vedaxcool:

I believe a "religious" propaganda movie accurately portrays the irreligious? Are u kidding or you didn't read the OP? I simply relate the tale of an ex atheist who happens to have been an atheist out of sheer frustration and anger and ask whether u NL atheist find your condition similar to the case of the guy in the movie, the response to this thread so far have been telling indeed. It reassert my initial thoughts of atheist on nl, their response have been mediocre and extremely illogical, I wonder whether they can have an honest look at their cheap writings that mimics the behavior of a Bugler who hears his crime and then act dumb . . . And ask themselves whether they have logically address the issues raised always running to talk of God that u do not believe in. When simple queries are made about your disbelief remains a source of bewilderment indeed! The emotional outpouring seen so far simply lives up to the reputation of the atheist in the film the rite, when his position no longer seem sensible he tried shouting and when shouting. Troubled souls or minds when facing monumental challenges atimes begin to express frustration against their sole liberator and in some cases it unfortunately turns up to atheism etc.

I wonder what do you guys think of the atheist in the film The Rite?

You are a troll that revels in ignorance. Every atheist here has told you in one way or the other that the atheist in that movie does not apply to many atheists.

I used Boko Haram as an example, they use islam as a justification for terrorism. Majority of muslims dont think like that

Another person has told you that a religious movie like that can not really portray the position of an atheist.



Furthermore, I repeat; asking if my atheism is out of anger is as silly as me asking you if your Islam is out of terrorism.


Stop judging real life with fairytale movies.

@vedaxcool,

Several atheists including myself have clearly explained and re-explained times without number on this forum that our disbelief in religion and supernatural entities in general comes mostly from the unshakable doubt that it's all man-made falsehood and we have repeatedly put the ball in the court of religious folks to prove otherwise to no avail.

The average atheist who was raised in a Christian household is more knowledgeable about Christianity and the bible than the average Christian (personally, i'll include the so called "Men of God" coz they are my specialty).

It has nothing to do with "anger" or some irrational emotion as you people love to believe. To sum it all :

ALL IT TAKES TO DUMP RELIGION IS APPLYING BASIC COMMON SENSE AND BEING BOLD ENOUGH TO CHALLENGE THE CONTRACTIONS OF THAT RELIGION!!!

Nuff said!

@ harakiri

I am terra-baffled that a simple post that states a movie based on a real life story has become so difficult to even understand and I say views stated so far have shown illogical bogotry and latent fanaticism. How else do we state that the thread assumes that atheism is out of anger etc but simply provides a story that shows atheism of certain individual cannot be attributed to any serious thinking. Now u have restated that you being an atheist is not based on emotional anger good for you, reminding me of what mazaje said when attacking muslims source, that he cannot depend upon them since there is no external source to verify their claims, now again I ask couldn't we say how do we know you guys are lying ? Since we have no external source to verify whether what you guys tell us is the truth about your atheism not being out of anger, we could even add that to compound the situation you have nullified the very "fact" that would make lying seem unacceptable. Well that is another pot of fish I mean after all u didn't make such statement but my point being that one of the chief reasons to suspect that you atheists are a gang of fustrated men can be seen from the usual illogical manner you guys argument, I mean can you be honest enough to state that logicboy is not boy frustrated to atheism from his usually poor argument and consistent inability to make coherent and rational points? Or like I indicated about mazaje poor show of sense by requesting external verification of claims which if we apply now would deem all you guys denial of frustration unacceptable, or merely looking at your user name we could raise suspicion of frustration, anger etc. Anyway have u watched the movie.

rolls eyes

vedaxcool: @ harakiri

I am terra-baffled that a simple post that states a movie based on a real life story has become so difficult to even understand and I say views stated so far have shown illogical bogotry and latent fanaticism. How else do we state that the thread assumes that atheism is out of anger etc but simply provides a story that shows atheism of certain individual cannot be attributed to any serious thinking. Now u have restated that you being an atheist is not based on emotional anger good for you, reminding me of what mazaje said when attacking muslims source, that he cannot depend upon them since there is no external source to verify their claims, now again I ask couldn't we say how do we know you guys are lying ? Since we have no external source to verify whether what you guys tell us is the truth about your atheism not being out of anger, we could even add that to compound the situation you have nullified the very "fact" that would make lying seem unacceptable. Well that is another pot of fish I mean after all u didn't make such statement but my point being that one of the chief reasons to suspect that you atheists are a gang of fustrated men can be seen from the usual illogical manner you guys argument, I mean can you be honest enough to state that logicboy is not boy frustrated to atheism from his usually poor argument and consistent inability to make coherent and rational points? Or like I indicated about mazaje poor show of sense by requesting external verification of claims which if we apply now would deem all you guys denial of frustration unacceptable, or merely looking at your user name we could raise suspicion of frustration, anger etc. Anyway have u watched the movie.

