chiself:


Ok, I think we are going back and forth but it is more like deja vu for me because I have had such arguments 15 years ago about things like fuel subsidy which was like a taboo subject back then but seems more are now onboard but still no guts to do the inevitable.

Your assumptions are different from mine and that is why I stated right from the beginning the scepticism in the blood. I meet lots of people like you who think you have the answer but 20 years down the line we are still on the same topic. By the way I come from the school of economic thought which believes in less government intervention and that government have no business running businesses .So yes, Nigeria government will indeed be useless running any business, but not just Nigeria government. You don't need to go far for case studies. Evidence is all around you. Even in the UK, I saw the transition from nationalisation to privatisation.

You see this as a subsidiary but I don't. 51% is in the hand of Nigerians (Not Nigerian govt) and that make it a Nigerian company. This again is common sense in every part of the world, but trust Nigerians to have their own definition and interpretation like they are living in a different planet!

You talk about breaking Aviation law but to tell you the truth I haven't got a clue about that. Also I will have preferred if companies like Air Peace and other to fly the national flag. I am not also saying that it is a must that Nigeria government should set up a new national carrier but what I am saying is that is now in progress, support it, nothing dodgy about it, no it is not an Ethiopian airlines subsidiary, it is a technical partner and I gave reason about the unveiling and why it was done in such a rush, trying to add it to the legacy list.

Also do remember that Nigerian government have previously subsidies the airlines now complaining about Air Nigeria. From the government point of view they want to see this sector grow.

Lol. You just keep contradicting yourself. You believe govt has no business in business but you think a business 100% owned by a govt should run an airline on behalf of another govt? Perhaps you mean Nigerian govt has no business in business. I think it's just an overused cliche by capitalists and neo- capitalists who just want to form economic literacy. What you don't realise is you're excusing Ethiopian govt from your principle just because they were successful where Nigeria failed.
What exactly do you mean by the airline is owned by Nigerians? Who are the Nigerians and what are their names? NSIA operates like a private entity in case you're not aware. And the fact still remains that the company profile lists Ethiopian airline as the majority shareholder and not "Nigerians" whatever that means in a corporate sense. It even sounds socialist to begin with and is funny coming from someone who claims to believe in capitalism. MTNN is a Nigerian company. Go and find out how much it repatriate to its parent company in SA. You really don't sound knowledgeable about this.

And no, it is not progressing. Neither is it growing. You shared a quote from Ethiopian Airlines MD where he mentioned "some issues". Have they been solved? Get real man!!
If the minister was serious, he could have recapitalised our airlines and gotten the govt to back them up to play big in the sector instead of looking to kill them with a sledgehammer which you slyly call competition. Imagine NSIA, pushing that 46% equity into just 3 of our local airlines. Just imagine what that will mean for them.
Stop the self- deceit bro. You can't wish things into existence. The minister is simply looking to cover the tracks of his loot. We are all in this country and we know how it goes. Blind optimism will not solve our issues.
And go and check the meaning of subsidiary, then come back and tell me MTNN is not a subsidiary of MTN SA. If you can juxtapose that, you'll see clearly what you have in ground is a subsidiary arrangement. Which is the fulcrum of the court case the local airlines instituted.

Yes! Ethiopian has a similar but not exact model with ASKY in Togo, Qatar Airways has something with Rwandair in Rwanda.
The business strategy has worked before. That way, there wont be cut throat competition. Both airlines will feed into each others routes symbiotically.

aestake:

So you believe Ethiopian airline will allow Nigeria air to compete with them?

The onus is on the accuser to prove with evidence. You don't accuse and leave the proof open to be contested. That is why we have propaganda and sensationalism.
Those who don't know how to track aircrafts and the ignorant will quickly jump into conclusions if the information is doctored or false.

Kukutenla:

A video of tracking a plane?
Are you serious?
You know, it's funny that you're quick to be skeptic about investigations painting the present govt in bad light that you go to any length to discredit it wedging while you were quick to believe any bad report about the former govts
Flightradar is an app. You can download and check yourself if the info is correct or not

Tzar:
The onus is on the accuser to prove with evidence. You don't accuse and leave the proof open to be contested. That is why we have propaganda and sensationalism.
Those who don't know how to track aircrafts and the ignorant will quickly jump into conclusions if the information is doctored or false.

Lol. Indeed. You're seeing evidence but claiming the proof shouldn't be open to be contested. Well done
Even Ganduje's video as clear as it was got contested. So I don't know what your point is

Tzar:
Yes! Ethiopian has a similar but not exact model with ASKY in Togo, Qatar Airways has something with Rwandair in Rwanda.
The business strategy has worked before. That way, there wont be cut throat competition. Both airlines will feed into each others routes symbiotically.

Kukutenla:

Lol. You just keep contradicting yourself. You believe govt has no business in business but you think a business 100% owned by a govt should run an airline on behalf of another govt? Perhaps you mean Nigerian govt has no business in business. I think it's just an overused cliche by capitalists and neo- capitalists who just want to form economic literacy. What you don't realise is you're excusing Ethiopian govt from your principle just because they were successful where Nigeria failed.
What exactly do you mean by the airline is owned by Nigerians? Who are the Nigerians and what are their names? NSIA operates like a private entity in case you're not aware. And the fact still remains that the company profile lists Ethiopian airline as the majority shareholder and not "Nigerians" whatever that means in a corporate sense. It even sounds socialist to begin with and is funny coming from someone who claims to believe in capitalism. MTNN is a Nigerian company. Go and find out how much it repatriate to its parent company in SA. You really don't sound knowledgeable about this.

