A big question.
Actually, God don’t condemn anyone to anywhere. Everyone writes their own ticket. Everyone gets on their own train to wherever they end up. God gives people opportunities to make choices. People choose where they want to go by the choices they make in their lives. What is disturbing is that people make the wrong choices knowing when they make the choice, that choice is wrong and then they think God will be understanding and let them slide by and alter their destination. Each of us carves our future in stone that cannot be erased except by repentance and coming to Christ for forgiveness. All the mistakes, all the wrongs, all the decisions made with a sinful heart can be erased when people come to the Cross and understand who Christ was and is and then they must repent and turn away from their sinful life.

So what is actually Sin then?
Sin is when people go their own way rather than God's way. Every person has their own mind, their own heart, and their own soul. When people turn away from God and do what Satan wants them to do then that is a sin. People are born with 2 ears. I am not talking about the physical ears, I am talking about spiritual ears. One spiritual ear is tuned to Satan’s call. One spiritual ear is tuned to God's Call. People do make choices about who they want to listen to. The sinful nature of man is within the person from birth. Every person is born with selfishness in their heart and an ear to evil and darkness as well as an ear to God. Satan and God conflict within each person. There is truly a war for each person’s soul. Some people are born and raised in total darkness and never hear God's voice yet they still have the spiritual ear to hear God.
Even after you come to Christ and repent, you still have that ear that can hear Satan. You must continually pray that you resist the cunning voice of Satan and listen only to God. What everyone must understand is that after you repent then Satan will still come after you. Accepting Christ into your life does not mean you no longer are deaf to Satan and temptation. Many people want to believe they are deaf to Satan after salvation but it is not true. What all must remember is that God is always speaking to you.
When a Christian commit sin lets all say for the first time,he feels so much guilt but then when he deosnt turn away and continue to sin more,then he no longer feels guilty and that can grow into perversion eg sexual immorality because we buy into so many sex lie in the modern world full of nudity and pornography easily assesible n even if ur not looking for it,its just around you.One cant just stop this sin of addiction easily by just cutting it off and tries so hard to stop.Its not about how hard you try.The only solution is to embrace the truth.And that truth is Jesus and the more we embrace or get closer to God ,the more we drift away from such sin and cling to Jesus.
Our lifestyle should glorify God.
Life is short n we shouldnt buy to the Devils lie that when we live it to the fullest,that is the end of it.Our souls will never die and will burn in eternal Hell fire if one is unrepentant of his or her sin before death.
I have been through the world persuing life dreams of worldly things and money n all sorts of immorality thinking they will give me the joy i need but i tell you all today that the joy God gives to those who live for His glory is oceans and oceans of pure joy,freedom and satisfaction within oneself and above all eternal life in Christ Jesus.Its just an unbelievable feeling all mankind should experience and God's promise will forever be trustworthy.Amen

Pls read Ephesians 2 :8-10 ,Ephesians 6 :10-14 ,1 Peter 5 :8-10. Please make time for God n pray and it shall be well with you all the days of your life.

imagine a doctor that tells you that you have to buy his cure for a disease that is ravaging everybody and you are willing to buy this drug thinking it will solve all your problem, but shortly after payment you discover that it was the same doctor who had earlier distributed the disease. how would you feel if you can prevent the disease when next the doctor trying to get everyone infected with this disease.

well here is the meaning of my parable,
the doctor = christianity
the disease = guilt (especially over unavoidable sins that are natural part of human nature)
the drug = salvation (from a make-believe hell that they convince you that you deserve to go)
the drug price = surrender of your mind to religious control
disease spread = indoctrinating beliefs from childhood
disease prevention = rational thinking and rejection of religious dogma



prevention is always better than cure

dont let anyone convince that you deserved to go hell

a true creator will not wickedly set up his own creatures this way

free your mind from religion and its poisonous dogma

D Annointed: A big question.
Actually, God don’t condemn anyone to anywhere. Everyone writes their own ticket. Everyone gets on their own train to wherever they end up. God gives people opportunities to make choices. People choose where they want to go by the choices they make in their lives. What is disturbing is that people make the wrong choices knowing when they make the choice, that choice is wrong and then they think God will be understanding and let them slide by and alter their destination. Each of us carves our future in stone that cannot be erased except by repentance and coming to Christ for forgiveness. All the mistakes, all the wrongs, all the decisions made with a sinful heart can be erased when people come to the Cross and understand who Christ was and is and then they must repent and turn away from their sinful life.

Totally Agree !!

Life is short n we shouldnt buy to the Devils lie that when we live it to the fullest,that is the end of it.Our souls will never die and will burn in eternal Hell fire if one is unrepentant of his or her sin before death.