Dude,

The only reason i bothered commenting on this thread is because there are some un-independent minds that might take your BS to be fact. I am doing it for THEIR benefit. Bantering with you is not worth the time of day. I don't do dullards. Sorry.

harakiri:

Dude,

The only reason i bothered commenting on this thread is because there are some un-independent minds that might take your BS to be fact. I am doing it for THEIR benefit. Bantering with you is not worth the time of day. I don't do dullards. Sorry.

Like I said, Vedaxcool is a troll. When hit with logical arguments, he goes around in circles repeating his debunked claims to annoy people.

logicboy:


Like I said, Vedaxcool is a troll. When hit with logical arguments, he goes around in circles repeating his debunked claims to annoy people.

You know, there was a time i wasted 48hours of my precious time bantering and replying his nonsense via laptop and phone. I wish i could get those 48hours back.

harakiri:

Dude,

The only reason i bothered commenting on this thread is because there are some un-independent minds that might take your BS to be fact. I am doing it for THEIR benefit. Bantering with you is not worth the time of day. I don't do dullards. Sorry.

Well thanks for your opinion so you admit you were bantering?, Dude I only bothered replying you to[b] save the public[/b] from poo shit lol , though I can't recall spending up to 5 minutes discussing anything with you talk less of even 48 hrs. possibly you may be confusing me with somebody who tried reasoning with you, in any case don't commit a harakiri due to the frustration we all take being an atheist bring.

vedaxcool:


In islam, Allah requires man think, numerous verses of the Qur'an calls man to reason, ponder, consider etc hence faith in Islam is not just to belief but to understand, to reason and to ponder. Reading the Qur'an u will notice what I will call simple rational argument that are faultless indeed. If the skeptic is an honest person reading the Qur'an will serve as an argument for believing in Allah. But you come to find that most skeptics have been indoctrinated to reject the truth of Islam even before learning the truth for themselves.

Good. But before we accept Islam, we must accept the Quran. BUT where does the authority of the Quran come from?? And what provides for it rules of interpretation?

vedaxcool: Islam as we know it today came in 1400 yrs ago, but the Qur'an again establishes what I will call a rational explanation for ur question.

We muslims believe as it is written in the Qur'an that Allah guided humanity from time immemorial till date, as Allah says " there was not a nation we did not send messenger to" hence from the time man was created till date Allah has been sending guide to mankind, hence the message of Islam was present from times past but not in the complete form. And despite the fact that you would not see or hear of people worshiping God as Allah, we learn from the Qur'an that ". . . To Allah are all the beautiful names" hence whether addressed as olorun, omohiri, etc we believe that these could have been names people used to call upon Allah in their own tongue, hence indeed Allah we believe has continue to guide mankind even before the prophethood of muhammad. But we also believe that the pure religion revealed to different nations got corrupted as time went past . . . Most people not believing Islam do so at their ignorance as such.

But we shouldn't make the mistake that every object or being named God is the same the true God. Its only if the ESSENCE of such a being matches with the true God, then they are of the same identity. However the religions you mentioned are polytheistic in nature and is incomplete without reining in the roles and powers of the other Gods, which corrupt and diminish the Essence and power of the true God.

We will have to assume that the True God will have used the BEST form of communication to us.

Messengers: this isn't an effective manner, the credibility of such an individual will be in question. His message can only be believed along with the general standards of evidence. Also being a medium between God and man, corrupts the message, rather than being a facilitator, he becomes a barrier of misunderstanding.

And if God can reveal himself to a messenger, then he can do such to everyone else, cos there is no barrier preventing him from doing such. So a revelation is a direct BUT pure personal message.

Also God would have to keep sending messengers in every generation.

Intuition: what better way for the almighty true God to communicate to us than planting his message, his desires and intents for us in our minds. Free from corruption of other men, and pure. Most of all personal. Every human will be equipped with it. It would be as self evident as our own existence.

vedaxcool:

Well thanks for your opinion so you admit you were bantering?, Dude I only bothered replying you to[b] save the public[/b] from poo shit lol , though I can't recall spending up to 5 minutes discussing anything with you talk less of even 48 hrs. possibly you may be confusing me with somebody who tried reasoning with you, in any case don't commit a harakiri due to the frustration we all take being an atheist bring.

Keep trolling. You movie atheist theory has been debunked.

logicboy:



Keep trolling. You movie atheist theory has been debunked.

Child of ignorance have u noticed I ignored ur iraational banter? Because most of what you say has its roots in stupidity and low intellect!

vedaxcool:

Child of ignorance have u noticed I ignored ur iraational banter? Because most of what you say has its roots in stupidity and low intellect!