And no, it is not progressing. Neither is it growing. You shared a quote from Ethiopian Airlines MD where he mentioned "some issues". Have they been solved? Get real man!!
If the minister was serious, he could have recapitalised our airlines and gotten the govt to back them up to play big in the sector instead of looking to kill them with a sledgehammer which you slyly call competition. Imagine NSIA, pushing that 46% equity into just 3 of our local airlines. Just imagine what that will mean for them.
Stop the self- deceit bro. You can't wish things into existence. The minister is simply looking to cover the tracks of his loot. We are all in this country and we know how it goes. Blind optimism will not solve our issues.
And go and check the meaning of subsidiary, then come back and tell me MTNN is not a subsidiary of MTN SA. If you can juxtapose that, you'll see clearly what you have in ground is a subsidiary arrangement. Which is the fulcrum of the court case the local airlines instituted.

Yes NSIA operates like a private entity and that is how it is supposed to be. It was another one of the institution I was advocating for 15 years ago and now glad the Nigeria government had the sense to set it up. It is for Nigerians! It belongs to Nigeria just like how Norway has GPFG, Singapore GIC, Saudi Arabia PIF, Kuwait KIA, Qatar QIA, UAE ADIA and Mubadala. The NSIA is free to invest in other world airlines on the behalf of Nigeria if that is part of their investment strategy.

The principle that government have no business running businesses is a school of economic thought. I don't think that Buhari's government subscribed to it, so that decision was for them to take. Having said that, Ethiopian is not Nigeria and just because a government subscribe to a certain economic thought doesn't mean that they shouldn't do business with others who think differently. We expect our government regardless of whatever economic thought they subscribe to, to act in the best interest of the citizens. Ethiopian Airlines is the best in African and that is a plus. As I said in earlier post we are lucky that the preferred technical partner is not one JTC Aerospace with a PO Box address in London. Nigeria got it right this time.

I think one thing you should begin to understand and accept is that the world is now global. Businesses move around. Within the Nigeria fintech space I have seen Nigerian companies’ takeover a business in the UK, Qatar, set up operation in Canada. Look at all the Nigeria banks spread around Africa, I expect money to be repatriated back to Nigeria, so why cry when other companies that invest in Nigeria are doing the same? We are creating global champions not local champions. We want Nigerian businesses to take over the world not Lagos or Abuja.

What is a subsidiary? A subsidiary is a company that is controlled by another company, known as the parent company or holding company. The parent company owns a majority of the subsidiary's shares, typically more than 50% of the total shares. The ownership percentage of the parent company determines the level of control it has over the subsidiary. You mentioned MTNN, which is a subsidiary of MTN. MTN is the majority shareholder and at some point holds over 75% of MTNN. It is a South Africa company, so money will indeed be repatriated to South Africa.

If you and your brother have 51% share of a house and I own the other 49% how am I the owner of the house? How do I have the right to tell you where to park your car, who to invite into the house etc. It doesn't make sense but only in Nigeria. The shareholding of Nigeria Air, is 49% Ethiopian Airlines, 46% Nigeria's Sovereign Wealth Fund and 5% Federal Government of Nigeria. The structure was created like that so the majority is in Nigerian hand. I expect the NSIA to work with the Fed Govt., just like how I don't expect your brother to join forces with me to kick you out of the house but if I was a nuisance you could both kick me out of the house because your combined share is more than mine.

Why should Nigeria government subsidise private airlines and not SME? Your assumption is that Nigeria Air will eventually kill off the existing airlines. Why is that? If these companies are run efficiently and are profitable they will survive. They already have a head start and I can’t see a situation where the Federal Government will be favouring Nigeria Air over the other airlines. Most likely the federal government should eventually sell off it 5% to the Nigerian citizens.

DenreleDave:


Why mention me with those legends?

It is a honor mehnnn

legends on faceless forum Nairaland. Cute!

Try being one offline / in life!

chiself:



Yes NSIA operates like a private entity and that is how it is supposed to be. It was another one of the institution I was advocating for 15 years ago and now glad the Nigeria government had the sense to set it up. It is for Nigerians! It belongs to Nigeria just like how Norway has GPFG, Singapore GIC, Saudi Arabia PIF, Kuwait KIA, Qatar QIA, UAE ADIA and Mubadala. The NSIA is free to invest in other world airlines on the behalf of Nigeria if that is part of their investment strategy.

The principle that government have no business running businesses is a school of economic thought. I don't think that Buhari's government subscribed to it, so that decision was for them to take. Having said that, Ethiopian is not Nigeria and just because a government subscribe to a certain economic thought doesn't mean that they shouldn't do business with others who think differently. We expect our government regardless of whatever economic thought they subscribe to, to act in the best interest of the citizens. Ethiopian Airlines is the best in African and that is a plus. As I said in earlier post we are lucky that the preferred technical partner is not one JTC Aerospace with a PO Box address in London. Nigeria got it right this time.

