The Atheists Costly Error: Assumption that Everything REAL Must be TANGIBLE

First Some Definitions:
1. Real:
Things that EXIST are REAL : things that do NOT Exist are Imaginary or Virtual!
e.g. Your image in the mirror is virtual!
2. Tangible:
Anything that has either Mass or Dimensions (Length, Area or Volume) or Energy which can interact with time either by change in position or change in state.

Anything that is tangible can be described in terms of either its mass or Dimensions or Energy?

Photons and Gluons are mass-less objects and they do not even have spatial dimensions but they have measurable Energies: thus they are Tangible objects

Note:
All REAL things that are not tangible can only be known by the Effect they produce on other things that exist.

Examples of Real things that are NOT Tangible include
1. Life
2. Mathematics
3. Software Code within a machine
4. Information
5. Logic
6. Magnetic Fields,
7. Electric Fields,
8. Gravitational Fields

Finally,
There is a Huge Difference between Real objects that are NOT Tangible and the Medium by which their Existence can be monitored.
Every Non-Tangible REALITY can only be detected INDIRECTLY by the Effect they have on suitable mediums.


If you don't have problem of comprehending knowledge,
Answers to Questions from my Challenge to Atheists:
1. If an existence is not tangible i.e. cannot be measured in terms of Mass, Dimension, Energy and Time, does this prove it doesn't exist?
Answer: NO!
Examples abound Like Life, Logic, Software, Magnetic Field, Mathematics, Knowledge, Information etc

2. Is a software within a machine REAL or not?
Answer: Softwares within a machine are very real REAL

3. Can the software within a machine be "measured" or "quantified" DIRECTLY by any physical means?
Answer: NO! There is no physical means by which a software can be measured or quantified. Detection or Quantification can only be done Indirectly with Another Software.

4. Is it wisdom to insist on a physical quantification of a software within a machine to conclude that it exist?
Answer: It is actually IGNORANCE that will make a person INSIST on physical quantification of a software within a machine to conclude that it exist.

5. Tell me, how can one DIRECTLY prove the existence of a software WITHIN an AI machine's CPU or MEMORY without the use of another software?
Answer: It is simply IMPOSSIBLE to prove directly the existence of a software within the CPU or HDD or RAM of a computer without the use of another software.


Questions :
1. Do you as Atheists now concur that REALITIES Exist that are NOT TANGIBLE?
2. Do you as Atheists now concur that demanding for direct physical proof of Non-Tangible Realities is borne out of Ignorance?
3. Do you as Atheists now concur that visible Effects of Non-Tangible Realities on other real objects is a fair (indirect) proof of its existence?
i.e. Like the effects of Microsoft OS or Application program on a Computer is sufficient reason to believe that a software is operating within the Computer!
4. Do you concur that a Working Interconnection of several Systems is a reasonable proof of an Intelligent mind behind the controlling program of the systems where the controlling program is Non-Tangible?





LordReed, Budaatum, triplechoice, KnownUnknown, Jaephoenix, HopefulLandlord, Everyday247, Seun,

Evidence of Absence and Absence of Evidence is Intentional Obfuscation and therefore should be respected. If Divine Spirit willfully designs systems and processes that promotes its absence, then Atheism is the default principle that Supreme Spirit prefers possibly because Humans are not it's direct creation.

Humans, contrary to popular religious assumptions were not created by Divine Spirit, Mankind was in the Organic blueprint based on evolution, but directed evolution by the Gods gives rise to Humans, so by assuming that human is not just an animal that is farmed for orgone energy, you are fooled by your sense of importance in the cosmological scheme.

Man is not the top of the food chain. As man, you will not know much. But as spirit, you will figure this out. So both theists and atheist are wrong.

TenQ:
Do you concur that a Working Interconnection of several Systems is a reasonable proof of an Intelligent mind behind the controlling program of the systems where the controlling program is Non-Tangible?

I'm interested in this particular question.

TheBillyonaire:
Evidence of Absence and Absence of Evidence is Intentional Obfuscation and therefore should be respected. If Divine Spirit willfully designs systems and processes that promotes its absence, then Atheism is the default principle that Supreme Spirit prefers possibly because Humans are not it's direct creation.

Humans, contrary to popular religious assumptions were not created by Divine Spirit, Mankind was in the Organic blueprint based on evolution, but directed evolution by the Gods gives rise to Humans, so by assuming that human is not just an animal that is farmed for orgone energy, you are fooled by your sense of importance in the cosmological scheme.

