GREAT BENIN IMPACT ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE.

In 1824, the republic of Brazil, in South America, forcibly obtained her independence from Portugal, cutting off the Umbilical cord which joined her to her European mother-country, other European were loathe to extend Diplomatic Recognition to the new country. The kingdom of Benin, under Oba Osemwende (1816-1848), was one of the first sovereign countries in the world to extend to this South American country the Diplomatic Recognition which validated her independence.

The Oba of Lagos; Oba Oshinlokun(1821-1829) had recommended to Benin City, a wealthy and literate Lagosian, a Brazilian returnee (whom the Lagos people generally call “Aguda”, just as they call the Lagos Sierra Leonean returnees “Saro”). This Aguda Grandee was His Excellency, Manoel Alves de Lima. He became the Ambassador Plenipotentiary of Oba Osemwende of Benin, to the Court of the Republic of Brazil, in the Capital Bahia.

It was only after this Recognition, extended by Benin to Brazil, that other European countries like Britain and France, and then Portugal herself, extended their own Diplomatic Recognition to the new Latin American Country.
Great Benin country has always had so much influence on world affairs at the International level in ages past whereas it’s neighbors where still Bush savages in the era and time the Benin people had sway in matters of world affairs.
Oba gha to kpere. Ise.

Excerpt from “Benin City, The Edo State Capital” by Late Dr. Aisien Ekhaguosa.

Edited by Imasuen Amowie Izoduwa

BENIN IMPACT ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE.

Benin recognised our Independence first, Brazil tells Oba of Benin
https://tribuneonlineng.com/benin-recognised-our-independence-first-brazil-tells-oba-of-benin/

Oya edo come and celebrate your own

Why are Dr Aisien's books not available on Amazon? I have often asked this question. It's unfortunate that the works of a resourceful and prolific chronicler (such as he appears to be) are not easily accessible.

Yep, we were discussing this in one of NL threads a couple of years ago.

Oba Osemwende (born Prince Erediauwa) was a phenomenal Oba. Lagos remained under Benin hegemony until his exit in 1848. Sacking of Akure and punishment of rebellious Deji Arankale in 1818 was also under his reign.

Of course, these days, USA and Argentina like to claim recognising Brazil first, but Brazilian govt is adamant that Benin Empire did so first.

@Areafada
@Samuk

Guys, there is a video of some impostors dressed in Benin attire who go to the meet the Oni of ife call him their father and give him greetings reserved to the Oba of Benin. The impostors also recount that oranmiyan fairytale and call it "what we know". The impostors are part of a theatrical group, but the video online is claiming the Oba of Benin sent them. The ennemies of Benin are already using it as propaganda. Why have nobody addressed that ? This is yet an other attack on us and you guys just let it go ? Someone needs to tame the Oni of ife and his obsession with Benin monarchy.

I've said it many times before that it were time to put those fairytales to death, and use true scientific research of history instead. Nobody listened, and now you have some impostors calling themselves "ogiso" and trying to discredit the Benin throne.

You don't fight a fairytale with your own fairytale when you can just do proper historical research and you would be vindicated ! But for that, you need to be willing to use your brains and not be intellectually lazy.

You people's intellectual laziness is what will destroy us all.

Ghostagain:
@Areafada
@Samuk

Guys, there is a video of some impostors dressed in Benin attire who go to the meet the Oni of ife call him their father and give him greetings reserved to the Oba of Benin. The impostors also recount that oranmiyan fairytale and call it "what we know". The impostors are part of a theatrical group, but the video online is claiming the Oba of Benin sent them. The ennemies of Benin are already using it as propaganda. Why have nobody addressed that ? This is yet an other attack on us and you guys just let it go ? Someone needs to tame the Oni of ife and his obsession with Benin monarchy.

I've said it many times before that it were time to put those fairytales to death, and use true scientific research of history instead. Nobody listened, and now you have some impostors calling themselves "ogiso" and trying to discredit the Benin throne.

You don't fight a fairytale with your own fairytale when you can just do proper historical research and you would be vindicated ! But for that, you need to be willing to use your brains and not be intellectually lazy.

Giving attention to such videos will be creating unnecessary awareness for it. I have not seen it and believe alot of people haven't seen it too. So it's better to ignore it.

Ogiamen has no claim to the throne, he is just spitting rubbish. He was never meant to be on the throne and even if he ruled, it wasn't going to be forever. So that family now claiming after almost 900years to be the rightful ruler of Benin is nonsense.