I think one thing you should begin to understand and accept is that the world is now global. Businesses move around. Within the Nigeria fintech space I have seen Nigerian companies’ takeover a business in the UK, Qatar, set up operation in Canada. Look at all the Nigeria banks spread around Africa, I expect money to be repatriated back to Nigeria, so why cry when other companies that invest in Nigeria are doing the same? We are creating global champions not local champions. We want Nigerian businesses to take over the world not Lagos or Abuja.

What is a subsidiary? A subsidiary is a company that is controlled by another company, known as the parent company or holding company. The parent company owns a majority of the subsidiary's shares, typically more than 50% of the total shares. The ownership percentage of the parent company determines the level of control it has over the subsidiary. You mentioned MTNN, which is a subsidiary of MTN. MTN is the majority shareholder and at some point holds over 75% of MTNN. It is a South Africa company, so money will indeed be repatriated to South Africa.

If you and your brother have 51% share of a house and I own the other 49% how am I the owner of the house? How do I have the right to tell you where to park your car, who to invite into the house etc. It doesn't make sense but only in Nigeria. The shareholding of Nigeria Air, is 49% Ethiopian Airlines, 46% Nigeria's Sovereign Wealth Fund and 5% Federal Government of Nigeria. The structure was created like that so the majority is in Nigerian hand. I expect the NSIA to work with the Fed Govt., just like how I don't expect your brother to join forces with me to kick you out of the house but if I was a nuisance you could both kick me out of the house because your combined share is more than mine.

Why should Nigeria government subsidise private airlines and not SME? Your assumption is that Nigeria Air will eventually kill off the existing airlines. Why is that? If these companies are run efficiently and are profitable they will survive. They already have a head start and I can’t see a situation where the Federal Government will be favouring Nigeria Air over the other airlines. Most likely the federal government should eventually sell off it 5% to the Nigerian citizens.

The more you write the more obvious it is that you're not familiar with corporate governance culture. Corporate governance is not an esusu-like arrangement where people can gather their shares and force a decision through. What you described is called corporate coup and is not exactly envisaged in the culture. A majority shareholder can't just be kicked aside by a combination of rebel minority shareholders and stripped of his privileges. The idea behind shareholding is that the individual shareholder bears risk or shares profit or loss based on the number of shares. So, even if the minority shareholders take such a "brotherly" decision as you put it, it does not increase the risk they are exposed to individually and thus, can't force the majority to become minority. The corporate governance code which established Nigeria Air must have included some clauses to protect Ethiopian airlines if not they wouldn't go ahead with it.
I see you've gone back to prevaricating. You espoused the theory of no govt in business to defend Sirika's having and now you're putting it on buhari. You lack consistency. Don't hide behind the buhari govt. Do you really believe govt has no business in business? If so, how do you explain Ethiopia running an airline successfully.
I never said Nigerian govt should subsidise local airlines. Are they subsidizing Ethiopian airlines by investing in Nigeria Air? You enjoy muddling things up just for the sake of it. And you ended with a mere speculation not based on any fact or logic. Just wishful thinking. Ethiopian airlines will kill off the local airlines if they're allowed access to the local market via Nigeria Air. It's simple logic that they can afford to and won't mind doing so. After all, that's how they operate in their home country. There are numerous examples of foreign giants killing off local businesses in Nigeria. The case of DStv and hi-tv is very fresh in memory. So it's not an assumption. It's a reality and one of the major reasons the local airlines sued Sirika
NSIA is actually 10 years old. It started in 2013.
.

jaytee01:


Sharrap dere!

[b]Mkpi.....rise to where? If you spend your entire life following and sniffing the butt of criminals, what does that make you?[/b]

Seun Mynd44 Dominique Justwise.
Rule 2

ThiefnubuBandit:


Another load of senseless foolish comment

Seun Mynd44 Dominique Justwise.
Rule 2

Dreamhighnow:


Who your own father when u Dey abuse Jonathan. Blood shred in this government for continually supporting them won’t leave you forever

Seun Mynd44 Dominique Justwise.
Rule 2

snowball11:

Where the Bleep is this irritant rising to? ☹️

Seun Mynd44 Dominique Justwise .
Rule 2

Kukutenla:

The more you write the more obvious it is that you're not familiar with corporate governance culture. Corporate governance is not an esusu-like arrangement where people can gather their shares and force a decision through. What you described is called corporate coup and is not exactly envisaged in the culture. A majority shareholder can't just be kicked aside by a combination of rebel minority shareholders and stripped of his privileges. The idea behind shareholding is that the individual shareholder bears risk or shares profit or loss based on the number of shares. So, even if the minority shareholders take such a "brotherly" decision as you put it, it does not increase the risk they are exposed to individually and thus, can't force the majority to become minority. The corporate governance code which established Nigeria Air must have included some clauses to protect Ethiopian airlines if not they wouldn't go ahead with it.
I see you've gone back to prevaricating. You espoused the theory of no govt in business to defend Sirika's having and now you're putting it on buhari. You lack consistency. Don't hide behind the buhari govt. Do you really believe govt has no business in business? If so, how do you explain Ethiopia running an airline successfully.
I never said Nigerian govt should subsidise local airlines. Are they subsidizing Ethiopian airlines by investing in Nigeria Air? You enjoy muddling things up just for the sake of it. And you ended with a mere speculation not based on any fact or logic. Just wishful thinking. Ethiopian airlines will kill off the local airlines if they're allowed access to the local market via Nigeria Air. It's simple logic that they can afford to and won't mind doing so. After all, that's how they operate in their home country. There are numerous examples of foreign giants killing off local businesses in Nigeria. The case of DStv and hi-tv is very fresh in memory. So it's not an assumption. It's a reality and one of the major reasons the local airlines sued Sirika
NSIA is actually 10 years old. It started in 2013.
.