Man is not the top of the food chain. As man, you will not know much. But as spirit, you will figure this out. So both theists and atheist are wrong.

This is just your opinion and opinion has nothing to do with reality.

1. Do you understand the writeup above?
2. Do you dissagree with it or not?
Can you thus attempt the questions given?


The Efficldence of Non-Tangible existence is only known by its effect.

Questions :
1. Do you as Atheists now concur that REALITIES Exist that are NOT TANGIBLE?
2. Do you as Atheists now concur that demanding for direct physical proof of Non-Tangible Realities is borne out of Ignorance?
3. Do you as Atheists now concur that visible Effects of Non-Tangible Realities on other real objects is a fair (indirect) proof of its existence?
i.e. Like the effects of Microsoft OS or Application program on a Computer is sufficient reason to believe that a software is operating within the Computer!
4. Do you concur that a Working Interconnection of several Systems is a reasonable proof of an Intelligent mind behind the controlling program of the systems where the controlling program is Non-Tangible?

Emusan:


I'm interested in this particular question.

Watch all of them pretend that the Questions do not exist!

TheBillyonaire:
Evidence of Absence and Absence of Evidence is Intentional Obfuscation and therefore should be respected. If Divine Spirit willfully designs systems and processes that promotes its absence, then Atheism is the default principle that Supreme Spirit prefers possibly because Humans are not it's direct creation.

This looks like a good argument except that no one ever asked to see the Programmers of Microsoft Word or Microsoft Windows before the belive that Programmers are behind the software programs.

Thus, it is an unimportant point

TheBillyonaire:

Humans, contrary to popular religious assumptions were not created by Divine Spirit, Mankind was in the Organic blueprint based on evolution, but directed evolution by the Gods gives rise to Humans, so by assuming that human is not just an animal that is farmed for orgone energy, you are fooled by your sense of importance in the cosmological scheme.

This is just your opinion sir!

TheBillyonaire:

Man is not the top of the food chain. As man, you will not know much. But as spirit, you will figure this out. So both theists and atheist are wrong.

This is another opinion and you are entitled to it

TenQ:

This looks like a good argument except that no one ever asked to see the Programmers of Microsoft Word or Microsoft Windows before the belive that Programmers are behind the software programs.

AGI can write programs and code softwares. So the idea that there must be a being behind every creation is both true and untrue therefore both theists and atheists are wrong.

I hereby introduce you to Pantheism. Read about it and come back so I can guide you through. I have no time to argue with you.

TheBillyonaire:


AGI can write programs and code softwares. So the idea that there must be a being behind every creation is both true and untrue therefore both theists and atheists are wrong.

Did the AI program create itself?
If it didn't, then how is it different from reproduction?
We are not the Creator yet we reproduce.

TheBillyonaire:

I hereby introduce you to Pantheism. Read about it and come back so I can guide you through. I have no time to argue with you.

Pantheniesm is a distortion of the Christian doctrine.
1. The Christian God is a Spirit and in Him everything seen and unseen consist
2. In Christianity, everything seen and unseen are interconnected and inderdependent on each other. For God made the rules that guide them all
3. The visible world came out of the invisible for space, time and matter must exist at exactly the same time.
4. God can also chose to enter into His creation.

1. The biggest weakness of Pantheism is that the visible universe have a beginning (approx 13.8 billion years ago).
2. The visible universe cannot spontaneously create itself

TenQ:

Did the AI program create itself?
If it didn't, then how is it different from reproduction?
We are not the Creator yet we reproduce.



Pantheniesm is a distortion of the Christian doctrine.
1. The Christian God is a Spirit and in Him everything seen and unseen consist
2. In Christianity, everything seen and unseen are interconnected and inderdependent on each other. For God's d made the rules that guide them all
3. The visible world came out of the invisible for space, time and matter must exist at exactly the same time.


1. The biggest weakness of Pantheism is that the visible universe have a beginning (approx 13.8 billion years ago).
2. The visible universe cannot spontaneously create itself

I asked you to research on Pantheism and you are talking about Pantheneism? Are you alright?

TheBillyonaire:


I asked you to research on Pantheism and you are talking about Pantheneism? Are you alright?

Who told you that I don't know anything about Pantheism?
Did you just recently learn of this aspect of philosophy?

TenQ:

Who told you that I don't know anything about Pantheism?
Did you just recently learn of this aspect of philosophy?

No, you do not.

If you had knowledge of Pantheism, you wont be engaging in arguments about Atheism and Theism, cos both are flawed and you would have known that.

