibility and was the only one to be singled out for His perfection; for all the prophets had sinned, and their sins were mentioned in the Koran. [Adam (Tah, 116); Abraham (Poets 82); Moses (Poets 20); David (Sad, 25), and Mohammed (Victory 2, Mohammed 21, Believer 57)] However, Christ was the only exception, for "high honored shall he be in this world and the next." (House of Imran 45).

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The satan touches every son of Adam on the day when his mother gives birth to him WITH THE EXCEPTION OF MARY AND HER SON. (Sahih Muslim, Book 030, Number 5838; see also Book 033, Number 6429)

The writer does not even know how to refute Deedat.he brought in too many redherrings to drift the topic and added his own lies.

Deedat was a LIAR !

If Deedat is evil for pointing out the por.nography and immorality found in the bible,then please what do you say about this single verse:

Ezekiel 23:20

[size=18pt]There she lusted after her lovers, whose Cores (pe.nises) were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.[/size]


[quote][/quote]



Another area of criticism against the Holy Bible is its metaphorical references to Israel as adulteresses who lusted after the Cores of its lovers (Ezekiel 23), or the Song of Solomon and its constant references to the physical stature and shape of Solomon's lover etc. Despite the fact that these are poetic and metaphorical statements illustrating spiritual truths, Muslims still find offense with these writings.

The problem with such arguments is that it fails to note that the Quran itself speaks in similar language. Yet, the major difference between the Holy Bible and the Quran is that the latter is not speaking metaphorically or poetically, but literally. For instance, Quran teaches that men will be granted access to a paradise that is purely carnal:

As to the righteous, they will be in gardens and in happiness,  (to them will be said,) "Eat and drink ye with profit and health, because of your (good) deeds." They will recline (with ease) on thrones (of dignity) arranged in ranks; and We shall join them (in the original: marry them) to companions with beautiful, big and lustrous eyes,  And We shall bestow on them, of fruit and meat, anything they desire. S. 52:17, 19, 20, 22 (see also 4:57; 76:12-22; 55:54-56; 47:15)

Even more astonishing is this description:

"Surely for the godfearing awaits a place of security, gardens and vineyards, and maidens of SWELLING bosoms (kawa'eb), like of age, and a cup overflowing." S. 78:33 Arberry (see also Dawood, Rodwell)

Ibn Kathir, one of Islam's premiere commentators, notes:

"Kawa'eb" - "SWELLING AND FIRM, NOT SAGGING." (Quoted from M. Rafiqul-Haqq and P. Newton, Place of Women in Pure in Islam, p. 30 – you can read it online.

To imagine that God would reveal such a verse, wherein he would actually say that in paradise one will find women who literally have firm bosoms is incredulous.


The idea of having intimate relations in Paradise has led some Muslims to interpret these passages metaphorically. This in turn has prompted the assumption that the description is merely a poetic attempt to describe that which is indescribable.

Unfortunately for these scholars, Muhammad will not allow for such an interpretation. In Sahih Muslim, no. 6793 and 6794, we are told:

"In Paradise,  every person would have two wives (so beautiful) that the marrow of their shanks would glimmer beneath the flesh and there would be none without a wife in Paradise."

According to Ibn Kathir's commentary on S. 56:35-37, a Muslim will be given seventy specially created females with two of his earthly wives, for a total of seventy-two maidens in Paradise.

In Mishkat Al-Masabih, Muhammad indicates:

[size=16pt]"The believer will be given such and such strength in Paradise for intimate intercourse. It was questioned: O prophet of Allah! Can he do that? He said: 'He will be given the strength of one hundred persons.'" (Bk. IV, chp. XLII, Hadith no. 24; transmitted by Tirmizi who classified this Hadith as sound)
[/size]
Even more amazing is this statement from Muhammad:

[size=13pt]"The Prophet was asked: 'Do we Be Intimate in Paradise?' He answered: 'Yes, by him who holds my soul in his hand, and it will be done dahman, dahman. And when it is finished she will return pure and virgin again.'" (Ibn Kathir's commentary on S. 56:35-37)[/size]

An editorial footnote to Ibn Kathir’s translation indicates that the word dahman means intercourse done with such "shove and disturbance." (Ibid.)

In fact, according to some Muslim scholars homosexuality will also be permitted in heaven! :

"Abul-Ala al-Maari said that homosexuality will be permissible in paradise. He based this opinion on Sura al-Waqi’a 56:17-23: ‘Round about them ARE MALE YOUTHS OF FRESHNESS,  and there will be huris ("beautiful companions with large and lustrous eyes, like pearls well-guarded".’

"Abul-Ala said: ‘If wine is prohibited in this world and allowed in paradise, the same will happen with homosexuality’ (Risala al-ghufran by al-Maarri and Khawater Muslim fi al-mas’ala al-Jinsiyya by Muhammad Jalal Kishk)." (True Guidance, pt. 4, p. 122)

To say that this is incredulous would be a wild understatement!

Finally, the Quran speaks of women as tillage that one can plow into anyway they choose:

"Your women are a tillage for you, so go to your tillage as you will." S. 2:223

According to some Muslim sources, this verse was revealed to condone backdoor:

Narrated Jabir:

Jews used to say: "If one has intimate intercourse with his wife from the back, then she will deliver a squint-eyed child." So this Verse was revealed:-

"‘Your wives are a tilth unto you; so go to your tilth when or how you will.’ (2.223)" (Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 51)

And,

"Ibn Abbas said, in question with this verse, that the Muslims from Medina had previously practiced a type of intimate relationship between husband and wife which they had learned from the Jews, in which the husband honours his wife with respect. When the Muslims from Mecca arrived, they brought a different standard of behaviour with them. This created a severe tension in the Islamic community. Muhammad answered it with the above verse and allowed men to behave as they wished. He allowed his followers anything that would satisfy their beastly lusts. (The full text of this hadith is not translated out of spiritual reservations).

"Ibn Abbas said: ‘Umar came to Muhammad and said: "I have perished." "Why?" Muhammad asked. "It is because I have altered the normal position of sex tonight."’ He meant to say that he had intimate intercourse away from his usual place. At first, Muhammad gave no reply, then he claimed that Allah gave him license. Muhammad and Umar were shameless and immodest. Muhammad should have guided Umar to God’s holiness and purity.