I will make this my last post on this because I think we still have different assumptions and possibility will never agree.

Firstly, you going on like this is only going to benefit Ethiopia and nothing in it for Nigeria but why would the Nigerians agree to such a deal? Are they stupid?

Secondly, you keep referring to Ethiopian Airlines as the majority shareholder but what is the definition of a majority shareholder?
A majority shareholder is any individual or company (or sometimes a government) that owns more than 50% of a company's shares
Does Ethiopian Airlines owns more than 50% in Nigeria Air? No, so they are not majority shareholder, but sure they have the single most shares in the structure. Next question, can Ethiopian Airlines on their own control Nigeria Air? No, why? Because they do not have majority shares in the structure. Generally, a minority shareholder cannot, on their own, control a company. But they can work with other minority shareholders to overcome the majority’s will in votes. If enough minority shareholders combined shares constitute a majority act in unison, they can exercise significant control over some aspects of the company. Hence why the other 51% is jointly in the hands of Nigerians.

I got into this because there is always negativity. The Nigerian involved in the deals are not stupid. Most airlines started out with such type of deals. Ethiopian Airlines had such a deal with TWA, TWA is now gone, Emirates had such a deal with PIA, PIA, is just about gone.

My focus is on the benefit for Nigeria but you seem to think there is no benefit for Nigeria and will only benefit the Ethiopian. Of course the Ethiopian will benefit somehow they are not a charity.

There are people like you that do not believe in a free market society and want government intervention. The Federal Government has set this up by having only a 5% token stake and this is because they do not want to run it. Like I said most likely at some point they will sell the 5% to the Nigerian retail investors.

Thirdly, another false assumption (and this is actually quite common) is that Ethiopian Airlines is government controlled. It is not! It is actually run by the sovereign wealth fund Ethiopian Investment Holdings (EIH) and as you stated above the NSIA is a private company and so is EIH!
Regardless of the holding percentage of the government, Ethiopian Investment Holding as well as sub-funds and companies set up by Ethiopian Investment Holdings or participants in setting up thereof shall be considered private business organizations as per Article 3(3) of the Regulation.
The above answer your question on governments having no business running businesses. You have seen the state of your universities, post offices (if there is still any), NITEL, etc .As a religious country, I know you are always looking for some Messiah to turn things around for you but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. Even in Europe, governments cannot run businesses. If there was no privatization in the telecommunications sector there will be no mobile phones today. They were free from the shackles and so able to innovate!

Yes NSIA was started in 2013, they must have been reading my post to set a Nigerian sovereign fund

chiself:


I will make this my last post on this because I think we still have different assumptions and possibility will never agree.

Firstly, you going on like this is only going to benefit Ethiopia and nothing in it for Nigeria but why would the Nigerians agree to such a deal? Are they stupid?

Secondly, you keep referring to Ethiopian Airlines as the majority shareholder but what is the definition of a majority shareholder?
A majority shareholder is any individual or company (or sometimes a government) that owns more than 50% of a company's shares
Does Ethiopian Airlines owns more than 50% in Nigeria Air? No, so they are not majority shareholder, but sure they have the single most shares in the structure. Next question, can Ethiopian Airlines on their own control Nigeria Air? No, why? Because they do not have majority shares in the structure. Generally, a minority shareholder cannot, on their own, control a company. But they can work with other minority shareholders to overcome the majority’s will in votes. If enough minority shareholders combined shares constitute a majority act in unison, they can exercise significant control over some aspects of the company. Hence why the other 51% is jointly in the hands of Nigerians.

I got into this because there is always negativity. The Nigerian involved in the deals are not stupid. Most airlines started out with such type of deals. Ethiopian Airlines had such a deal with TWA, TWA is now gone, Emirates had such a deal with PIA, PIA, is just about gone.

My focus is on the benefit for Nigeria but you seem to think there is no benefit for Nigeria and will only benefit the Ethiopian. Of course the Ethiopian will benefit somehow they are not a charity.

There are people like you that do not believe in a free market society and want government intervention. The Federal Government has set this up by having only a 5% token stake and this is because they do not want to run it. Like I said most likely at some point they will sell the 5% to the Nigerian retail investors.

Thirdly, another false assumption (and this is actually quite common) is that Ethiopian Airlines is government controlled. It is not! It is actually run by the sovereign wealth fund Ethiopian Investment Holdings (EIH) and as you stated above the NSIA is a private company and so is EIH!
Regardless of the holding percentage of the government, Ethiopian Investment Holding as well as sub-funds and companies set up by Ethiopian Investment Holdings or participants in setting up thereof shall be considered private business organizations as per Article 3(3) of the Regulation.
The above answer your question on governments having no business running businesses. You have seen the state of your universities, post offices (if there is still any), NITEL, etc .As a religious country, I know you are always looking for some Messiah to turn things around for you but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. Even in Europe, governments cannot run businesses. If there was no privatization in the telecommunications sector there will be no mobile phones today. They were free from the shackles and so able to innovate!