UMUAZEE:

Ogiamen has no claim to the throne, he is just spitting rubbish. He was never meant to be on the throne and even if he ruled, it wasn't going to be forever. So that family now claiming after almost 900years to be the rightful ruler of Benin is nonsense.

The point which you are missing is that ogiamien story is a fairytale which doesn't have any historical basis. But you guys are devaluating the authenticity of Benin by dwelling on fairytales. That is why ogiamien is able to create a claim for himself, and look at you, you are already half-believing him.
Intellectual laziness will have you and your heritage taking different paths, 419 will take your heritage while you will keep dwelling in fairytales.
Ogiamien family is a traitor's family, they betrayed Oba Ovonramwen, that is why the invading British troops burnt down all Benin city's houses except that of the ogiamien. That non burnt ancient Benin house and the intellectual laziness of our youths is what fuels the ogiamien.
Being smart is not a thing which you only do when you are at school and you want to get a good grade, you need to be smart everyday or you lose what belongs to you.

Sorry to say this, but you guys are very intellectually lazy. And that is a threat to keeping or even knowing your ancestral heritage.
Benin Empire has such a great and eyewitness-written history, but instead of tapping into that, you guys would rather discuss fairytales and whatever story anybody says, you guys believe at least half of the story. This is pitiful.

Ghostagain:

The point which you are missing is that ogiamien story is a fairytale which doesn't have any historical basis. But you guys are devaluating the authenticity of Benin by dwelling on fairytales. That is why ogiamien is able to create a claim for himself, and look at you, you are already half-believing him.
Intellectual laziness will have you and your heritage taking different paths, 419 will take your heritage while you will keep dwelling in fairytales.
Ogiamien family is a traitor's family, they betrayed Oba Ovonramwen, that is why the invading British troops burnt down all Benin city's houses except that of the ogiamien. That non burnt ancient Benin house and the intellectual laziness of our youths is what fuels the ogiamien.
Being smart is not a thing which you only do when you are at school and you want to get a good grade, you need to be smart everyday or you lose what belongs to you.

Benin history wasn't documented on paper by our ancestors, we can only make sense of the oral accounts given by our elders.
Anyways, I seen the video you mentioned earlier. The palace should discredit those chiefs that went to Ife.

UMUAZEE:


Benin history wasn't documented on paper by our ancestors, we can only make sense of the oral accounts given by our elders.

This is what I am talking about, you don't even know that our region has been recieving frequent visits from Europeans right from the 1400's. Those guys had a written language, they wrote down what they saw and made maps of the region. It is like you never even heard of this.
History is the study of eyewitness written documents, not the study of tales told by people who were born hundreds of years after the period of time which they are describing.

How many years have I spent posting such documents on nairaland and explaining what history actually is, yet each time I leave, you guys just forget everything and revert back to fairytales. This is what I meant by intellectual laziness.

Remember the expression:
"A fool and his money are soon parted"
So please let us not be fools.

Ghostagain:

History is the study of eyewitness written documents, not the study of tales told by people who were born hundreds of years after the period of time which they are describing.

Jan Vansina did not spend his entire professional career developing an elaborate methodology for mining historical truth from tradition for you to be saying this in 2024.

How many years have I spent posting such documents on nairaland and explaining what history actually is, yet each time I leave, you guys just forget everything and revert back to fairytales. This is what I meant by intellectual laziness.

You do have an over-inflated sense of your own importance. No, you're not as knowledgeable as you think.

RedboneSmith:

Jan Vansina did not spend his entire professional career developing an elaborate methodology for mining historical truth from tradition for you to be saying this in 2024.

Jan Vansina was an idiot and a crook, he may have fooled you, but I'm not as dumb as you.
How silly of you to think that just throwing in someone's name without actual logical arguments would win your arguments. You don't think with logic, you think with name recognition, your proof is "Jan Vansina" not actual logic. Grow up !

Ghostagain:

Jan Vansina was an idiot and a crook, he may have fooled you, but I'm not as dumb as you.

Show me your peer-reviewed papers. Where have you been published?

"Not as dumb as you". More of that over-inflated sense of importance. I've seen your discussions here; and no you're not very bright. But I understand why you think you are. People who have only seen their d.icks will swear they have the biggest one.

Ghostagain:

You don't think with logic, you think with name recognition, your proof is "Jan Vansina" not actual logic. Grow up !

One question: Have you read any of Vansina's books? I am not asking if you buy into his ideas or not. Scholars disagree and that's okay.

I just want to know: Have you read any of his books, especially "Oral Tradition as History"?

