triplechoice:

Please focus on what I drew your attention to in your comment. It's not about your organisation, but whether it's possible to have a more profitable personal relationship with an invisible person without having it first with a visible person. Your Bible says personal relationship with a visible person is the first step and key to having any kind of good personal relationship with an invisible person.
Are you rejecting that?

This is why i said "you concluded for me"

Next time just calmly ask thought provoking questions instead of jumping to conclusions after reading people's comments.

Buhari is a human being surely you can't have a PERSONAL relationship with him if you've never been in any organized setting with him!

That's exactly what God's word found at 1John 4:8 is emphasizing.

For instance i am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and i believe that my fellow believers are in all the countries of the world today, so picking up weapons in support of a politician to kill his own opposers shows lack of sense because it will surely lead into killing my fellow believers whom i supposed to show LOVE. But if i should discard that and go ahead to kill them in support of the politician then where is my LOVE for God when i'm killing my fellow believers with whom i am praising the same God?

That is why an ORGANIZATION of VISIBLE BEINGS comes to mind first before claiming you have a personal relationship with the INVISIBLE SUPREME BEING: GOD!

MaxInDHouse:

It's through praying that we can communicate with God i only used texting as an illustration!

Then the illustration wasn't suitable.

Wilgrea7:

Now you're just trying to be shady.
Like Dtruthspeaker, you've resorted to selective quoting, while ignoring the rest of my response where your argument has been clearly debunked.
I'm not going to waste my time repeating myself. When you've actually read the whole of my response, and can come up with a reasonable counterARGUMENT, I'll be happy to engage.

Oh you've forgotten so quickly that i'm not an atheist so winning arguments doesn't freak me.

Sorry i'm not interested in ARGUMENTS {Titus 3:9} rather i'm searching for the lost sheep of the house of Israel {Matthew 10:6} who may be interested in having a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with my own God!

triplechoice:

Then the illustration wasn't suitable.

Well if you say so, IF YOU SAY SO!

MaxInDHouse:


Oh you've forgotten so quickly that i'm not an atheist so winning arguments doesn't freak me.

Sorry i'm not interested in ARGUMENTS {Titus 3:9} rather i'm searching for the lost sheep of the house of Israel {Matthew 10:6} who may be interested in having a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with my own God!

Translation: you have no rebuttal.

Wilgrea7:

Translation: you have no rebuttal.

If you say so my friend, IF YOU SAY SO!

MaxInDHouse:


This is why i said "you concluded for me"

Next time just calmly ask thought provoking questions instead of jumping to conclusions after reading people's comments.

Buhari is a human being surely you can't have a PERSONAL relationship with him if you've never been in any organized setting with him!

That's exactly what God's word found at 1John 4:8 is emphasizing.

For instance i am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and i believe that my fellow believers are in all the countries of the world today, so picking up weapons in support of a politician to kill his own opposers shows lack of sense because it will surely lead into killing my fellow believers whom i supposed to show LOVE. But if i should discard that and go ahead to kill them in support of the politician then where is my LOVE for God when i'm killing my fellow believers with whom i am praising the same God?

That is why an ORGANIZATION of VISIBLE BEINGS comes to mind first before claiming you have a personal relationship with the INVISIBLE SUPREME BEING: GOD!

You have come again with another poor comparison and roundabout talk

It's difficult to confirm your God exist, but not so for Buhari.

The next time it's announced that APC is going to have their presidential campaign, and it's certain that Buhari is sure to attend,just go the campaign venue to confirm he exist.

And know this, there's no where it's mentioned in the Bible that those you must love, must be fellow believers in organisation.

You just want to use the Bible to promote your organisation as the only true and perfect one . It's easy to see that

If you only love those in your organisation, the same Bible says you're not different from a sinner.

The parable of the good Samaritan should let you know to what extent you're expected to demonstrate your love There should be no discrimination.

Finally, 1 John 4: 20 has nothing to do with any visible organisation that one must belong to, before you can have personal relationship with any visible person. That's your own interpretation.

LordReed:
You can't have a real personal relationship with imaginary beings. The ones in your head are just an extension of you and cannot know what you don't know. Which is why the god never revealed anything people of those periods when those books were written didn't already know.

My simple challenge is still up, if you believe you have a relationship with the god, ask him to tell you my full home address.