Yes NSIA was started in 2013, they must have been reading my post to set a Nigerian sovereign fund

Yeah. I agree. They are not majority shareholders but what I was actuality referring to is that they hold the largest volume of shares and are also the technical partners and controlling company. Nigeria Air is listed as a subsidiary on their site and at least you know what that means from your definitions you copied. See second screenshot below. This shows they have a lot of influence over how the company will be run. The bigger catch for them is the free access to Nigeria's aviation sector. Like i pointed out to you before, they have almost exclusive access in their home country which is the second largest by population in Africa and thus potentially second largest market in Africa and now, just strolled into the largest market in Africa on a platter of gold. In terms of cost benefit. I don't see Nigeria gaining much because we should be aiming to be number 1 in Africa like we once were with Nigeria Airways. We're about to kill our local airlines for a govt owned foreign airline.

I see you asking if the Nigerians involved are stupid. I daresay a lot of ill that has befallen this country is because Nigerian officials take stupid decisions at the detriment of the country which they then cover in gold. I'll quote you six months from now about this particular airline. I'm a Nigerian and I know how things roll here. If you've been following the story of this Nigeria Air, you'll know how corrupt and inefficient the process has been. Let me remind you of the P&ID scam that can potentially cost Nigeria $20bn in govt damages and you'll understand how bad our policy makers can be. The risks and cost of this airline to our local sector is huge I kid you not. Ethiopian Air can kill off all our local lines in two years if not checked. Its always easy. Just junk prices and offer superior services and watch the other ones die a sure death.

I don't know where you got the idea that I don't believe in free market. Free market is not about foreign influx alone. US operates the largest free market yet still protects its local industries by placing high tariffs on Chinese made goods and restricting what can be imported.

What should drive principles is your best interests not the principles themselves. And i can assure you Nigeria's long term best interest is not served in this matter.

See the screenshot below. Ethiopian Airline is 1000% owned by Ethiopian govt. No ifs and buts about it. There's nothing shocking about that actually as most big airlines are either govt owned or govt backed. Emirates, Etihad, Air France, Pacific Airlines etc.
Bye

Kukutenla:

Yeah. I agree. They are not majority shareholders but what I was actuality referring to is that they hold the largest volume of shares and are also the technical partners and controlling company. Nigeria Air is listed as a subsidiary on their site and at least you know what that means from your definitions you copied. See second screenshot below. This shows they have a lot of influence over how the company will be run. The bigger catch for them is the free access to Nigeria's aviation sector. Like i pointed out to you before, they have almost exclusive access in their home country which is the second largest by population in Africa and thus potentially second largest market in Africa and now, just strolled into the largest market in Africa on a platter of gold. In terms of cost benefit. I don't see Nigeria gaining much because we should be aiming to be number 1 in Africa like we once were with Nigeria Airways. We're about to kill our local airlines for a govt owned foreign airline.

I see you asking if the Nigerians involved are stupid. I daresay a lot of ill that has befallen this country is because Nigerian officials take stupid decisions at the detriment of the country which they then cover in gold. I'll quote you six months from now about this particular airline. I'm a Nigerian and I know how things roll here. If you've been following the story of this Nigeria Air, you'll know how corrupt and inefficient the process has been. Let me remind you of the P&ID scam that can potentially cost Nigeria $20bn in govt damages and you'll understand how bad our policy makers can be. The risks and cost of this airline to our local sector is huge I kid you not. Ethiopian Air can kill off all our local lines in two years if not checked. Its always easy. Just junk prices and offer superior services and watch the other ones die a sure death.

I don't know where you got the idea that I don't believe in free market. Free market is not about foreign influx alone. US operates the largest free market yet still protects its local industries by placing high tariffs on Chinese made goods and restricting what can be imported.

What should drive principles is your best interests not the principles themselves. And i can assure you Nigeria's long term best interest is not served in this matter.

See the screenshot below. Ethiopian Airline is 1000% owned by Ethiopian govt. No ifs and buts about it. There's nothing shocking about that actually as most big airlines are either govt owned or govt backed. Emirates, Etihad, Air France, Pacific Airlines etc.
Bye

So let me ask you a question. If I was a billionaire and want to set up an airlines in Nigeria, I managed to secure a deal with Airbus who will provide 10 Airbus 330 and will be taking a stake lets say 49%, will this also kill off the local airlines? Should the regulator block it? If the regulator block it, don't you think Nigerians will lose out?

Like I said we have different assumption, you are assuming all the benefit is for Ethiopian and not Nigeria. They are expected to provided training to Nigeria. They are qualified to do so. They have the number airlines in Africa, we don't. I think this is just an ego thing, Nigeria is African giant, how dare Ethiopian Airlines run our airlines. They are not running the airlines they are just technical partner and it is up to Nigerians to take it to the next level.

So Otedola is the largest shareholder in First Bank with around 7.5% stake. Is he running First Bank? Is First Bank now a subsidiary of Calvados Global Services Limited?