[img]http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Troll+Harder+Boy_4609fa_1018332.jpg[/img]

Kay 17: Good. But before we accept Islam, we must accept the Quran. BUT where does the authority of the Quran come from?? And what provides for it rules of interpretation?

Nowhere did I say you must accept the Qur'an, I only say you should read and he the truth will be evident from it. And u don't need to know really whose authority it is from since, u can simply read it and subject its claims to test. As for interpretation, you don't need any rule per say for interpreting it, since mostly it is written plainly, but some few verses might require further reading texts of the hadiths. I can say basically the mode of transmission of the Qur'an might make the only requirement be that certain verses explains some other verses more, but again it requires that the skeptic be honest and not indoctrinated and only interested in rehearsing what he was told.

Kay 17:
But we shouldn't make the mistake that every object or being named God is the same the true God. Its only if the ESSENCE of such a being matches with the true God, then they are of the same identity. However the religions you mentioned are polytheistic in nature and is incomplete without reining in the roles and powers of the other Gods, which corrupt and diminish the Essence and power of the true God.

I didn't get the last part of your statement, but u misunderstood what I wrote, as I said this polytheistic religion became corrupted from their initial way, looking at Hindus one would see the religious scriptures both supporting\condemning polytheism. Maybe u could clarify what u meant by the rest of your statement.

Kay 17:
We will have to assume that the True God will have used the BEST form of communication to us.

Messengers: this isn't an effective manner, the credibility of such an individual will be in question. His message can only be believed along with the general standards of evidence. Also being a medium between God and man, corrupts the message, rather than being a facilitator, he becomes a barrier of misunderstanding.

And if God can reveal himself to a messenger, then he can do such to everyone else, cos there is no barrier preventing him from doing such. So a revelation is a direct BUT pure personal message.

Also God would have to keep sending messengers in every generation.

Intuition: what better way for the almighty true God to communicate to us than planting his message, his desires and intents for us in our minds. Free from corruption of other men, and pure. Most of all personal. Every human will be equipped with it. It would be as self evident as our own existence.

Really, you can't really assume anything on how God decides to communicate with man, do you then begin to assume why God created man in the first place and why he placed him on earth? And I don't know how you came to the conclusion messengers didn't communicate God messages well or are ineffective, could one say God ensured his message got tru to the people? Ur line of reasoning is one that prefers holding others responsible for your own misguidiance, I wonder why you didn't why God did appear to you to simply convince you . . . We could likewise argue that people are born with the innate thoughts that God created them or they were created by a Creator or the very extreme the first man was created we could then say it was man environment that actually corrupted him of God existence, and ur questions were ask by the pagan meccans and even the jews requested to see God, it is not new man seem to be in an endless circle of similar questions either asking for impossible things or asking for things that are not the way God has choosen to guide man. Though u are taking your initial far offcourse, I would say if you read the Qur'an u would find answers and in addition we have to ask what do u concieve God to be, if ur conception is wrong wouldn't u then be permanently drifting away till eternity?

vedaxcool:

Nowhere did I say you must accept the Qur'an, I only say you should read and he the truth will be evident from it. And u don't need to know really whose authority it is from since, u can simply read it and subject its claims to test. As for interpretation, you don't need any rule per say for interpreting it, since mostly it is written plainly, but some few verses might require further reading texts of the hadiths. I can say basically the mode of transmission of the Qur'an might make the only requirement be that certain verses explains some other verses more, but again it requires that the skeptic be honest and not indoctrinated and only interested in rehearsing what he was told.

The Koran in English is quite haphazard. You read one translation and an Arabic-speaking muslim will tell you that you're wrong. Vedaxcool, Tbaba and LagosShia all say that the Koran doesnt support wife beating. So tell me, are these fake English translations;

Yusuf Ali: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

Pickthall: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.


Shakir: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great. )
Qur'an

Another sign of these frustration is found in this post here;

cyrexx:

no its not your imaginary Allah that perfect anything. it is his dead-brained and brainwashed slaves who do his ugly stuff for him. allah cant do sh.it for himself without you guys.

here we read a person directing his anger to an entity he claims does not exist, do you see the frustration i talk about, more shortly!

A rational atheist here finds the truth:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKvUaji2SO0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrG8ooymBKA&feature=related

Atheist with sensible understanding of Islam Lesley Hazleton

enjoy!

vedaxcool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrG8ooymBKA&feature=related

Atheist with sensible understanding of Islam Lesley Hazleton

enjoy!

That woman is a shill.

Epic fail. Do some research before putting up nonsense

Lol

No proof = no evidence for claim! Frustration at play.

vedaxcool:

Lols and lmaos seems appropriate here , the atheist is pained that one of his "own" (off course reading his response there is no basis to ever think they have similar capacity to reason) reasoned in a manner that befits a rational thinking person, she is suddenly bought for Islam yet the "logic" he lives by provides not an iota of proof to support his claim yet we should believe the woman is paid to say what she says simply because this boy has appropriated himself the prophet atheism . . . We see how irrational this people are . . . Only good on throwing allegations without proof!