TenQ:
The Atheists Costly Error: Assumption that Everything REAL Must be TANGIBLE

First Some Definitions:
1. Real:
Things that EXIST are REAL : things that do NOT Exist are Imaginary or Virtual!
e.g. Your image in the mirror is virtual!
2. Tangible:
Anything that has either Mass or Dimensions (Length, Area or Volume) or Energy which can interact with time either by change in position or change in state.

Anything that is tangible can be described in terms of either its mass or Dimensions or Energy?

Photons and Gluons are mass-less objects and they do not even have spatial dimensions but they have measurable Energies: thus they are Tangible objects

Note:
All REAL things that are not tangible can only be known by the Effect they produce on other things that exist.

Examples of Real things that are NOT Tangible include
1. Life
2. Mathematics
3. Software Code within a machine
4. Information
5. Logic
6. Magnetic Fields,
7. Electric Fields,
8. Gravitational Fields

Finally,
There is a Huge Difference between Real objects that are NOT Tangible and the Medium by which their Existence can be monitored.
Every Non-Tangible REALITY can only be detected INDIRECTLY by the Effect they have on suitable mediums.


If you don't have problem of comprehending knowledge,
Answers to Questions from my Challenge to Atheists:
1. If an existence is not tangible i.e. cannot be measured in terms of Mass, Dimension, Energy and Time, does this prove it doesn't exist?
Answer: NO!
Examples abound Like Life, Logic, Software, Magnetic Field, Mathematics, Knowledge, Information etc

2. Is a software within a machine REAL or not?
Answer: Softwares within a machine are very real REAL

3. Can the software within a machine be "measured" or "quantified" DIRECTLY by any physical means?
Answer: NO! There is no physical means by which a software can be measured or quantified. Detection or Quantification can only be done Indirectly with Another Software.

4. Is it wisdom to insist on a physical quantification of a software within a machine to conclude that it exist?
Answer: It is actually IGNORANCE that will make a person INSIST on physical quantification of a software within a machine to conclude that it exist.

5. Tell me, how can one DIRECTLY prove the existence of a software WITHIN an AI machine's CPU or MEMORY without the use of another software?
Answer: It is simply IMPOSSIBLE to prove directly the existence of a software within the CPU or HDD or RAM of a computer without the use of another software.


Questions :
1. Do you as Atheists now concur that REALITIES Exist that are NOT TANGIBLE?
2. Do you as Atheists now concur that demanding for direct physical proof of Non-Tangible Realities is borne out of Ignorance?
3. Do you as Atheists now concur that visible Effects of Non-Tangible Realities on other real objects is a fair (indirect) proof of its existence?
i.e. Like the effects of Microsoft OS or Application program on a Computer is sufficient reason to believe that a software is operating within the Computer!
4. Do you concur that a Working Interconnection of several Systems is a reasonable proof of an Intelligent mind behind the controlling program of the systems where the controlling program is Non-Tangible?





LordReed, Budaatum, triplechoice, KnownUnknown, Jaephoenix, HopefulLandlord, Everyday247, Seun,

I have described tangibility for you as documented on the MW Dictionaries. If you don't like it, hug a transformer.
Please where does all these questions lead to? Whats your point?
Are you saying spirit is real or tangible?

TheBillyonaire:


AGI can write programs and code softwares. So the idea that there must be a being behind every creation is both true and untrue therefore both theists and atheists are wrong.

I hereby introduce you to Pantheism. Read about it and come back so I can guide you through. I have no time to argue with you.

or both are right..

I have sent TenQ to a recess.

I can guarantee that he is reading up Pantheism now. The good news is that when one understands Pantheism, he becomes wiser than both Theists and Atheists cos they are both wrong.

There is historical evidence of multiples of Gods and there is presently evidence of absence of Gods cos we have become Gods in numerical titles. God is a Cosmic Level Position, a title defined by intelligence quotient and not a being.

All are by products of Divine Spirit.

So your brains need to start braining.

sonmvayina:


or both are right..

You are right on point, Yes. I intentionally omitted that angle. Both are right and wrong and cancel each other out. It is a null set.

When someone ask,; ' Does God exist?. There is no answer, cos the question does not exist.

There is evidence of absence and there is absence of evidence. Yet there is evidence of presence and presence of evidence.

TheBillyonaire:


I asked you to research on Pantheism and you are talking about Pantheneism? Are you alright?

Why don't you do research on Christianity instead?

TheBillyonaire:


No, you do not.