The screenshot you posted was NOT from Ethiopian Airlines! That was from Wikipedia and anyone can edit it, so I wouldn't go with that.
Ethiopian Airlines is indeed connected to the Ethiopian government but run by their sovereign fund in a private capacity.
https://eih.et

Again the statement big airlines are either govt owned or govt backed is not true!
Air France that you mentioned is actually part of the KLM group and the French government owns 3 times more shares than the Netherland government. I also see the China Eastern Airlines and Delta Airlines in the cap table.
For British Airways / Iberia IAG, there is actually no government shareholding and actually, the largest shareholder with a 20.1% stake is Qatar Airways, which is owned by Qatar Investment Authority, the sovereign wealth fund own the the Government of Qatar. Is British Airways and Iberia a subsidiary of Qatar Airways?

Air France-KLM Group:
French State - 28.6%
Dutch State - 9.3%
CMA CGM - 9%
China Eastern Airlines - 4.7%
Delta Air Lines - 2.9%
FCPE (employees) - 1.2%
Treasury shares - 0.05%
Other (registered and bearer shares) - 44.25%

British Airways/ Iberia (International Airlines Group - IAG):

Institutional investors: Approximately 79%
Individual shareholders: Approximately 12%
Employee stock ownership plans: Approximately 2%
Other shareholders: Approximately 7%

If you go to the Lufthansa website, it states, The majority of the issued capital is in German hands. The statement is also true for Air Nigera The majority of the issued capital is in Nigerian hands!

chiself:


So let me ask you a question. If I was a billionaire and want to set up an airlines in Nigeria, I managed to secure a deal with Airbus who will provide 10 Airbus 330 and will be taking a stake lets say 49%, will this also kill off the local airlines? Should the regulator block it? If the regulator block it, don't you think Nigerians will lose out?

This analogy is wrong because of you were a businessman without govt backing, you will need to go through all the stages of approval not to mention carrying out a feasibility study on the business environment. The point I'm making is Airbus will not do all that for you. The stake Airbus will put in is one that will mean more pressure on you to make it a success. Thus, you're not coming with an unfair upper hand. This is totally different because in the case of Nigeria Air, the regulator is also the player (FG) and a lot of leverage will be given to Ethiopian Airlines. Like i mentioned, Ethiopian Airlines can easily cut prices and with superior services, strangle the others out of business in one or two years, and after they become dominant, start price gouging. We've seen same with Dstv, MTN and Airtel before glo(a fully owned Nigerian business) came to slash their prices. I hope you can see the difference.

Like I said we have different assumption, you are assuming all the benefit is for Ethiopian and not Nigeria. They are expected to provided training to Nigeria. They are qualified to do so. They have the number airlines in Africa, we don't. I think this is just an ego thing, Nigeria is African giant, how dare Ethiopian Airlines run our airlines. They are not running the airlines they are just technical partner and it is up to Nigerians to take it to the next level.

I don't assume the benefit is for Ethiopia alone. What I'm saying is apart from the corrupt and shady way the deal was done, the risks outweigh the benefits by far. May i ask you if you think it's beneficial to kill our homegrown airline in favour of a foreign airline just because we want to have a National carrier? Ethiopian Airlines WILL run the airline. That's same they did for Malawi and Zambia. I guess technical partners mean something else to you.

So Otedola is the largest shareholder in First Bank with around 7.5% stake. Is he running First Bank? Is First Bank now a subsidiary of Calvados Global Services Limited?

Otedola is not a technical partner in First Bank. If he has an agreement with the rest of the shareholders to technically handle the bank, he'll run the bank. That said, in the case of first bank, the largest shareholder is usually given the right to appoint the Chairman of the Board. So you can be rest assured Otedola's representative runs the boardroom just as that of Honeywell's used to do.

The screenshot you posted was NOT from Ethiopian Airlines! That was from Wikipedia and anyone can edit it, so I wouldn't go with that.
Ethiopian Airlines is indeed connected to the Ethiopian government but run by their sovereign fund in a private capacity.
https://eih.et

You have been quoting from Wikipedia and nobody discountenanced it. Now that a fact from there does not align with you, you suddenly hate it. If Ethiopian Airlines is private as you claim, how come no airline is allowed to compete with it locally in Ethiopia?

Again the statement big airlines are either govt owned or govt backed is not true!
Air France that you mentioned is actually part of the KLM group and the French government owns 3 times more shares than the Netherland government. I also see the China Eastern Airlines and Delta Airlines in the cap table.
For British Airways / Iberia IAG, there is actually no government shareholding and actually, the largest shareholder with a 20.1% stake is Qatar Airways, which is owned by Qatar Investment Authority, the sovereign wealth fund own the the Government of Qatar. Is British Airways and Iberia a subsidiary of Qatar Airways?

Air France-KLM Group:
French State - 28.6%
Dutch State - 9.3%
CMA CGM - 9%
China Eastern Airlines - 4.7%
Delta Air Lines - 2.9%
FCPE (employees) - 1.2%
Treasury shares - 0.05%
Other (registered and bearer shares) - 44.25%

British Airways/ Iberia (International Airlines Group - IAG):

Institutional investors: Approximately 79%
Individual shareholders: Approximately 12%
Employee stock ownership plans: Approximately 2%
Other shareholders: Approximately 7%

If you go to the Lufthansa website, it states, The majority of the issued capital is in German hands. The statement is also true for Air Nigera The majority of the issued capital is in Nigerian hands!