Personal relationship speaks in the sense of individuality, not collective religion. There are many who are in a religion or relationship or Christianity because of others. Parents, friends, and co have a relationship and you all flock to the person's life or to church claiming friends or Christian.
A personal relationship with God infers you were a sinner and got individually touched and changed and started a vibrant journey as a believer and you are still in that journey. It doesn't necessarily talk about gossiping with God or whatever seems on your mind.

MaxInDHouse:


Well if you say so, IF YOU SAY SO!

You're very funny. After suggesting yourself that it was not a perfect illustration, you want to be evasive.

Na ur way be dat

triplechoice:

You have come again with another poor comparison and roundabout talk
It's difficult to confirm your God exist, but not so for Buhari.
The next time it's announced that APC is going to have their presidential campaign, and it's certain that Buhari is sure to attend,just go the campaign venue to confirm he exist.

Why do you atheists love arguments so much?
In fact it has eaten deep into your skin that you just want to argue at any slight chance with a believer!
Well i used Buhari because all of us here knows him the point of emphasis is having a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with this man even though you can see him vividly!

triplechoice:

And know this, there's no where it's mentioned in the Bible that those you must love, must be fellow believers in organisation.
You just want to use the Bible to promote your organisation as the only true and perfect one . It's easy to see that.

Now you NEED a Bible study but i'm not sure you WANT it.
Jesus spoke about LOVE for fellow humans in two different settings so try to assimilate which is greater.
@ Mark 12:31 Jesus taught his disciples to love their neighbours as themselves: This implies that what they want for themselves is exactly what they should do to other humans! Matthew 7:12
But @ John 13:34-35 Jesus gave his closest confidants a new commandment having to do with LOVE. This time Jesus said his disciples must have love among themselves just as he love them. This implies that they must be prepared to die for their fellow believers if the need be! John 15:12-13
So even though the enemies wants to kill them they must not raise weapons for the love they have for their fellow believers so they must be ready to die in that case! Matthew 26:52

triplechoice:

If you only love those in your organisatio, the same Bible says you're not different from a sinner. The parable of the good Samaritan should let you know to what extent you're expected to demonstrate your love There should be no discrimination.

So stop misquoting me!
Jesus said i must love my neighbours as myself meaning if i don't want to be killed i shouldn't think of killing people but how can i love the one who feels like killing or getting killed due to love of racism or politics?
So i can only love such ones by not raising weapons against him but as for my beloved JW brother i must risk my life to rescue him for i know he is no part of the world that always think of using violence to settle issues just like me. As for my neighbour to whom i have preached PEACE but he rejected it there's nothing i can do about him when he chose to die for racism or politics!

triplechoice:

You're very funny. After suggesting yourself that it was not a perfect illustration, you want to be evasive.
Na ur way be dat

Ọmọ i'm not hungry for arguments, so if you're OK with your conclusion i won't pester you nah!

MaxInDHouse:

Why do you atheists love arguments so much?
In fact it has eaten deep into your skin that you just want to argue at any slight chance with a believer!
Well i used Buhari because all of us here knows him the point of emphasis is having a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with this man even though you can see him vividly!

Now you NEt a Bible study but i'm not sure you WANT it.
Jesus spoke about LOVE for fellow humans in two different settings so try to assimilate which is greater.
@ Mark 12:31 Jesus taught his disciples to love their neighbours as themselves: This implies that what they want for themselves is exactly what they should do to other humans! Matthew 7:12
But @ John 13:34-35 Jesus gave his closest confidants a new commandment having to do with LOVE. This time Jesus said his disciples must have love among themselves just as he love them. This implies that they must be prepared to die for their fellow believers if the need be! John 15:12-13
So even though the enemies wants to kill them they must not raise weapons for the love they have for their fellow believers so they must be ready to die in that case! Matthew 26:52


So stop misquoting me!
Jesus said i must love my neighbours as myself meaning if i don't want to be killed i shouldn't think of killing people but how can i love the one who feels like killing or getting killed due to the love for racism or politics?
So i can only love such ones by not raising weapons against him but as for my beloved JW brother i must risk my life to rescue him for i know he is no part of the world that always think of using violence to settle issues just like me. As for my neighbour to whom i have preached PEACE but he rejected it there's nothing i can do about him when he chose to die for racism or politics!

I am not an atheist Mr Maximus.

And everything you wrote up there has nothing to do with the objections I raised concerning your earliest submission; that it's more profitable to have a personal relationship with an invisible person.