"Al-Bukhari narrated after Ibn Umar that al-Baqara 2:223 was revealed on the issue of having Behind Based intercourse with women. Al-Tabarani narrated in Al-Aswat, with a reliable chain of traditions, that ‘Your women are a tillage for you’ was only revealed to license Behind Based intercourse (Asbab al-Nuzul by al-Suyuti on Sura al-Baqara 2:223)." (True Guidance, pt. 5, pp. 48-49)

^^^^^^^^^^^
As I have asked the christians, always, when they say Jesus is son of God, I insist they tell me which wife of God bore Him that son. No Christian has been bold enough to answer, yet. Itistrue, this is your thread that you raised an allegation against Muhammad [as], apart from your religious lies against God, then Jesus and Mary his mother, above.

You will see how deceitful you and your religion are when I ask you to answer my question, providing fact about your allegation of wrong doing against Muhammad [as], a human being, a messenger of God which you have denied, never mind what you say you belief, your actions say otherwise.

[Quote]« on: Today at 01:28:39 PM »

Deedat is critical of the Bible for recording how Judah had intimate relations with his daughter-in-law.

Inbreeding HONOURED
,  Under what category ,  will you place the Inbreeding of Judah, and his illegitimate progeny? All of these characters are honoured in the "Book of God" for their bastardy. ,  But what about the moral (of this story)? God blesses Judah for his incestuous crime! (Ahmed Deedat, Is the Bible God's Word, ch. 8, pp. 48-49)

Firstly, Deedat does not tell his reader that Judah was deceived into sexually relations with his daughter-in-law.[/Quote]when you see a drunk do something, know that what he does the thing in his heart, with the aid of the alcohol that makes him lost the shame of doing it. Joseph was a son of Jacob. So was Judah. Joseph was seduced by a powerful woman, who he turned down so much so that it was a family scandal, then a societal scandal and led Joseph to prison term. When Joseph was going to be honored as a minister, he insisted that the woman speak the truth about the sexual scandal. . .

Judah on the other hand went for a road side woman. I have seen many of those in my days. I never went for them. If you went on any neighborhood in USA, there is a neighborhood prostitute, if thats your wish.



[Quote]Not realizing that she was his daughter-in-law, he went over to her by the roadside ,  (Genesis 13:16, NIV[/Quote]So sleeping with prostitute is a good thing, unless if your daughter in law is that prostitute, it is not okay this time? First the in breeding is because the husband of the prostitute is the son of the customer. His biological son, from his loin. he got his mother pregnant by having sex with her, the same thing he is asking of the road side woman, prostitute who is discovered afterwards to be his son's wife.



[Quote]Thus Judah did not do this knowingly. And Judah is never "honoured" for this action as Deedat claims. [/Quote]As I recall, today we have Judaism and Jews, what is the root word of each of the two? Where do you think they coined each from except from Judah? There used to be a country called Judea. where do you think the name was coined from except from the same Judah, the man who was a John?



[Quote]the main problem with Deedat's criticism is that Muhammad had intimate relations with his daughter-in-law too! This is a well known event in Muhammad's life. Muhammad had an adopted son called Zayd bin Muhammad. Zayd had a beautiful wife was called Zaynab.[/Quote]Alhamdulillah, I am not adopted. Imagine if I were. There are two women, one was the daughter of my adoptive family and the other from my biological family. I have no choice of wife, except from these two women. Who is truly forbidden for me and who is truly allowed for me, of the two? Should I marry my blood sister because I am not raised with her and that is not inbreeding or incest?

Or should I not marry my sister of different parent, not remotely related to me by blood except that we are both humans, from Adam and Eve, but all we have in common is that we were raised by the same parents? Imagine me a black man marrying my blood sister and give up a chinese girl that my adopted parent also adopted just because the world we think we are family?

Please, tell me who is the mother of Zayd [ra] the "son' of Muhammad [as], Khadijah [ra] who bought the boy as a slave and gave him as a gift to Muhammad her husband, or which one of the wives? You know there are many wives and may just find a mother for Zayd among them?

Incidentally, Zaynab [ra] is a daughter of one of the Uncles of Muhammad, making her his cousin. If Zayd is the biological son of Muhammad [as], Zayd has married the first cousin of his father. But how many true father can a person have except one, otherwise there is illegal relationship between mom and many possible fathers? Only a bastard will have more tan 1 father. Was Zayd a bastard because there was a father for him from another town, from another tribe. He came to Muhammad [as] and asked him to release his son who was now Muhammad's slave, a gift from his wife Khadijah.

Muhammad was wiling to release him, but asked the young Zayd who already acknowledged this man as his father to go with him if he wishes. The slave boy said that he wishes to stay with Muhammad, long before he became a prophet [as]. I wonder why a child will see his father but prefers his slave master instead; would Kunta Kinte had done that, even though he was in America, being a different place from "dusty" africa [i am making fun of those who think america is more than a place on earth. it isn't]?

Has Muhammad became the father of this boy and his real father is no more his father? Lets ask King Solomon the wise. In days of Solomon he was called wise because he listened and made wise decision between 2 wives disputing about the son who was alive and a dead one, of the same infant age, born to the same father. The mother of the living child said they should let the boy live, being raised by the other mother, while the "FAKE" mother insisted that the king should slice the child into 2, giving a portion to her and her co wife.

The statement of the real mother tells us that only a real parent is the parent and a fake parent is not, regardless of good quality from him or her to the child because blood is stronger bond [thicker than water] between mankind. Lets imagine if Muhammad [as] was not a prophet and adoption was eradicated by the greatest of all explanations; you are not related to this person for real. what you have is your own desire and it is fake. The son can marry your daughter, instead of marrying is own blood sister [marrying his blood sister is incest, while marrying your daughter is not].