I never said all, but most. Air France is owned by the govt and what they have with KLM is a merger. The 28% represents their stake in the merger just like Nigeria has 5% and 46% through the NSIA.
British investors under IAG actually own 55% of the stake in the merger which makes British Airways the majority shareholder. So there's no way the IAG can be a subsidiary of Qatar Airways. If however, they are able to get the majority or controlling shares in future, IAG will become a subsidiary of Qatar Airways. It's how the business is. Nothing personal about it.
As for Lufthansa, it is wholly private owned and German sovereign funds were used to bail it out in 2014 to indirectly give govt 10% shares(govt in business again!!) So the German hands being referred to are private investors not "German people" like Volkswagen of old. So, it's totally wrong to use Lufthansa to illustrate Nigeria Air which a dime of it is not owned by any Nigerian!!

Kukutenla:

This analogy is wrong because of you were a businessman without govt backing, you will need to go through all the stages of approval not to mention carrying out a feasibility study on the business environment. The point I'm making is Airbus will not do all that for you. The stake Airbus will put in is one that will mean more pressure on you to make it a success. Thus, you're not coming with an unfair upper hand. This is totally different because in the case of Nigeria Air, the regulator is also the player (FG) and a lot of leverage will be given to Ethiopian Airlines. Like i mentioned, Ethiopian Airlines can easily cut prices and with superior services, strangle the others out of business in one or two years, and after they become dominant, start price gouging. We've seen same with Dstv, MTN and Airtel before glo(a fully owned Nigerian business) came to slash their prices. I hope you can see the difference.



I don't assume the benefit is for Ethiopia alone. What I'm saying is apart from the corrupt and shady way the deal was done, the risks outweigh the benefits by far. May i ask you if you think it's beneficial to kill our homegrown airline in favour of a foreign airline just because we want to have a National carrier? Ethiopian Airlines WILL run the airline. That's same they did for Malawi and Zambia. I guess technical partners mean something else to you.

Otedola is not a technical partner in First Bank. If he has an agreement with the rest of the shareholders to technically handle the bank, he'll run the bank. That said, in the case of first bank, the largest shareholder is usually given the right to appoint the Chairman of the Board. So you can be rest assured Otedola's representative runs the boardroom just as that of Honeywell's used to do.

You have been quoting from Wikipedia and nobody discountenanced it. Now that a fact from there does not align with you, you suddenly hate it. If Ethiopian Airlines is private as you claim, how come no airline is allowed to compete with it locally in Ethiopia?


I never said all, but most. Air France is owned by the govt and what they have with KLM is a merger. The 28% represents their stake in the merger just like Nigeria has 5% and 46% through the NSIA.
British investors under IAG actually own 55% of the stake in the merger which makes British Airways the majority shareholder. So there's no way the IAG can be a subsidiary of Qatar Airways. If however, they are able to get the majority or controlling shares in future, IAG will become a subsidiary of Qatar Airways. It's how the business is. Nothing personal about it.
As for Lufthansa, it is wholly private owned and German sovereign funds were used to bail it out in 2014 to indirectly give govt 10% shares(govt in business again!!) So the German hands being referred to are private investors not "German people" like Volkswagen of old. So, it's totally wrong to use Lufthansa to illustrate Nigeria Air which a dime of it is not owned by any Nigerian!!

I will only comment on the Wikipedia, as I think we are going in circles. I think you are assuming that I used Wikipedia, but why use Wikipedia and say it is from Ethiopian Airlines website?

chiself:


I will only comment on the Wikipedia, as I think we are going in circles. I think you are assuming that I used Wikipedia, but why use Wikipedia and say it is from Ethiopian Airlines website?

We are going in circles because you keep misrepresenting facts
You got this from Wikipedia

chiself:


Air France-KLM Group:
French State - 28.6%
Dutch State - 9.3%
CMA CGM - 9%
China Eastern Airlines - 4.7%
Delta Air Lines - 2.9%
FCPE (employees) - 1.2%
Treasury shares - 0.05%
Other (registered and bearer shares) - 44.25%

Kukutenla:

We are going in circles because you keep misrepresenting facts
You got this from Wikipedia

That is the Nigeria I know, where journalist can just pull anything from their arse and run with it. Yes it looks similar but I can assure you my source was not Wikipedia. I wouldn't take something from Wikipedia and then tell you it is not reliable when you do the same.
It appears you are the one misrepresenting fact. First you lie about your source and now another false assumption.

https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/finance/air-france-klm-capital/shareholding-structure

chiself:


That is the Nigeria I know, where journalist can just pull anything from their arse and run with it. Yes it looks similar but I can assure you my source was not Wikipedia. I wouldn't take something from Wikipedia and then tell you it is not reliable when you do the same.
It appears you are the one misrepresenting fact. First you lie about your source and now another false assumption.

https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/finance/air-france-klm-capital/shareholding-structure

Well, since both are similar and have same facts, i don't see why Wikipedia should be discountenanced.
What source did I lie about? There's no reason for me to lie. I know what I'm saying. You're the one who is shopping for defense for something done shabbily.
Now that is out of the way, you can respond to the issues I raised

okoliobinna84:

To tear you slap now just dey hungry me.