RedboneSmith:


One question: Have you read any of Vansina's books? I am not asking if you buy into his ideas or not. Scholars disagree and that's okay.

I just want to know: Have you read any of his books, especially "Oral Tradition as History"?

You have described his ideas to me enough for me to know he's a crook, I don't have time to read the rantings of foolish crooks.

"Oral tradition as history", the title gives it away, oral "tradition" is not history, just fairytales told by storytellers.

RedboneSmith:


Show me your peer-reviewed papers. Where have you been published?

"Not as dumb as you". More of that over-inflated sense of importance. I've seen your discussions here; and no you're not very bright. But I understand why you think you are. People who have only seen their d.icks will swear they have the biggest one.

🤣🤣
Dude, I'm not going to reveal my identity. I'm not interested in being harassed by an army of Nigerian trolls.
By the way some years ago, I was schooling you on nairaland with an other handle.

Ghostagain:

You have described his ideas to me enough for me to know he's a crook, I don't have time to read the rantings of foolish crooks.

"Oral tradition as history", the title gives it away, oral "tradition" is not history, just fairytales told by storytellers.

Lmao. So without being familiar with his work (a man widely acclaimed as one of the greatest Africanists of the 20th century, by the way), you've called him an idiot and a crook. How logical. How scholarly. How intellectually unlazy. 😂

FYI, Vansina is strongly critical of oral tradition. Vansina never said a researcher should just accept traditions transmitted across the centuries as historical fact. When I brought up his work, I sure as hell wasn't saying oral tradition was an erro-free objective source of history. Nobody recognised that more than Vansina among all his peers working in the African field.

But I guess there is no need to go into the detail of his invaluable contribution (and the contributions of other historians interested in looking beyond documents to fill the gaps in our knowledge of the African past) since you wouldn't even bother to understand the subject before "unlazily" rejecting them.

By the way, if you were the intelligent scholar you think you are, you should have figured out long before now that contemporary written sources (as invaluable as they are) come with their own shortcomings as well: writer's bias is a real thing; communication gulfs between the culture of the writer and the culture of the writer's subject could and often did lead to misrepresentation. But this is a whole other discussion above your pay grade, I'm sure.

RedboneSmith:


Lmao. So without being familiar with his work (a man widely acclaimed as one of the greatest Africanists of the 20th century, by the way), you've called him an idiot and a crook. How logical. How scholarly. How intellectually unlazy. 😂

If a guy wrote a book of how you can get to the moon by jumping very high, I would also disregard his book and call him a lunatic without reading his book, so long I know the crazy and false thesis which his book defends.
If a mathematician writes a book of how 1=2, I will also disregard that book without reading it and call him a lunatic, because I already have proof of
not(1=2).

You are intellectually disabled, I'm not. You are food for crooks like the white guy whom you quoted, I'm not.
I'm smart, you're dumb. We don't go by the same rules. I don't care about people's names or reputations, I look at the logic of what they are saying. I've had some of the best mathematicians in the world as my professors, I never hesitated to contradict them while I was their student, and guess what, I was right each time. I am never impressed with people's names or reputations. None of that matters to me.

We don't operate at the same levels of knowledge, you are a consumer of created knowledge, I'm a creator of knowledge.
I spend more time writing books than reading anything. Right now I've got three books which I'm writing. Two of them are in pause, I've almost finished the third one.
Me and you, not the same species in terms of intelligence.

Ghostagain:

🤣🤣
Dude, I'm not going to reveal my identity. I'm not interested in being harassed by an army of Nigerian trolls.
By the way some years ago, I was schooling you on nairaland with an other handle.

Benin people claiming to have schooled me will never stop being funny to me. 😂😂😂

There was one boy called Greg who used to run around here claiming to have schooled me, even after I have repeatedly and thoroughly dismantled his half-brained arguments and showed him up to be not-quite-bright.

What is this collective delusion that makes you all think you are making strong points and schooling people, when all you're doing is showing how narrow and subjective and stunted your understanding of history and historical methods are?


I think I remember you sef. Aren't you some guy who called himself Prolog or something? Lived in France? Is a mathematician or something like that? If that's you, and you think you ever schooled me on this platform, your delulu is top shelf. 😂

There are only two Benin people I have met on this platform who I can say I have learnt from. Both of them have left this forum: PhysicsQED and Bokohalal. Now these two guys (especially the former) knew their stuff. Exceptionally well-read and able to articulate their points with proper academic references. I didn't always agree with them, but at least I could respect their opinions. But as for the rest of you, there's nothing to choose between you all and the guy in a beer parlour talking about how Nnamdi Azikiwe turned into a fly and flew into a bottle.