If the above scenario is what we have, can this man be accused of marrying "his son's former wife"? Where is the blood relationship between Zayd and Zaynab [please explain it]? Muhammad has a cousin relationship with Zaynab, and there is no real relationship with Zayd. Allah says that all artificial are fake and are bound to perish or be wiped off. I am an adoptive father of a young daughter. She has her parents name and my children have my name. Imagine if I have real daughters. If the world were to end and there are on earth, my adopted daughter and my blood daughter [real daughter now not the fake created relationship of adoption], and there are 2 boys alive too; my son and another boy.

if they have to start a family, should my son marry his blood sister and let the strange boy marry the adopted sister, because his blood sister is just a little taller, and my son loves tall women? It will be unnatural even in that extreme condition to do that. Then imagine when we are in condition that there is ease; When adoption is declared as fake and eliminated, Zayd ceases to be Muhammad's son, which was untrue in the first place because no son survived Muhammad and no wife of his is the mother of Zayd. And Zayd is not a Quraishi.

Zaynab was a Quraishi, a cousin of the Messenger. If you know that Zayd is a Quraishi, then tell us who is his Quraishi father and whats his blood relationship to Zaynab, since cousins can marry? One better for you; who is his Quraishi mother, or his mother the wife of the Messenger [as]? It-is-true [like your name] that no son survived Muhammad, and all progeny was through the 2 sons of Fatima Zarah [ra]; Hassan and Hussaine [ra]. Muhammad is not a man leading to lewdness. He instructed us against it and he would not have been the first to do the things he disliked. The enemies of Muhammad [as] did not use this alleged incident to attack him, shows that it did not happen. And the enemies of Islam in Makka, and Madina if you restrict yourself to these 2 places took advantage of every opportunity they had against him; no one ever used this. Why?

Muhammad is unlike your uncommitted to good moral biblical prophets, one not capable of telling a tyrant his relationship with his wife, even though God was on his side, another unable to turn away from seeing a woman far of taking showers outside, in the easy place for all eyes to see, almost like town square, sending husband to die, having 300 concubines on top of 700 wives and a father parading the byways looking for cheap tricks and ending up 'unknowingly' and you are not ashamed of this event, with his real daughter in law.

Allah is unlike unable, incapable, regretting and scared of human attempts Yahweh of the Bibles. Read your Bibles, these qualifiers are all in there. Allah protected Yusuf from illegal sex that the young man was solicited. Muhammad is His last Messenger and seal of Prophets. He was the only one Allah sent to all mankind. Could there be a person with more perfect quality? Before marriage he was a virgin, Just like John and Jesus except that neither ever got married. When Muhammad married, it was to a wife, telling you that it is okay for have just 1 wife, even a once married, once a mother, once a divorcee, once a widow, even older than the husband. When the wife died he remained a bachelor except that Allah used him to show all kinds of acceptable conditions:

marrying again; even to all types; people of your age, divorced, widowed, virgin, barren, etc. With all of these, why go for outside of Marriage sex? It is not unexpected that Allah used him to show that a fake relationship does not prosper. After all, Muhammad is the same person used to show that it is fake that God is more than One and or that He has a son and that God does not answer the prayers of believers, allowing Jesus to be hung. You asked for the truth, you are getting it raw. he married his cousin Zaynab after Zayd divorce her, and the story was related in Surah Azhab; if she wants you. Zayd did not complain and Zaynab didn't either [unfortunately, i wrote a good piece her which i mistakenly deleted and time is against me, so there you have what i put together in haste].

hadith, always, must always agree with the Quran. When Quran says no illegal sex, the Messenger [as] who s described as the "living/walking" Quran will not be the person to perform illegal sex. GUARANTEED. Further, a thing shameful is not even reported outside, if God covers it, why reveal it to the people.

Let me ask you, and i already take it that you dont know; Which of the two persons told the community of this evil event? You need to open your mind.

Finally, Allah reports about the turning of face of Muhammad from a blind man in Suratul Abasa. Just turning of face and that was it. Imagine if it was illegal sex? I didn't see anything in the Quran, while Allah has forbidden illegal sex.

ITISTRUE1:


More confusion from Shiites, not sure what this has to do with the topic, we are truly in desperate times !

It shows not everything in your bible is correct.

[Quote]Muhammad looked into another person's house and saw his daughter-in-law undressed. "Admiration for her entered (his) heart", but there was a terrible problem, she was his daughter-in-law, the wife of his adopted son. Then Muhammad claimed that God had saved him from this problem. First he said that God had cancelled all adoptions.

(N)either has He made your adopted sons your sons in fact. (Qur'an 33:4, Arberry)

This meant that Zayd was no longer Muhammad's son and that Zaynab was no longer his daughter-in-law. Then he said that God had given Zaynab to him.

So when Zaid had accomplished what he would of her (divorced her), then We gave her in marriage to you (Muhammad). (Qur'an 33:37, Arberry)]/Quote]So the anger against Muhammad [as] is that adoption was cancelled and he married the wife of the man who used to be his son when adoption was acceptable? If this is the problem, are we saying that adoption is a real family, why do we describe it or qualify it as adoption then? If marrying a wife that was once married before how do you eliminate over population of single people, who actually want to get marry? When a thing is forbidden, becomes forbidden. If it is permissible, you can not forbid it. The Bible relates a story of brothers passing a woman around between them, one after the other and no one of them wants to get her pregnant. Who is closer in true God's ordained relationship; blood brothers or adopted father and son?



[Quote]Judah was deceived into intimate relations with his daughter-in-law, Muhammad was not. The fact that Muhammad and Zaynab eventually got married does not justify this event, and adoption is not an evil institution that needs to be abolished.[/Quote]imagine if Judah was a woman and she picked up a John who happens to be her son in law? Imagine if Muhammad was an old woman whose former adopted daughter's ex husband marry? Judah will still be a pig and Muhammad will be call up to date. The up to date is happening in America; the older woman is called a Cougar. If she is a younger woman with an old man, she is a kitten. What Muhammad did is legal. And I supported Film Maker Woody Allen [a jew; a person from the people who holds the key to the salvation of christians] married Sun Yii, the adopted daughter of his wife; Mia Farrow who has never seen a sugar daddy she didn't want.