You are taking scripture out of context, The SOUL that sins will die . so says the Lord.


Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Proverbs 8:36 - But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

James 5:20 - Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.


But we agree that at the end of the age all sinners will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone for everlasting destruction.

Matthew 3:12 - Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Luke 3:17 - Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
Matthew 13:42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

You are taking scripture out of context, The SOUL that sins will die . so says the Lord.


Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Proverbs 8:36 - But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

James 5:20 - Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.


But we agree that at the end of the age all sinners will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone for everlasting destruction.

Matthew 3:12 - Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Luke 3:17 - Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
Matthew 13:42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

the soul that sins will die in the sense of being separate from God. The Bible clearly states that death itself will be thrown into the lake of fire after it has given up all the dead that were in it. There will be no more dying. The life which is in hell is no life but death itself. Anything outside God or with Life from God has no life, even if the doctors say he is alive, 1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life: and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. .
Sodom and Gomorrah are left to us as an example, they suffered the veangance of ETERNAL fire, but it's common knowledge that they will still be punished on the Judgement day.
Matthew 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever

The word 'destroy' is used in different senses in the Bible which you may want to consider. It doesn't necessarily translate into ceasing to exist after.
Matthew 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
Matthew 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 27:20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.
Mark 1:24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to[b] destroy us[/b]? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
These are evil spirits that cannot die as it were.

Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Talking about destroying the devil, i hope you know the sense in which.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Some people have destroyed the earth it says.

hell is not a myth. hell is real. but it isnt what people think it is

GOD DOES NOT CONDEMM ANY BODY TO HELL ,PEOPLE CONDEMM THEMSELF TO HELL BUY CORRUPTING THEIR SOUL.GOD DOES NOT CONDEMM ANY BODY TO HELL ,PEOPLE CONDEMM THEMSELF TO HELL BUY CORRUPTING THEIR SOUL.GOD DOES NOT CONDEMM ANY BODY TO HELL ,PEOPLE CONDEMM THEMSELF TO HELL BUY CORRUPTING THEIR SOUL.

Image123:
the soul that sins will die in the sense of being separate from God. The Bible clearly states that death itself will be thrown into the lake of fire after it has given up all the dead that were in it. There will be no more dying. The life which is in hell is no life but death itself. Anything outside God or with Life from God has no life, even if the doctors say he is alive, 1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life: and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. .
Sodom and Gomorrah are left to us as an example, they suffered the veangance of ETERNAL fire, but it's common knowledge that they will still be punished on the Judgement day.
Matthew 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever

The word 'destroy' is used in different senses in the Bible which you may want to consider. It doesn't necessarily translate into ceasing to exist after.
Matthew 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
Matthew 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 27:20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.
Mark 1:24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to[b] destroy us[/b]? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
These are evil spirits that cannot die as it were.

Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Talking about destroying the devil, i hope you know the sense in which.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Some people have destroyed the earth it says.

That there will be severe punishment and ultimate destruction of sinners is not under debate.

But we misrepresent God when we say that his creatures made in his image will be roasted forever and ever without end in the lake of fire. This is false.

As humans we frown upon the torture of people while here on earth , are we more moral than God. Even in our courts, the sentences are for a specified period of time , normally according to the seriousness of the crime with the ultimate punishment of death.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

The old order of things will pass away with the destruction of the wicked and there will be a brand new order , with no presense of wickedness anywhere in God's universe.

Again it says there will be no more death or pain or crying. This means exactly what it says.

Only Satan is capable of such sadistic ability to torture humans in misery and perpetual sorrow.

God will punish with fierce wrath and will destroy the wicked without mercy , but his anger will not last forever.

"I will not accuse forever, nor will I always be angry, for then the spirit of man would grow faint before me--the breath of man that I have created." - Isaiah 57:16

" will you always be angry? Will your wrath continue forever?' This is how you talk, but you do all the evil you can" - Jeremiah 3:5

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

Please let us stop misrepresenting God because we are trying to be tough by screaming about hell and brimstone.

The only thing that draws people to Christ is not the fear of HELL but the LOVE of GOD.

I have met not a few people who have rejected the gospel because of this myth of a non-ending lake of fire, a chamber of torture for billions of creatures.

Finally death is not seperation , this is something we have grown up with , even the catholics and many other false cults believe in this fable.

Death is Death and is of 2 kinds :

1. Physical Death
2. Second Death of the SOUL

If we escape the wrath that is to come by running to our loving saviour for refuge, our Souls will be immortalised and we will dwell with God forever.

The rest of mankind will be punished according to their deeds and ultimately destroyed.