Sorry to say this, it's only a mad man that would annouce to everyone that he is having a personal relationship with an invisible person that no one else can confirm exist. It's mad talk actually.

Please I am not calling you mad, but only judging what you declared.

MaxInDHouse:

Ọmọ i'm not hungry for arguments, so if you're OK with your conclusion i won't pester you nah!

I am fighting you but just arguing over something with you, and this is normal here

triplechoice:


I am not an atheist Mr Maximus.

And everything you wrote up there has nothing to do with the objections I raised concerning your earliest submission; that it's more profitable to have a personal relationship with an invisible person.

Sorry to say this, it's only a mad man that would annouce to everyone that he is having a personal relationship with an invisible person. It's mad talk actually.

Please I am not calling you mad, but only judging what you declared.

Once again you're concluding for me!

Go through all my comments on Nairaland and quote where i declared i have a personal relationship with God!

JWs won't ever say that because it makes no practical sense but then we know that it's only through the way we treat our fellow believers (JWs) that will prove {1John 4:8} how close we are to the One we both worship in SPIRIT and TRUTH! John 4:24

As for your denial of atheism that's not new to me because i know that most atheists don't even know that they are atheists!

triplechoice:

I am fighting you but just arguing over something with you, and this is normal here

I will like to believe that you mean to say you're not fighting but arguing.

Well it's normal for ATHEISTS to argue for no just course so true believers only deliver our message and take our leave.

So instead of arguing why not drop your comment on the topic and do the same if you're not an atheist!

Image123:


Personal relationship speaks in the sense of individuality, not collective religion. There are many who are in a religion or relationship or Christianity because of others. Parents, friends, and co have a relationship and you all flock to the person's life or to church claiming friends or Christian.
A personal relationship with God infers you were a sinner and got individually touched and changed and started a vibrant journey as a believer and you are still in that journey. It doesn't necessarily talk about gossiping with God or whatever seems on your mind.

That is an equivocation. We all understand that personal relationship means that you have an individualised interaction with a person, you are now trying to say it means something else.

LordReed:


That is an equivocation. We all understand that personal relationship means that you have an individualised interaction with a person, you are now trying to say it means something else.

Yes, it means something else. It is what it is.

To tell people about his personal relationship with his God an old man once declared he drank tea with his God inside his bedroom!

JWs will never ever tell you that but each of us do our utmost to build a personal relationship with our God.

MaxInDHouse:
To tell people about his personal relationship with his God an old man once declared he drank tea with his God inside his bedroom!

JWs will never ever tell you that but each of us do our utmost to build a personal relationship with our God.

The only indication of that is peace among humans.

MaxInDHouse:


I will like to believe that you mean to say you're not fighting but arguing.

Well it's normal for ATHEISTS to argue for no just course so true believers only deliver our message and take our leave.

So instead of arguing why not drop your comment on the topic and do the same if you're not an atheist!

Thanks for the correction. That was what I wanted to say. Not fighting you.

Now, is there anything wrong if I quote you in order to respond to what you have said about the topic?

triplechoice:

Thanks for the correction. That was what I wanted to say. Not fighting you.
Now, is there anything wrong if I quote you in order to respond to what you have said about the topic?

Quoting people is not a crime but when you're quoting them try to know the type of person because true Christians don't waste our precious time on mere arguments, if it's not to TEACH you something about God's Kingdom we move away to another person (interested)

Wilgrea7:
So my question is really simple. If you indeed have a personal relationship with a God, then why do you need religious books?

Why do you need the bible,

Simple!
Because books are records containing many many valuable information which the reader can use to improve his relationship with God.

Since we know that a good relationship requires consistency, therefore the books shows us among many other information, that happened to Pharoah, must happen to people who behave as Pharoah did and what happened to Abraham will happen to people who behave as Abraham did.

Books and all forms of writing are terror to those who wish to suppress the truth.
Wole Soyinka

EXCELLENT!
Just as Mr Benz presented a car as gift to you based on your friendship and handed over to you a manual, if you disregard the manual surely you will misuse the car and how do you prove you cherish such friendship when you don't show appreciation for the gift received?

Dtruthspeaker:

Simple!
Because books are records containing many many valuable information which the reader can use to improve his relationship with God.

MaxInDHouse:
EXCELLENT!
Just as Mr Benz presented a car as gift to you based on your friendship and handed over to you a manual, if you disregard the manual surely you will misuse the car and how do you prove you cherish such friendship when you don't show appreciation for the gift received?