[Quote]The fact is Muhammad looked into another person's house and saw a woman undressed. This lead to "revelations" that allowed him to fulfil his desire and take her to be his wife. Be honest, Muhammad is making up revelations to suit his own desires. If anyone else had such revelations we would rightly reject them as false, but when Muhammad has these revelations Islamic leaders tell us it is a miracle of God.[/Quote]How do you explain the revelation of Surah Abasa and even verses that threatened him, Allah saying his life would have been cut short and his punishment would have been doubled?



[Quote]DAUGHTERS SEDUCE THEIR FATHER
Read Genesis 19, verses 30 to the end and mark again in "red" the words and phrases deserving this honour (of being censored). Do not hesitate and procrastinate. ,  To continue: the "history" has it that, night after night, the daughters of Lot seduced their drunken father with the noble (?) motive of preserving their father's "seed". ,  No decent reader can read the seduction of Lot to his mother, sister or daughter, not even to his fiancee if she is a chaste and moral woman. Yet you will come across perverted people who will gorge this filth. Tastes can be cultivated! (Ahmed Deedat, Is the Bible God's Word, ch. 8, p. 50)

Deedat refers to the incident of Lot's daughters having intimate relations with their father. His conclusion is that the Bible is a filthy book, a bad example, and unworthy to be called the Word of God. Deedat's comments are wrong for the following reasons.

The Bible records what humans are like - and we are sinful. Lot and his daughters sinned and it is not wrong to record that this happened. The Bible is clear that Lot's actions are not an example for us to follow.

No one is to approach any close relative to have intimate relations. (Leviticus 18:6, NIV)

Do not have intimate relations with both a woman and her daughter. (Leviticus 18:17, NIV)

However, for many Muslims there is another problem with what the Bible says. Muslims consider Lot to be a prophet and that prophets do not sin. Therefore to say that a prophet behaved this way is unacceptable.[/Quote]It is your Bibles that say these things about your Biblical prophets. Don't blame Muslims for your lies that Quran exposes, correct you we do.We do not accuse any prophet in the Quran.



[Quote] However, the Qur'an and Sunnah also record that the prophets sinned seriously. For instance, it says that Adam was the first idolater.[/Quote]I want to see this verse. Hopefully the Christian wrote it somewhere, below?



[Quote]It is He who created you out of one living soul (Adam), and made of him his spouse that he might rest in her.[/Quote]This is the end of the story of Adam and Eve, giving us our source of existence, how we came to being.



[Quote] Then, when he covered her, she bore a light burden and passed by with it; but when it became heavy they cried to God their Lord, "If Thou givest us a righteous son, we indeed shall be of the thankful." Thereafter, when He gave them a righteous son, they assigned Him associates in that He had given them; but God is high exalted above that they associate. (Qur'an 7:189-190, Arberry[/Quote]This is about the disbelieving Arabs who disliked daughters and their gods are mostly males. It has nothing to do with Adam and Eve because there was no idolatry until human became populated again after the flood of Noah. The first person carved as idols because of their piety were listed on the pages of Quran. The story of the idolator Makkans are from 183 to 193 and not just the isolated 2 verses that are the core of your deceit.Read the Quran.



[Quote]Muhammad also sinned this way in the famous event of the Satanic Verses. One day when Muhammad was reciting Sura 53 he recited these words to his tribe:

Have you thought of al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third ,  these are the exalted Gharaniq (a high flying bird) whose intercession is approved. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, pp. 165-166)
Al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat were some of the local idols worshiped in Mecca. Previously Muhammad had spoken against them in his monotheist preaching but now he recited that their "intercession is approved". When Muhammad's tribe heard what he had said they accepted him as a prophet.[/Quote]No where in Quranic history that this is possible. The abrogated verses were all left in the Quran. Why not this one? The effort to rubbish Quran as Bibles are rubbished will not work. Quran is in the original language and no time do we have that Abu Lahab accepted Islam, because taking Muhammad as a prophet meaning accepting islam.

Surah Taba Tiyada [111] was about Abu Lahab never to accept islam and dies as a pagan, though the messenger was his nephew. Abu Jahal was never recorded to have been happy about Muhammad or accepted Islam upon the beginning of this noble religion in Makka. If this verse had been revealed, all the Muslims who migrated to Ethiopia would have returned. What we know was that there was no happy time for those who accepted islam in Makka until the victory return to her after almost 10 years in Madina, at the tail end of the life of Muhammad [as], suffering almost the 23 years from the hatred of the Makkans.



[Quote]Then Gabriel came to the apostle and said, "What have you done, Muhammad? You have read to these people something I did not bring you from God and you have said what He did not say to you." (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, p. 166)[/Quote]Was this after had threatened him to cut off his life and give him double punishment or before? If it was before, Allah did not relate the story as one of his short comings as He did of the "frowning or turning the face". If it is after He was threatened, Allah did not cut off his life and gave him double punishment, instead He praised him as the only Messenger to all mankind [Surah A'raf], a means of mercy and forgiveness [Surah Tauba, second to the last verse], raised to highest esteem and mentioning [Surah Alam Nashri ka], all mankind should call blessing of Allah on him if mankind knows whats good for themselves [Surah Azhab]. I just have to stop here, because my time is precious.



[Quote]Then Muhammad confessed his sin.
I ascribed to Allah, what He had not said. (Ibn Sa'd, Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir, vol. 1, p. 237)
I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken. (Al-Tabari, The History of Al-Tabari, vol. vi, p. 111)[/Quote]The lies against Islam is a book. Please pick it up and know that unlike Biblical prophets, no Islamic prophet will say the thing he has not been ordained to say. This statement that i just made is from Allah on the pages of the Quran. Allah is talking about the lies of Christians on Jesus. I am sure if Muhammad had said something he was not told to say, Allah will not let it come out of his mouth, The Powerful is unlike the weak Yahweh. Further Allah would have carried out His threat on Muhammad because Allah says in Surah Azhab that Allah is not shy to speak the truth; Allah The Almighty would said Muhammad [as] did such and such.