I no dey filling station ooo

chiself:


Bloody hell! Nigeria is like one big laboratory when you don't need volunteers to take part in studies as everyone is a candidate.
They have been disappointed many times by the government and are now natural born sceptics.

The shareholders composition of Nigeria Air, Ethiopian Airlines 49%, Nigerian Sovereign Fund 46% and the Nigerian government 5%. Now maybe some of you do not know, it is general knowledge and should have been known like maybe 5 years ago that Ethiopian Airlines is the most successful airlines in Africa, with over 100 aircrafts in their fleet. Another common thing about Ethiopian Airlines which should be general knowledge again is their success story. They have found the formula for success, not even South African Airlines which was in business for nearly 90 years survived.

So Nigeria was looking to set up national carrier, we all know that that the government cannot run it successfully, but they looking for a technical partner and they were successful in finding the best .

It takes years to set up an airlines, and the current administration is finishing on Monday 29 May 2023. Anyone with half a brain should understand what the minister of aviation is trying to do. It is an introduction. He wants to present it as his legacy! The sad part is that you expect people like David, Rufai and Sahara news to understand simple things like this but they are all suffering from that national scepticism, it doesn't matter the level of education or whether they are now living outside Nigeria, it is now running inside their blood.

Most world airlines do have partners and alliances. They do share their plane, offices, staff etc. I recently took Vueling to Spain, it was a British Airways ticket but part of the same IAG group.

Yes, the Nigeria Air plane that flew into Nigeria was an Ethiopian Airlines plan and you will be seeing lots of that going forward.

It is really sad that Nigerians hate Nigeria so much. Not surprising everyone wants to Japa, but let's celebrate our small successes. We should count ourselves lucky that the technical partner is not one faceless company with a P. O. Box address in London but the most successful African airlines. Nigeria Air could end up being more successful than Ethiopian Airways. Think of the jobs it will create.

If 2-3 years from now people are still talking about Nigeria Air but no operation on ground then you can talk then but as of now it looks like all is going as planned. I don't understand why you think Ethiopian will be involved in these silly games when they are busy running the most successful airlines in Africa.

David, Rufai , Sahara news remind me of the Sun Newspaper in the UK. They know their audience are not very smart but keep publishing inciting news such as on immigration just to sell their paper. They are either playing a game or just stupid.

Oga where is the Plane. I heard the borrowed plane has gone back to Ethiopia. Come and finish your analysis. Lol

Obifraud2:

For voting peter Obi despite his incompetence, may your entire generation be afflicted with the most pathetic form of death. May you and your useless family never know peace the way Anambra is not seeing peace. May you and your family continue to witness the worst calamity ever known to mankind.

Rule 2. Don't abuse, bully, deliberately insult/provoke, fight, or wish harm to Nairaland members OR THEIR TRIBES.
Mynd44 nlfpmod dominique Mukina2 lalasticlala seun

chiself:


Bloody hell! Nigeria is like one big laboratory when you don't need volunteers to take part in studies as everyone is a candidate.
They have been disappointed many times by the government and are now natural born sceptics.

The shareholders composition of Nigeria Air, Ethiopian Airlines 49%, Nigerian Sovereign Fund 46% and the Nigerian government 5%. Now maybe some of you do not know, it is general knowledge and should have been known like maybe 5 years ago that Ethiopian Airlines is the most successful airlines in Africa, with over 100 aircrafts in their fleet. Another common thing about Ethiopian Airlines which should be general knowledge again is their success story. They have found the formula for success, not even South African Airlines which was in business for nearly 90 years survived.

So Nigeria was looking to set up national carrier, we all know that that the government cannot run it successfully, but they looking for a technical partner and they were successful in finding the best .

It takes years to set up an airlines, and the current administration is finishing on Monday 29 May 2023. Anyone with half a brain should understand what the minister of aviation is trying to do. It is an introduction. He wants to present it as his legacy! The sad part is that you expect people like David, Rufai and Sahara news to understand simple things like this but they are all suffering from that national scepticism, it doesn't matter the level of education or whether they are now living outside Nigeria, it is now running inside their blood.

Most world airlines do have partners and alliances. They do share their plane, offices, staff etc. I recently took Vueling to Spain, it was a British Airways ticket but part of the same IAG group.

Yes, the Nigeria Air plane that flew into Nigeria was an Ethiopian Airlines plan and you will be seeing lots of that going forward.

It is really sad that Nigerians hate Nigeria so much. Not surprising everyone wants to Japa, but let's celebrate our small successes. We should count ourselves lucky that the technical partner is not one faceless company with a P. O. Box address in London but the most successful African airlines. Nigeria Air could end up being more successful than Ethiopian Airways. Think of the jobs it will create.

If 2-3 years from now people are still talking about Nigeria Air but no operation on ground then you can talk then but as of now it looks like all is going as planned. I don't understand why you think Ethiopian will be involved in these silly games when they are busy running the most successful airlines in Africa.

David, Rufai , Sahara news remind me of the Sun Newspaper in the UK. They know their audience are not very smart but keep publishing inciting news such as on immigration just to sell their paper. They are either playing a game or just stupid.

Oga come and review your epistle. I just want to remind you after 5 months. Una go learn sha. Where is the Nigerian Air you defended and even call out some media houses and persons. So who is stup1d now?