1)@ bold part Projection. Just because you are pained everytime a boko haram blows himself in the name of your Allah, it doesnt mean that the same happens with atheist. Dont project your butthurt on others. I am not like you and there is no equivalence/similarity between atheism and Islamic thinking


2)The woman that you like so much is an agnostic.


3) The woman in the video is a confused person shilling for Islam. Please, look as how she describes herself;

She has described herself as "a Jew who once seriously considered becoming a rabbi, a former convent schoolgirl who daydreamed about being a nun, an agnostic with a deep sense of religious mystery though no affinity for organized religion".[3] "Everything is paradox," she has said. "The danger is one-dimensional thinking".

Is this somebody that should have any credibility speaking for the Quran?


I will leave to your newly discovered video to gloat like a fool who has found fake gold and thinks it is real

^

Lol this dude has lost control posting stuffs from other threads, and you tell me these people aren't frustrated! yeah we pray u do not end up crying . . .

Islam was meant for one person only >>>> Prophet Muhammed.

mazaje: How can one be frustrated or angry about something that doesn't exist?. . .Gods don't exist, it is the belief in Gods and religions that exists, 4000 years ago the ONLY God that existed in the mighty Egypt was Amun Ra, in Greece at that time it was Zeus, 1000 years ago the Mayans had their own God. . .Allah and Jesus have now replaced Ran in Eygypt. . .Jesus has replaced most of the Mayan God etc. . .Religion is nothing other than people's culture, some love to spread theirs around while others want to keep it to themselves. . .All Gods are man made and reflect the culture of the society that created the God idea. . .Religions are nothing other than the culture or way of life of a group of people. . .All Gods are man made and as such men MUST write down their books for them, teach other men about them and what they want, fight for them, execute their plans for them, plead on their behalf, spread their supposed message etc. . .The day people stop to believe in a particular version of God that God dies off. . .Zeus, Ra, Phalango and many many other countless Gods that have been relegated to mythology because people no longer believe in them. . , Gods don't exist believe in Gods is what exist. . .I am an atheist because of the FACT that men created all the Gods they worship. . .Without Mohammed, his cronies and the stories they created while indoctrinated people with and made sure the people kept repeating and indoctrinating themselves with their stories and supposed reality, people wouldn't believe in Allah. . .

@ ho

@ bolded You are an atheist because you have failed to make the very simple inference that just as things have creators the universe wherein which we find ourselves has a Creator. A very logical inference to make indeed.

mazaje: How can one be frustrated or angry about something that doesn't exist?. . .Gods don't exist, it is the belief in Gods and religions that exists, 4000 years ago the ONLY God that existed in the mighty Egypt was Amun Ra, in Greece at that time it was Zeus, 1000 years ago the Mayans had their own God. . .Allah and Jesus have now replaced Ran in Eygypt. . .Jesus has replaced most of the Mayan God etc. . .Religion is nothing other than people's culture, some love to spread theirs around while others want to keep it to themselves. . .All Gods are man made and reflect the culture of the society that created the God idea. . .Religions are nothing other than the culture or way of life of a group of people. . .All Gods are man made and as such men MUST write down their books for them, teach other men about them and what they want, fight for them, execute their plans for them, plead on their behalf, spread their supposed message etc. . .The day people stop to believe in a particular version of God that God dies off. . .Zeus, Ra, Phalango and many many other countless Gods that have been relegated to mythology because people no longer believe in them. . , Gods don't exist believe in Gods is what exist. . .I am an atheist because of the FACT that men created all the Gods they worship. . .Without Mohammed, his cronies and the stories they created while indoctrinated people with and made sure the people kept repeating and indoctrinating themselves with their stories and supposed reality, people wouldn't believe in Allah. . .

@ ho

@ bolded You are an atheist because you have failed to make the very simple inference that just as things have creators the universe wherein which we find ourselves has a Creator. A very logical inference to make indeed.

Kay 17: Islam was meant for one person only >>>> Prophet Muhammed.

And how does this statement address the op?

See what I mean by frustration and anger . . .

Uyi Iredia:

@ ho

@ bolded You are an atheist because you have failed to make the very simple inference that just as things have creators the universe wherein which we find ourselves has a Creator. A very logical inference to make indeed.

Epic fail! You just made a fallacious statement and not a logical one.


The universe is not a thing. It is a collection of things.


It is like saying; "all instruments in an orchestra are played in harmony, therefore all orchestras are played in harmony"

^^

Since things have Creators, who is the Creator for the creator of the Universe?!

Also from what did he create the Universe?