[Quote]Accepting polytheism and speaking false words in God's name is serious sin, and for a short period of time, while he was claiming to be a prophet, Muhammad did this. It is true that Muhammad confessed and repented, and this is to his credit, but this event still shows a very serious failing in his life. This event must not be ignored because it is inconvenient for it shows that all people are affected by sin.[/Quote]The bold will not wast away your lies. We have noted it. Allah Himself knows that you have lied against His elect.



[Quote]Muhammad prayed) O Allah! Forgive my mistakes and my ignorance and my exceeding the limit (boundaries) of righteousness in my deeds; and forgive whatever You know better than I. O Allah! Forgive the wrong I have done jokingly or seriously, and forgive my accidental and intentional errors, all that is present in me. (Bukhari: vol. 8, bk. 75, no. 408, Khan)[/Quote]Allah said of him, that all his sins of even the future is forgiven. Meaning he is prevented from committing it when the time comes, which elaborates what i meekly stated before that Allah would not allow sin like the one you stated come out of his mouth. Begging Allah for forgiveness is an act of worship. Reading Quran is an act of worship. Muhammad never stopped intensifying his worship so much so that his wife Aisha [ra] said to him, Allah has forgiven you all future sins. Muhammad responded, should I not be thankful for that reason? Allah says in the Quran cautioning Muhammad [as] to not pray all night long, 1/2 of the night a little less or a little more is okay. We muslims by this have been encouraged to worship in 1/3 of the night and the last 1/3 is the best. Muhammad asking for forgiveness in the above supplication is quality of sinlessness [something you truly don't have in many Biblical prophets, according to the Bibles, if you do critical analysis].



[Quote]So know (O Muhammad) that there is no God save Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy sin and for believing men and women (Qur'an 47:19, Pickthall)[/Quote]Allah guaranteeing his asking will be accepted. This goes against your assumption of guilt. Arrogance is when a person says I am sinless. even if you are sinless, priding yourself on it is sinful.



[Quote]Therefore, the Qur'an and the Sunnah both agree with the Bible that even prophets sin.[/Quote]The Quran does not. The Sunnah does not. Your bibles stand alone in this respect. You accuse God's elects, you are on your own.



[Quote] Deedat does not know the Qur'an or even the history of his own prophet. This is why the message of Jesus is so important because Jesus never sinned. God sent Jesus for this reason and he is our only hope.[/Quote]The bold is a good lie, because the Saudi Government can't help themselves but to certify him as a true "Crusader" borrowing the Christian's terminology, better yet a true man on the path of Jihad. May Allah make him from among the people of jannah. Amin.

To say that Jesus never sinned is to not be very analytical. John son of Zacharias, his Father, yes. But not Jesus of the Bibles; he cursed a tree to die because he was hungry. He hurt a herd of pigs to drown. He called a tribe dogs. He called people pigs. He called many people and groups varied names to include leeches, vampires/blood suckers, even Peter his rock he called satan. he disrespected his young mother by not recognizing him. He ran old people away from their businesses, called people fools which he said calling people fools will lead to hell fire. He top all of these up not with threat of slaughtering those who would not let him rule over them, but if it is true saying of God that God was unable to protect him, leaving him unprotected as in blaming God in his 'why has Thou forsaken me?" cry. We do notice that he didn't say father in this case, suddenly forgetting that he was the only begotten son, according to Paul who wrote it [and we say there is no corruption in the Bibles?}.



[Quote]An angel of the Lord appeared to him (Joseph) in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, [/Quote]has he paid the dowry?



[Quote]because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, [b][b][b]and you are to give him the name Jesus[/b][/b][/b], because [b]he will save his people from their sins[/b]." (Matthew 2:20-21, NIV)[/Quote]The tone has changed; he no more Immanuel [God with us which in essence does mean God does exist and not God is on earth right there], and he is no more the savior of the whole world [but just his people; children of israel. No wonder he preached to them and emphatically stated; i am sent to the lost sheep of the tribes of israel]?



[Quote]He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth. (1 Peter 2:22, NIV[/Quote]I do not come with peace, but with swords is not being a lamb, turning the other cheek. Family will be divided and father will be against son, etc is not about bringing peace or harmony. By swords if you not have a bag is not about being docile. I am God is not what he said about himself, who made him God, which will be a lie, since he worshiped God? Crying, weeping, begging God and says he is God elect who have been honored then blame God as in "why has Thou forsaken me?' is opposite of being honored. Telling us that he will return while a disciple is on earth is not truth since no one of them is alive today and Jesus has not returned because you are expecting him as a christian. If another comforter is not a human being, then this is an open lie, because we want ask what was a previous comforter like, Ghost like fire too? how did the ghostly another Comforter corrected mistakes he found when he appeared on the day of penticost, the only day he would fulfilled everything about him? how did he lead to all truth? how did he teach to all truth, even things Jesus felt the disciples were too immature to handle?

How did he glorify Jesus and stop people from thinking Mary was a prostitute, because it wasn't old man Joseph the carpenter that must be satisfied, but the whole community who knew that Mary was not married; the jews in the time of Muhammad [as] knew from their history that Mary was not married. Today young jews in videos on Youtube scorn christians saying that they are proud of their opinions of Jesus. The one man who presented time lime and compelling evidence against the opinions of the jews is Muhammad and no jew doubted him, though they may reject it still. After all they rejected Jesus from their mist, so what will be surprising if the reject Muhammad [as]?

Finally; how did the ghost speak?

What did he hear?[/quote]

@"ITISTRUE1"

to correct your lies:

let me repeat for you that Judah was seeking a pros.titute.he knew what he wanted but he got it from the wrong person.and show me a place in the bible where Judah is reprimanded for his act.

Muhammad (sa) got married to someone not related to him by blood.in.cest is when a person lies with someone too close in terms of blood connection.you dont know english,so how do you expect yourself to read a bible?

Jesus (as) is a prophet to all muslims (be they sunni or shia) and is loved by all of us muslims because we all have one and the same Quran which glorifies Jesus son of Mary (as).

adoption is allowed in Islam.Islam is far ahead in the sense that Islam ensures that the son is still called by his father's name and not by the name of his adopted parent.you can keep lying.