RedboneSmith:

There are only two Benin people I have met on this platform who I can say I have learnt from. Both of them have left this forum: PhysicsQED and Bokohalal. Now these two guys (especially the former) knew their stuff. Exceptionally well-read and able to articulate their points with proper academic references. I didn't always agree with them, but at least I could respect their opinions. But as for the rest of you, there's nothing to choose between you all and the guy in a beer parlour talking about how Nnamdi Azikiwe turned into a fly and flew into a bottle.

Dude, what exactly makes you think I value your judgement ? 🤣
This is as if after a physicist tries to teach some physics to a 6 year old, the six year old comes and tells the physicist that the physicist sucks at physics and some other guy is much better than him 🤣
Ok dummy.

Ghostagain:

If a guy wrote a book of how you can get to the moon by jumping very high, I would also disregard his book and call him a lunatic without reading his book, so long I know the crazy and false thesis which his book defends.

This is why I say you are NOT bright. Using your own analogy: How did you know the book is about jumping and getting to the moon when you haven't read the book, you haven't read a review, you haven't read a blurb? You haven't read nothing.

I can bet you haven't heard of Vansina until tonight.

On what exactly is your dismissal of his work based?

I see where you called yourself a scientist. Scientist that reaches conclusion on a decades-long worth of work without looking at the data. Bro, you're just as dumb as the next man.

I am not impressed by your being a mathematician. In your (I will say it again) overinflated sense of self-importance you think you're the only one with an academic bent in this thread. Does my writing style come across to you like it comes from an illiterate?

This is not something I like to talk about, but since you want to impress on me the fact that you have a degree in mathematics, I'd have you know that I have not one, not two, but three degrees in a STEM field. Two from European universities. And they didn't cost me a penny. Full scholarships both times. 11 peer-reviewed papers to my name. Will be 13 in a few months. I'm not your average Joe.

But you see, I don't bring it up in a faceless forum (unlike you) because who cares? Who do I want to impress? It's only little people that feel the need to overcompensate.

Last word: You don't know Vansina. You don't know the great revolutions that have been happening in the field of African studies since the 1960s. You do not know that besides primary written sources, other sources like linguistics, archaeology, ethnography and (yes!) oral tradition have been helping scholars piece together the African story. You do not know anything and you're not interested in knowing. Should probably stick to your mathematics.

Ghostagain:

Dude, what exactly makes you think I value your judgement ? 🤣
This is as if after a physicist tries to teach some physics to a 6 year old, the six year old comes and tells the physicist that the physicist sucks at physics and some other guy is much better than him 🤣
Ok dummy.

You're right. You don't need to value my judgement. I'm only correcting this impression that you have about schooling me. I've only ever valued the contributions of two Benin people here. The rest of you no reach. You in particular don't have the knowledge base to engage anyone on African history. That's all I'm saying. Not asking you to value anything.

Ghostagain:

This is what I am talking about, you don't even know that our region has been recieving frequent visits from Europeans right from the 1400's. Those guys had a written language, they wrote down what they saw and made maps of the region. It is like you never even heard of this.
History is the study of eyewitness written documents, not the study of tales told by people who were born hundreds of years after the period of time which they are describing.

How many years have I spent posting such documents on nairaland and explaining what history actually is, yet each time I leave, you guys just forget everything and revert back to fairytales. This is what I meant by intellectual laziness.

Bro our history did not start with the first visit of the westerners/Europeans.. The Europeans documented what they saw or met on ground and we have all seen that.
I was referring to our history long before the coming of the Europeans, that history wasn't documented.. we rely on oral accounts.

Ghostagain:
@Areafada
@Samuk


I've said it many times before that it were time to put those fairytales to death, and use true scientific research of history instead. Nobody listened, and now you have some impostors calling themselves "ogiso" and trying to discredit the Benin throne.

You don't fight a fairytale with your own fairytale when you can just do proper historical research and you would be vindicated ! But for that, you need to be willing to use your brains and not be intellectually lazy.

I have a post here which I wrote sometime ago in which I broke down Benin history into two parts:

1. Pre - 1897 eyewitnesses backed history of Benin
AND
2. Post - 1897 political/fairy tales history of Benin.

I am also a realist to know that like must things such as religion etc, history could also be a political tool for relevance.

The Post - 1897 Benin history have become a political tool in the hands of the Yoruba people. The reason is simple, Benin remains the cradle of Black civilization and the yoruba people have been struggling since the fall of Benin in 1897 to claim it through the Oduduwa fairy tale.