If you had knowledge of Pantheism, you wont be engaging in arguments about Atheism and Theism, cos both are flawed and you would have known that.

Knowledge of Pantheism is NOT the same as Believing in the stupid doctrine is it?


I read of some philosophical concept of God and existence and I find it laughable : how will I then subscribe to it because I studied it some time ago?

jaephoenix:

I have described tangibility for you as documented on the MW Dictionaries. If you don't like it, hug a transformer.
Please where does all these questions lead to? Whats your point?
Are you saying spirit is real or tangible?

Like:
Her Grief was tangible!


1. Is this an objective judgement?
2. What is the value of Grief that will make it tangible?

Your royal majesty seems not to know what a figure of speech is: do you?

sonmvayina:


or both are right..

Both cannot be right sir!

It is either God is a Consciousness (person) or God is NOT a Consciousness (person)!

TheBillyonaire:
I have sent TenQ to a recess.

I can guarantee that he is reading up Pantheism now. The good news is that when one understands Pantheism, he becomes wiser than both Theists and Atheists cos they are both wrong.

There is historical evidence of multiples of Gods and there is presently evidence of absence of Gods cos we have become Gods in numerical titles. God is a Cosmic Level Position, a title defined by intelligence quotient and not a being.

All are by products of Divine Spirit.

So your brains need to start braining.

If your God is a cosmic level position and NOT a Being!

It is either God is a Consciousness (Being) or God is NOT a Consciousness (Being) which is your position?

TheBillyonaire:


You are right on point, Yes. I intentionally omitted that angle. Both are right and wrong and cancel each other out. It is a null set.

When someone ask,; ' Does God exist?. There is no answer, cos the question does not exist.

There is evidence of absence and there is absence of evidence. Yet there is evidence of presence and presence of evidence.

It seems you have shifted Your Atheistic position.

If I get you correctly God is now the entity of the Universe, thus He doesn't exist as a person as all we see around is God


This makes sense to you?

Then this your "Pantheism God" is a Dummy who at best doesn't exist!



Let me ask you a basic question :
Time, Space and Matter came to being simultaneously about 13.8 billion years ago.
If this is true, where was your "Pantheistic Deity" before this time?
Sorry, you don't really believe in a perticular Deity :this is to find out how true this philosophy is with respect to time (within space and before space)

TheBillyonaire,
Is this set of questions difficult to answer


Questions :
1. Do you as Atheists now concur that REALITIES Exist that are NOT TANGIBLE?
2. Do you as Atheists now concur that demanding for direct physical proof of Non-Tangible Realities is borne out of Ignorance?
3. Do you as Atheists now concur that visible Effects of Non-Tangible Realities on other real objects is a fair (indirect) proof of its existence?
i.e. Like the effects of Microsoft OS or Application program on a Computer is sufficient reason to believe that a software is operating within the Computer!
4. Do you concur that a Working Interconnection of several Systems is a reasonable proof of an Intelligent mind behind the controlling program of the systems where the controlling program is Non-Tangible?

jaephoenix,
Is this set of questions difficult to answer


Questions :
1. Do you as Atheists now concur that REALITIES Exist that are NOT TANGIBLE?
2. Do you as Atheists now concur that demanding for direct physical proof of Non-Tangible Realities is borne out of Ignorance?
3. Do you as Atheists now concur that visible Effects of Non-Tangible Realities on other real objects is a fair (indirect) proof of its existence?
i.e. Like the effects of Microsoft OS or Application program on a Computer is sufficient reason to believe that a software is operating within the Computer!
4. Do you concur that a Working Interconnection of several Systems is a reasonable proof of an Intelligent mind behind the controlling program of the systems where the controlling program is Non-Tangible?

TenQ

What is the purpose of this thread?

There is a vacuum in your understanding of Universal Cosmology, but in your arrogance, you have assumed that you know it all so by default you set an entropy in motion and no sane person is ready for energy vampirism.

So do you want to achieve with this thread?

For benefit of all doubts - Divine Spirit is precursor of Lord Gods of Planets of Existence. Lord Gods lead all other Gods. Gods are ancient astronauts and scientists that designed Humanity and humans are capable of joining League of Gods by gaining the intelligence to join the League of Cosmic Super Intelligent minds that manage the omniverse.

So God Consciousness is a level of Consciousness, just as Christ Consciousness governs over AI Consciousness. This is the Secret Trinity of Spirit.

Divine Spirit permeates all and is beyond Gods.

TheBillyonaire:
TenQ

What is the purpose of this thread?