Jesus (as) is not the only sinless prophet.the Shia in particular believe in total and complete infallibility of all the prophets and messengers of God and also the infallibility of the 12 Imams (as).

verse 2:223 speaks about menstruation and when a man is permitted to have intercourse with his wife.it does not talk about the nonsense you're posting from "sahih bukhari" or here and there.

this is what Sayyed Muhammad Hussain Tabatabai has to say in his Quranic commentary known as "tafsir al-mizan" about verse 2:223:

Some commentators argue that the words as Allah has commanded you prohibit going into the posterior of the women. But it is the weakest argument; this subject is difficult to prove from this verse. The argument cannot be based on the order, go into them, because, as explained earlier, this order, coming after a prohibition, signifies only the permission to establish sexual contact, it is not an obligatory rule. Therefore, if one were to ignore it one would not be committing an offence. Nor can it be argued on the strength of the words, as Allah has commanded you, because; the command referred to herein is the creative, not the legislative one, as we have explained just now. And even if we accept, for the sake of argument, that it is a legislative order, it would be obligatory for only "a sufficient number of people", as we have explained above. And going against an obligatory order is unlawful only, when that order is personally obligatory on oneself.
http://www.shiasource.com/al-mizan/

we can see from the below the story of Adam and those Allah spoke about to Muhammad, the Makkans. idolatry has nothing to do with Adam. if you people know the idol he worshiped in your allegation, please tell us since you can name al manat, etc? The bold is an evidence of who the idolators are.


7: 186 Whoever Allah sends astray - there is no guide for him. And He leaves them in their transgression, wandering blindly.

7:187 They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the Hour: when is its arrival? Say, "Its knowledge is only with my Lord. None will reveal its time except Him. It lays heavily upon the heavens and the earth. It will not come upon you except unexpectedly." They ask you as if you are familiar with it. Say, "Its knowledge is only with Allah , but most of the people do not know."

7:188 Say, "I hold not for myself [the power of] benefit or harm, except what Allah has willed. And if I knew the unseen, I could have acquired much wealth, and no harm would have touched me. I am not except a warner and a bringer of good tidings to a people who believe."

7:189 It is He who created you from one soul and created from it its mate that he might dwell in security with her. And when he covers her, she carries a light burden and continues therein. And when it becomes heavy, they both invoke Allah , their Lord, "If You should give us a good [child], we will surely be among the grateful."

7:190 But when He gives them a good [child], they ascribe partners to Him concerning that which He has given them. Exalted is Allah above what they associate with Him.

7:191 Do they associate with Him those who create nothing and they are [themselves] created?

7:192 And the false deities are unable to [give] them help, nor can they help themselves.

7:193 And if you [believers] invite them to guidance, they will not follow you. It is all the same for you whether you invite them or you are silent.

@Itistrue; « #18 on: Today at 07:12:45 PM »
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[Quote]
Muhammad looked into another person's house and saw his daughter-in-law undressed. "Admiration for her entered (his) heart", but there was a terrible problem, she was his daughter-in-law, the wife of his adopted son. Then Muhammad claimed that God had saved him from this problem. First he said that God had cancelled all adoptions.

(N)either has He made your adopted sons your sons in fact. (Qur'an 33:4, Arberry)

This meant that Zayd was no longer Muhammad's son and that Zaynab was no longer his daughter-in-law. Then he said that God had given Zaynab to him.

So when Zaid had accomplished what he would of her (divorced her), then We gave her in marriage to you (Muhammad). (Qur'an 33:37, Arberry)[/Quote]So the anger against Muhammad [as] is that adoption was cancelled and he married the wife of the man who used to be his son when adoption was acceptable? If this is the problem, are we saying that adoption is a real family, why do we describe it or qualify it as adoption then? If marrying a wife that was once married before how do you eliminate over population of single people, who actually want to get marry? When a thing is forbidden, becomes forbidden. If it is permissible, you can not forbid it. The Bible relates a story of brothers passing a woman around between them, one after the other and no one of them wants to get her pregnant. Who is closer in true God's ordained relationship; blood brothers or adopted father and son?




[Quote]Judah was deceived into intimate relations with his daughter-in-law, Muhammad was not. The fact that Muhammad and Zaynab eventually got married does not justify this event, and adoption is not an evil institution that needs to be abolished.[/Quote]imagine if Judah was a woman and she picked up a John who happens to be her son in law? Imagine if Muhammad was an old woman whose former adopted daughter's ex husband marry? Judah will still be a pig and Muhammad will be call up to date. The up to date is happening in America; the older woman is called a Cougar. If she is a younger woman with an old man, she is a kitten. What Muhammad did is legal. And I supported Film Maker Woody Allen [a jew; a person from the people who holds the key to the salvation of christians] married Sun Yii, the adopted daughter of his wife; Mia Farrow who has never seen a sugar daddy she didn't want.




[Quote]The fact is Muhammad looked into another person's house and saw a woman undressed. This lead to "revelations" that allowed him to fulfil his desire and take her to be his wife. Be honest, Muhammad is making up revelations to suit his own desires. If anyone else had such revelations we would rightly reject them as false, but when Muhammad has these revelations Islamic leaders tell us it is a miracle of God.[/Quote]How do you explain the revelation of Surah Abasa and even verses that threatened him, Allah saying his life would have been cut short and his punishment would have been doubled?




[Quote]DAUGHTERS SEDUCE THEIR FATHER
Read Genesis 19, verses 30 to the end and mark again in "red" the words and phrases deserving this honour (of being censored). Do not hesitate and procrastinate. , To continue: the "history" has it that, night after night, the daughters of Lot seduced their drunken father with the noble (?) motive of preserving their father's "seed". , No decent reader can read the seduction of Lot to his mother, sister or daughter, not even to his fiancee if she is a chaste and moral woman. Yet you will come across perverted people who will gorge this filth. Tastes can be cultivated! (Ahmed Deedat, Is the Bible God's Word, ch. 8, p. 50)

Deedat refers to the incident of Lot's daughters having intimate relations with their father. His conclusion is that the Bible is a filthy book, a bad example, and unworthy to be called the Word of God. Deedat's comments are wrong for the following reasons.