I did also argued that the Oduduwa narrative have come to stay and it will be exercise in futility trying to argue against it now because millions believe in it, what is then required is to manage the narrative from the Benin end. Christians believe Jesus ascended to heaven, trying to argue against this with logic and science has always been a waste of time because majority of humans don't usually subscribe to logic.

We can shout from now to eternity, provide all the logical and scientific prove that Oduduwa was a fairytale, there are and will always be millions of people that believe he is their progenitor. The Oduduwa story will always be sustained by his association with Benin, the cradle of Black civilization. I believe that this realisation is why the Benin palace starting from Oba Erediawa 11 of blessed memory tried to control the narrative.

Take Benin out of Yoruba and Ife history, what will be left will be eyewitness historical accounts not older/earlier than 1824. Rather than trying to tell millions of yoruba worldwide that Ododuwa is a fairytale, I prefer to control the narrative as it concern Benin history.

Yoruba tried stealing Benin history through Oduduwa but ended up handing Benin palace and people the historical knife and yam. As it stands Benin is the one with the traditions and arts to back up the fairytale.

Unlike the Oba of Benin, the Ooni is a political stool, the Ooni is only a figure head of the Yoruba people. The spiritual head of half of the Yoruba people is the Sultan of Sokoto whilst the remaining half subscribed to christianity.

I am not bothered by the yoruba narrative because it will fades off with time as long as the Benin palace continues to promote the Benin/Africa indigenous spirituality.

In the future, Africa diaspora that seeks authentic Africa history will only have Benin City as their destination, especially with the cultural district that is currently being developed by the Edo state government.

[quote author=Ghostagain post=129645518]@Areafada
@Samuk

Guys, there is a video of some impostors dressed in Benin attire who go to the meet the Oni of ife call him their father and give him greetings reserved to the Oba of Benin. The impostors also recount that oranmiyan fairytale and call it "what we know". The impostors are part of a theatrical group, but the video online is claiming the Oba of Benin sent them. The ennemies of Benin are already using it as propaganda. Why have nobody addressed that ? This is yet an other attack on us and you guys just let it go ? Someone needs to tame the Oni of ife and his obsession with Benin monarchy.

https://dailypost.ng/2024/04/27/oba-of-benin-suspends-six-officials-for-posing-as-palace-emissaries-to-ooni-of-ife/?utm_source=operamini&utm_medium=feednews&utm_campaign=operamini_feednews

Ghostagain:
@Areafada
@Samuk

Guys, there is a video of some impostors dressed in Benin attire who go to the meet the Oni of ife call him their father and give him greetings reserved to the Oba of Benin. The impostors also recount that oranmiyan fairytale and call it "what we know". The impostors are part of a theatrical group, but the video online is claiming the Oba of Benin sent them. The ennemies of Benin are already using it as propaganda. Why have nobody addressed that ? This is yet an other attack on us and you guys just let it go ? Someone needs to tame the Oni of ife and his obsession with Benin monarchy.

I've said it many times before that it were time to put those fairytales to death, and use true scientific research of history instead. Nobody listened, and now you have some impostors calling themselves "ogiso" and trying to discredit the Benin throne.

You don't fight a fairytale with your own fairytale when you can just do proper historical research and you would be vindicated ! But for that, you need to be willing to use your brains and not be intellectually lazy.

Tame ooni of ife?what is there to be obsessed about inferior Yoruba king called Oku opolo in Benin palace? We don't come to your palace to claim anything,your people came to ile ife because they know their Origin yet you still audacity to blame us.

UMUAZEE:


Bro our history did not start with the first visit of the westerners/Europeans.. The Europeans documented what they saw or met on ground and we have all seen that.
I was referring to our history long before the coming of the Europeans, that history wasn't documented.. we rely on oral accounts.

I'm not using kid's gloves with you anymore.
You don't know what history is.
Your intellectual laziness is killing our culture !
"History" and "past" are two different things.
Everybody has a past ! But not everybody has a history ! Do you understand that ?
History is a bunch of events which are proven, not a bunch of fairytales told by story tellers describing a period of time which is hundreds of years before their birth.

You can't understand this because you are not using your brain fully. You believe "elders" have magical powers to do some time travel and see what took place hundreds of years before they were born ?
History is the study of eyewitness-written documents. You don't need to be a genius to understand this.

This is 2024 and your brain is stuck in 1970. Your brain is lazy, very lazy.