There is a vacuum in your understanding of Universal Cosmology, but in your arrogance, you have assumed that you know it all so by default you set an entropy in motion and no sane person is ready for energy vampirism.

So do you want to achieve with this thread?

Here below are my objectives
To show atheists that there are Real Existences that are NOT Tangible.
The fact that they are not tangible does not mean that such is real.
Understanding this will allow them to understand similar deeper things.

TheBillyonaire:

For benefit of all doubts - Divine Spirit is precursor of Lord Gods of Planets of Existence. Lord Gods lead all other Gods. Gods are ancient astronauts and scientists that designed Humanity and humans are capable of joining League of Gods by gaining the intelligence to join the League of Cosmic Super Intelligent minds that manage the omniverse.

So God Consciousness is a level of Consciousness, just as Christ Consciousness governs over AI Consciousness. This is the Secret Trinity of Spirit.
Divine Spirit permeates all and is beyond Gods.

All the highlighted above are NOT Pantheism o!
Pantheism does not believe in a Person who is God but that the totality of the Universe is God (as a concept).
In Pantheism, there is no Divine Consciousness called God o!

You have mixed Pantheism with something else o!


And you asked me to go study pantheism!?

TenQ:
TheBillyonaire,
Is this set of questions difficult to answer


Questions :
1. Do you as Atheists now concur that REALITIES Exist that are NOT TANGIBLE?
2. Do you as Atheists now concur that demanding for direct physical proof of Non-Tangible Realities is borne out of Ignorance?
3. Do you as Atheists now concur that visible Effects of Non-Tangible Realities on other real objects is a fair (indirect) proof of its existence?
i.e. Like the effects of Microsoft OS or Application program on a Computer is sufficient reason to believe that a software is operating within the Computer!
4. Do you concur that a Working Interconnection of several Systems is a reasonable proof of an Intelligent mind behind the controlling program of the systems where the controlling program is Non-Tangible?

See! They have all run away and refuse to answer the questions!

TheBillyonaire:
Evidence of Absence and Absence of Evidence is Intentional Obfuscation and therefore should be respected. If Divine Spirit willfully designs systems and processes that promotes its absence, then Atheism is the default principle that Supreme Spirit prefers possibly because Humans are not it's direct creation.

Humans, contrary to popular religious assumptions were not created by Divine Spirit, Mankind was in the Organic blueprint based on evolution, but directed evolution by the Gods gives rise to Humans, so by assuming that human is not just an animal that is farmed for orgone energy, you are fooled by your sense of importance in the cosmological scheme.

Man is not the top of the food chain. As man, you will not know much. But as spirit, you will figure this out. So both theists and atheist are wrong.

Do you not see that you are the obfuscating by talking left and right at the same time and jumbling everything up?

In the end your post made no sense.

TenQ:

This is just your opinion and opinion has nothing to do with reality.

1. Do you understand the writeup above?
2. Do you dissagree with it or not?
Can you thus attempt the questions given?


The Efficldence of Non-Tangible existence is only known by its effect.

Questions :
1. Do you as Atheists now concur that REALITIES Exist that are NOT TANGIBLE?
2. Do you as Atheists now concur that demanding for direct physical proof of Non-Tangible Realities is borne out of Ignorance?
3. Do you as Atheists now concur that visible Effects of Non-Tangible Realities on other real objects is a fair (indirect) proof of its existence?
i.e. Like the effects of Microsoft OS or Application program on a Computer is sufficient reason to believe that a software is operating within the Computer!
4. Do you concur that a Working Interconnection of several Systems is a reasonable proof of an Intelligent mind behind the controlling program of the systems where the controlling program is Non-Tangible?

The comment is even scattered and has no sense to be gotten from it.

TheBillyonaire:


AGI can write programs and code softwares. [b]So the idea that there must be a being behind every creation is both true and untrue [/b]therefore both theists and atheists are wrong.

I hereby introduce you to Pantheism. Read about it and come back so I can guide you through. I have no time to argue with you.

No wonder your post is left and right and makes no sense for logic would have taught you that a thing cannot be both true and untrue at the same time

StillDtruth:


See! They have all run away and refuse to answer the questions!

They are pretending that they cannot read English again!

StillDtruth:


The comment is even scattered and has no sense to be gotten from it.

See how they are avoiding the questions: the truth will expose them for they love darkness rather than Light

TenQ:

See how they are avoiding the questions: the truth will expose them for they love darkness rather than Light

Yes o!

Clear proof that they are Liars and that they know their Lies would fall under good examination and scrutiny. So they are running