The Bible records what humans are like - and we are sinful. Lot and his daughters sinned and it is not wrong to record that this happened. The Bible is clear that Lot's actions are not an example for us to follow.

No one is to approach any close relative to have intimate relations. (Leviticus 18:6, NIV)

Do not have intimate relations with both a woman and her daughter. (Leviticus 18:17, NIV)

However, for many Muslims there is another problem with what the Bible says. Muslims consider Lot to be a prophet and that prophets do not sin. Therefore to say that a prophet behaved this way is unacceptable.[/Quote]It is your Bibles that say these things about your Biblical prophets. Don't blame Muslims for your lies that Quran exposes, correct you we do. We do not accuse any prophet in the Quran.




[Quote]However, the Qur'an and Sunnah also record that the prophets sinned seriously. For instance, it says that Adam was the first idolater.
[.Quote]I want to see this verse. Hopefully the Christian wrote it somewhere, below?




[Quote]It is He who created you out of one living soul (Adam), and made of him his spouse that he might rest in her.[/Quote]This is the end of the story of Adam and Eve, giving us our source of existence, how we came to being.




[Quote]Then, when he covered her, she bore a light burden and passed by with it; but when it became heavy they cried to God their Lord, "If Thou givest us a righteous son, we indeed shall be of the thankful." Thereafter, when He gave them a righteous son, they assigned Him associates in that He had given them; but God is high exalted above that they associate. (Qur'an 7:189-190, Arberry[/Quote]This is about the disbelieving Arabs who disliked daughters and their gods are mostly males. It has nothing to do with Adam and Eve because there was no idolatry until human became populated again after the flood of Noah. The first person carved as idols because of their piety were listed on the pages of Quran. The story of the idolator Makkans are from 183 to 193 and not just the isolated 2 verses that are the core of your deceit.Read the Quran.




[Quote]Muhammad also sinned this way in the famous event of the Satanic Verses. One day when Muhammad was reciting Sura 53 he recited these words to his tribe:

Have you thought of al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third , these are the exalted Gharaniq (a high flying bird) whose intercession is approved. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, pp. 165-166)
Al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat were some of the local idols worshiped in Mecca. Previously Muhammad had spoken against them in his monotheist preaching but now he recited that their "intercession is approved". When Muhammad's tribe heard what he had said they accepted him as a prophet.[/Quote]No where in Quranic history that this was expressed as a thing possible. The abrogated verses were all left in the Quran. Why not this one? The effort to rubbish Quran as Bibles are rubbished will not work. Quran is in the original language and no time do we have that Abu Lahab accepted Islam, because taking Muhammad as a prophet meaning accepting islam.

Surah Taba Tiyada [111] was about Abu Lahab never to accept islam and dies as a pagan, though the messenger was his nephew. Abu Jahal was never recorded to have been happy about Muhammad or accepted Islam upon the beginning of this noble religion in Makka. If this verse had been revealed, all the Muslims who migrated to Ethiopia would have returned. What we know was that there was no happy time for those who accepted islam in Makka until the victory return to her after almost 10 years in Madina, at the tail end of the life of Muhammad [as], suffering almost the 23 years from the hatred of the Makkans.




[Quote]Then Gabriel came to the apostle and said, "What have you done, Muhammad? You have read to these people something I did not bring you from God and you have said what He did not say to you." (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, p. 166)[/Quote]Was this after had threatened him to cut off his life and give him double punishment or before? If it was before, Allah did not relate the story as one of his short comings as He did of the "frowning or turning the face". If it is after He was threatened, Allah did not cut off his life and gave him double punishment, instead He praised him as the only Messenger to all mankind [Surah A'raf], a means of mercy and forgiveness [Surah Tauba, second to the last verse], raised to highest esteem and mentioning [Surah Alam Nashri ka], all mankind should call blessing of Allah on him if mankind knows whats good for themselves [Surah Azhab]. I just have to stop here, because my time is precious.




[Quote]Then Muhammad confessed his sin.
I ascribed to Allah, what He had not said. (Ibn Sa'd, Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir, vol. 1, p. 237)
I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken. (Al-Tabari, The History of Al-Tabari, vol. vi, p. 111)
[/Quote]The lies on Muhammad is a book. Please pick it up and know that unlike Biblical prophets, no Islamic prophet will say the thing he had not been ordained to say. This statement that i just made is from Allah on the pages of the Quran. Allah is talking about the lies of Christians on Jesus. I am sure if Muhammad had said something he was not told to say, Allah will not let it come out of his mouth, The Powerful is unlike the weak Yahweh. Further Allah would have carried out His threat on Muhammad because Allah says in Surah Azhab that Allah is not shy to speak the truth; Allah The Almighty would said Muhammad [as] did such and such.




[Quote]Accepting polytheism and speaking false words in God's name is serious sin, and for a short period of time, while he was claiming to be a prophet, Muhammad did this. It is true that Muhammad confessed and repented, and this is to his credit, but this event still shows a very serious failing in his life. This event must not be ignored because it is inconvenient for it shows that all people are affected by sin.[/Quote]The bold will not wash away your lies. We have noted it. Allah Himself knows that you have lied against His elect.




[Quote]Muhammad prayed) O Allah! Forgive my mistakes and my ignorance and my exceeding the limit (boundaries) of righteousness in my deeds; and forgive whatever You know better than I. O Allah! Forgive the wrong I have done jokingly or seriously, and forgive my accidental and intentional errors, all that is present in me. (Bukhari: vol. 8, bk. 75, no. 408, Khan)[/Quote]Allah said of him, that all his sins of even the future is forgiven. Meaning he is prevented from committing it when the time comes, which elaborates what i meekly stated before that Allah would not allow sin like the one you stated come out of his mouth. Begging Allah for forgiveness is an act of worship. Reading Quran is an act of worship. Muhammad never stopped intensifying his worship so much so that his wife Aisha [ra] said to him, Allah has forgiven you all future sins. Muhammad responded, should I not be thankful for that reason? Allah says in the Quran cautioning Muhammad [as] to not pray all night long, 1/2 of the night a little less or a little more is okay. We muslims by this have been encouraged to worship in 1/3 of the night and the last 1/3 is the best. Muhammad asking for forgiveness in the above supplication is quality of sinless-ness [something you truly don't have in many Biblical prophets, according to the Bibles, if you do critical analysis].