Exactment.

See what Soyinka said about his complaint.

Books and all forms of writing are terror to those who wish to suppress the truth.
Wole Soyinka

Dtruthspeaker:

Exactment.
See what Soyinka said about his complaint.
Books and all forms of writing are terror to those who wish to suppress the truth.
Wole Soyinka

The man is just a FOOL.
Of course what he said is actually against himself because the Bible is also a book that's to be read carefully, studied diligently, meditated upon thoroughly and prayerfully considered.
Wole is referring to books written by humans like himself to change the mindset of his fellow humans so he's not really consistent with his own utterances!

God created humans in His own image {Genesis 1:26} this means that all sane humans will appreciate knowledge because it gives us a sense of fulfilment in life that we're intelligent beings different from animals.

But when they don't understand God's word (Bible) they try to seek knowledge elsewhere that's why they're turning to science whereas God's word stands forever while SCIENCE is a form of progressive learning about life, how we got here and how we can sustain life on this planet.
Is there any better place we can get such wisdom than God's word?

MaxInDHouse:
..
But when they don't understand God's word (Bible) [b]they try to seek knowledge elsewhere that's why they're turning to science[/b...]

Just saw 1Timothy 6:20

"Opposition of science falsely so called."

Wilgrea7:
Hello again everyone.

So I've been having a discussion about personal relationships with God recently, and I decided to open a new thread about this to get more opinions on the issue.

The idea of having a "personal relationship with God" is something that exists abundantly not only in Christianity, but in a couple of other religions as well. And a lot of people claim to have such relationship with a God of some sort.

So my question is really simple. If you indeed have a personal relationship with a God, then why do you need religious books? Why do you need the bible, Quran, Vedas, or any other religious book to know what God says, or what God wants?

In the personal relationships we have in our everyday lives, we talk to, and interact with these people personally. We know things about them, not because we read them somewhere, but because we've shared similar experiences with these people to know these things.

When we hear from our loved ones, or the people in our lives, we don't rely on third parties, or old novels they wrote to someone else. We converse with them directly.

Without any independent direct conversation, free from influence by religious scripture, how can you call your relationship with any God "personal"?

It's quite simple actually. To form a "personal relationship" with someone or something one needs to have an understanding of their character, their like and dislikes and so so.
An entity which is not same plane as people can only be manifested through obscure means, literary and the like, so to feel the connection to said entity, you would need references because you can't physically interact with them

To make it clearer. Let's use an imaginary fictional character. If I want to delude myself enough that I interact with a fictional character on a daily basis I need to have a base knowledge of their personality. That I would find in whatever franchise they come from; songs; books; movies or whatever and try to analyse how they would act in my day to day life and the more I think of them, the more I feel connected to them and if I hyperfixate on them enough, I'll see their "influences" in my day to day life and genuinely feel a stronger connection from the stronger understanding.

This doesn't make them real though because at the end of the day, it's all in my head. The only thing real is the emotions I feel from tge connection I made to said character, not the character itself

RatCabbage:


It's quite simple actually. To form a "personal relationship" with someone or something one needs to have an understanding of their character, their like and dislikes and so so.
An entity which is not same plane as people can only be manifested through obscure means, literary and the like, so to feel the connection to said entity, you would need references because you can't physically interact with them

I believe you've switched the order of things here. You don't get a personal relationship with someone by "understanding their character". Understanding their character amounts to knowledge about their character at best, and not a relationship.

In reality, reverse is the case. It is as your relationship with someone progresses that you get an understanding of their character. Your knowledge of their character comes from the personal interactions you have with said person.

To make it clearer. Let's use an imaginary fictional character. If I want to delude myself enough that I interact with a fictional character on a daily basis I need to have a base knowledge of their personality. That I would find in whatever franchise they come from; songs; books; movies or whatever and try to analyse how they would act in my day to day life and the more I think of them, the more I feel connected to them and if I hyperfixate on them enough, I'll see their "influences" in my day to day life and genuinely feel a stronger connection from the stronger understanding.

This doesn't make them real though because at the end of the day, it's all in my head. The only thing real is the emotions I feel from tge connection I made to said character, not the character itself

It is possible to form connections to imaginary things, even inanimate objects, and even significantly less conscious beings. We see it with people who talk to their dolls, or their goldfish. Their could have a emotional connection to these things, just as someone would cry when their favorite character in a movie dies. But it doesn't translate to a personal relationship.