[Quote]So know (O Muhammad) that there is no God save Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy sin and for believing men and women (Qur'an 47:19, Pickthall)[/Quote]Allah guaranteeing his asking will be accepted. This goes against your assumption of guilt. Arrogance is when a person says I am sinless. even if you are sinless, priding yourself on it is sinful. Never there was a prayer that came from his mouth, except that it was answered. Never did he say anything except it was inspired by God in him, and it comes to pass.




[Quote]Therefore, the Qur'an and the Sunnah both agree with the Bible that even prophets sin.[/Quote]The Quran does not. The Sunnah does not. Your bibles stand alone in this respect. You accuse God's elects, you are on your own.




[Quote]Deedat does not know the Qur'an or even the history of his own prophet. This is why the message of Jesus is so important because Jesus never sinned. God sent Jesus for this reason and he is our only hope.[/Quote]The bold is a good lie, because the Saudi Government can't help themselves but to certify him as a true "Crusader" borrowing the Christian's terminology, better yet a true man on the path of Jihad. May Allah make him from among the people of jannah. Amin. The muslim communities gave him so many awards that there is no need to list them. No muslim that was a muslim that said Deedat was ignorant of Quran or the history of the Prophet [as]. Well the christian writer true to the legendary of Christianity penned against Deedat when he is no more here to act against the lies, just like they penned lies against Jesus son of Mary.

To say that Jesus never sinned is to not be very analytical of Biblical verses. John son of Zacharias, his Father, yes, because the bible did not record any evil against them. John lost his head because he did not participate in evil. But not Jesus of the Bibles; he cursed a tree to die because he was hungry. He hurt a herd of pigs to drown. He called a tribe dogs. He called people pigs. He called many people and groups varied names to include leeches, vampires/blood suckers, even Peter his rock he called satan. he disrespected his young mother by not recognizing him. He ran old people away from their businesses, called people fools which he said calling people fools will lead to hell fire. He top all of these up not with threat of slaughtering those who would not let him rule over them, but if it is true saying of God that God was unable to protect him, leaving him unprotected as in blaming God in his 'why has Thou forsaken me?" cry. We do notice that he didn't say father in this case, suddenly forgetting that he was the only begotten son, according to Paul who wrote it [and we say there is no corruption in the Bibles?}.




[Quote]An angel of the Lord appeared to him (Joseph) in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife,
[/Quote]has he paid the dowry at the time the angel was talking to him? Is Joseph truly son of David? Are we truly children of Adam? So when Islam says Mary is sister of Aaron, why the uproar of 'the Quran makes a mistake" coming from the enemies of islam, Christians?




[Quote]because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins." (Matthew 2:20-21, NIV)[/Quote]The tone has changed; he's no more Immanuel [God with us which in essence does mean God does exist and not God is on earth right there], and he is no more the savior of the whole world [but just his people; children of israel. No wonder he preached to them and emphatically stated; i am sent to the lost sheep of the tribes of israel]?




[Quote]He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth. (1 Peter 2:22, NIV[/Quote]I do not come with peace, but with swords is not being a lamb, turning the other cheek. Family will be divided and father will be against son, etc is not about bringing peace or harmony. By swords if you not have a bag is not about being docile. I am God is not what he said about himself, who made him God, which will be a lie, since he worshiped God? Crying, weeping, begging God and says he is God elect who have been honored then blame God as in "why has Thou forsaken me?' is opposite of being honored. Telling us that he will return while a disciple is on earth is not truth since no one of them is alive today and Jesus has not returned because you are expecting him as a christian. If another comforter is not a human being, then this is an open lie, because we want ask what was a previous comforter like, Ghost like fire too? how did the ghostly another Comforter corrected mistakes he found when he appeared on the day of penticost, the only day he would fulfilled everything about him? how did he lead to all truth? how did he teach to all truth, even things Jesus felt the disciples were too immature to handle?

How did he glorify Jesus and stop people from thinking Mary was a LovePeddler, because it wasn't old man Joseph the carpenter that must be satisfied, but the whole community who knew that Mary was not married; the jews in the time of Muhammad [as] knew from their history that Mary was not married. Today young jews in videos on Youtube scorn christians saying that they are proud of their opinions of Jesus. The one man who presented time lime and compelling evidence against the opinions of the jews is Muhammad and no jew doubted him, though they may reject it still. After all they rejected Jesus from their mist, so what will be surprising if the reject Muhammad [as]?

Finally; how did the ghost speak?

What did he hear?
[/quote]

Fellow TRUE Christians,


There is always more that can be said to refute the claims of a Muslim in a debate, and the unfortunate reality is that to refute an unfounded claim takes 50 times more work than it takes for the other side to regurgitate mantra. Of course, once you do, they simply change the subject and/or attack you, your beliefs, and/or your country.

You can't blame them. They obviously have no basis for their beliefs other than they are told this is what they are to believe. And since they are creatures of thoughtless obedience, they have no abilities nor desire to use rational thought and logic to formulate a response on their own. Therefore they have no choice but to change the subject once you refute the lines that they have in their script.


The message in the Qur'an is in every way in direct opposition to Yahweh's Scripture, the most glaring of which is the fact that Yahweh's description of Heaven is simply existing with Him, and Hell is simply existing separated from Him. In Islam, Heaven is obviously defined as something rather embarrassing and morally depraved. But that is nothing compared to the stark contrast of Hell. Islam graphically depicts Hell as consisting of eternal physical torture that is personally metered out by Allah!



The reasons why there is so much of the Torah and Gospels in the Qur'an is that Muhammad was woefully mentally incapable of contriving the religious base that he needed to pull off his scheme, so he had to pay Rabbis to get the background and foundations he required to pull off his business plan to gain power, money, and sex. This information comes directly from Islam's own scriptures, by the way.


Enough said.

Edited from an excerpt on Prophet of DOOM .

@the above blabber

making presidential speech nor dey prove say u dey follow the right path.