There will be no endless fire. Imagine this , after 100 billion years , they are just starting their punishment, this is scaremongering and no one will be won to Christ with this Lie.

The soul that sinneth will die, will be destroyed and their remembrance will be forever wiped out.

The memory of the righteous will be a blessing, but the name of the wicked will rot.



Job 18:17 The memory of him perishes from the earth; h[b]e has no name in the land[/b].

Job 24:20 The womb forgets them, the worm feasts on them; evil men are no longer remembered but are broken like a tree.

Psalm 9:5 [/b]You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked; you have [b]blotted out their name for ever and ever.

Psalm 9:6 Endless ruin has overtaken the enemy, you have uprooted their cities; even the memory of them has perished.

Ayomivic: GOD DOES NOT CONDEMM ANY BODY TO HELL ,PEOPLE CONDEMM THEMSELF TO HELL BUY CORRUPTING THEIR SOUL.GOD DOES NOT CONDEMM ANY BODY TO HELL ,PEOPLE CONDEMM THEMSELF TO HELL BUY CORRUPTING THEIR SOUL.GOD DOES NOT CONDEMM ANY BODY TO HELL ,PEOPLE CONDEMM THEMSELF TO HELL BUY CORRUPTING THEIR SOUL.

i bet you that if you repeat this statement a thousand times, you will strongly believe it even though it is not true

just like this statement

THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT EXCEPT ALLAH, AND MUHAMMED IS HIS MESSENGER, THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT EXCEPT ALLAH, AND MUHAMMED IS HIS MESSENGER, THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT EXCEPT ALLAH, AND MUHAMMED IS HIS MESSENGER, THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT EXCEPT ALLAH, AND MUHAMMED IS HIS MESSENGER, THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT EXCEPT ALLAH, AND MUHAMMED IS HIS MESSENGER, THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT EXCEPT ALLAH, AND MUHAMMED IS HIS MESSENGER, THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT EXCEPT ALLAH, AND MUHAMMED IS HIS MESSENGER, THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT EXCEPT ALLAH, AND MUHAMMED IS HIS MESSENGER, THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT EXCEPT ALLAH, AND MUHAMMED IS HIS MESSENGER,


this is a classic case of what is defined as brainwashing with religious dogma

It won't be the first time GOD has condemned his imperfect creation to hell and damnation he can't seem to get it right.. especially teh second time around with Islamic zealots who can never get the scarab itch from their desert arrse

I have just one question. Why is it that all these holy books can never ever speak in clear terms? Why must everything be in parables? Why can't it be said exactly what the hell hell is? Now everyone has a definition. I don't think God would go around beating about the bush if his true aim is to guide us. Next thing you hear is the holy spirit has to touch you for you to understand some things. Is it my fault that the holy spirit keeps skipping me and touching others?

kokabiel: It won't be the first time GOD has condemned his imperfect creation to hell and damnation he can't seem to get it right.. especially teh second time around with Islamic zealots who can never get the scarab itch from their desert arrse

It appears that you cannot get it right, just like many others, if you do not read the bible with wisdom and understanding, how can you know it's deep truths.

First of all the word imperfect is a relative one, yes we are not perfect , but we have a will with which we are expected to make the right choices, just like a government will jail and punish law breakers, this is the same way in which the God of Heaven and Earh will judge the world , based on their choices.

"Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?" - Genesis 18:25b

Besides God has not condemned his creation to damnation , he has sent his SON Christ Jesus to reconcile his creation back to him. God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. People choose to mock God and reject his gift to mankind.

"Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"-Ezekiel 18:23

"1 Timothy 2:4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." - Ezekiel 18:23

Ezekiel 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?'

Micah 7:18 Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy.

Therefore for all those lawless ones who oppose God and all that is good, the wife and husband snatchers, perverts, liars, proud, thieves etc , if they refuse to repent, they will face the second death which is destruction ( not torture for zillions of years ) from the presence of the Lord , in the lake of fire.

"They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power" - 2 Thessalonians 1:9

Anyone who rejects Christ , who lives an immoral and perverse life , is not worthy of GOD. It's like a child abusing his parents all day, smashing things up in the house, fighting his father and still expecting a blessing and love. How much more GOD. No sinner can dwell in his presence for he is a consuming fire. And yet God also says no man shall see me and live, why you may ask, because of our sin.

But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live." - Exodus 33:20


The end of all the wicked :

“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." - Revelation 22:14-15

@frosbel

That there will be severe punishment and ultimate destruction of sinners is not under debate.

But we misrepresent God when we say that his creatures made in his image will be roasted forever and ever without end in the lake of fire. This is false.

well maybe Jesus who created all things including hell misrepresented God then. He told us vividly without mincing words that hell is eternal i.e hell fire.

Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
In hell fire, their worms do not die, not to mention they themselves. Regardless of any scripture you may post, these scriptures are clear enough even to an atheist, i don't know why you try to paint God to look nice in your own view. The Revelation of Jesus to John is very clear on this.

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

As humans we frown upon the torture of people while here on earth , are we more moral than God. Even in our courts, the sentences are for a specified period of time , normally according to the seriousness of the crime with the ultimate punishment of death.

You frown on torture, are people going to be tortured and tormented in hell fire? please answer that. My own Bible tells me YES, and it also says that it is a righteous thing for God to do. i'd rather join sides with the Bible than opinions.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

The old order of things will pass away with the destruction of the wicked and there will be a brand new order , with no presense of wickedness anywhere in God's universe.

Again it says there will be no more death or pain or crying. This means exactly what it says.

i believe you should have read up to verse 8 of that passage you sweetly sugar-coated. there is a 'but', a clause.

Rev 21:8 [b]But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Only Satan is capable of such sadistic ability to torture humans in misery and perpetual sorrow.

i believe you are lying on the devil here, why should you do that to the poor guy. Do you have any proofs for this assertion or you are just being sentimental?

God will punish with fierce wrath and will destroy the wicked without mercy , but his anger will not last forever.

"I will not accuse forever, nor will I always be angry, for then the spirit of man would grow faint before me--the breath of man that I have created." - Isaiah 57:16

" will you always be angry? Will your wrath continue forever?' This is how you talk, but you do all the evil you can" - Jeremiah 3:5

It's not hidden knowledge that God's got a soft spot for His people Israel. You are giving God's promises to His people to the wrong set. To the wicked God says few verses after
Isa 57:21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

Please let us stop misrepresenting God because we are trying to be tough by screaming about hell and brimstone.

The only thing that draws people to Christ is not the fear of HELL but the LOVE of GOD.

i'm not screaming about hell, i'm simply stating the teaching of the Bible on hell. Anything can draw someone to Christ BTW, i've seen, read of and heard of countless people that got saved after messages on judgement, the likes of Edwards' sinners in the hands of an angry God, judement songs, and films, and dreams and vision. i've also seen people get saved been told about Jesus the meek and lowly, pure and Holy. The Word of God is complete, we should preach it all as the Spirit of God leads. He is not only Saviour and Friend, He is also Lord, King and Judge, the Lion and the Lamb.

I have met not a few people who have rejected the gospel because of this myth of a non-ending lake of fire, a chamber of torture for billions of creatures.

i've met people who rejected the gospel for no reason.

Finally death is not seperation , this is something we have grown up with , even the catholics and many other false cults believe in this fable.

Death is Death and is of 2 kinds :

1. Physical Death
2. Second Death of the SOUL

If we escape the wrath that is to come by running to our loving saviour for refuge, our Souls will be immortalised and we will dwell with God forever.

The rest of mankind will be punished according to their deeds and ultimately destroyed.

There will be no endless fire. Imagine this , after 100 billion years , they are just starting their punishment, this is scaremongering and no one will be won to Christ with this Lie.

The soul that sinneth will die, will be destroyed and their remembrance will be forever wiped out.

The memory of the righteous will be a blessing, but the name of the wicked will rot.



Job 18:17 The memory of him perishes from the earth; he has no name in the land.

Job 24:20 The womb forgets them, the worm feasts on them; evil men are no longer remembered but are broken like a tree.

Psalm 9:5 You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked; you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.

Psalm 9:6 Endless ruin has overtaken the enemy, you have uprooted their cities; even the memory of them has perished.

suit yourself then, i'm not called into the ministry of explaining deaths.

Image123: @frosbel

well maybe Jesus who created all things including hell misrepresented God then. He told us vividly without mincing words that hell is eternal i.e hell fire.

Indeed he did , but he used the word Gehena which depicted a rubbish dump outside the city where all manner of trash was burnt , including dead animals and sometimes the dead bodies of criminals.

Here , the heap of trash was always smouldering and maggots were in plentiful supply , feeding on the trash.

Remember our Lord always spoke in parables, using real life situations to explain matters regarding the kingdom of God and judgement.

Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
In hell fire, their worms do not die, not to mention they themselves. Regardless of any scripture you may post, these scriptures are clear enough even to an atheist, i don't know why you try to paint God to look nice in your own view. The Revelation of Jesus to John is very clear on this.

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name

.

First of all worms do not feed on bodies that are alive , but bodies that are dead , except in very rare medical cases, but in which only a small portion of the person is affected.

Let me quote some verses to help you .

"All your pomp has been brought down to the grave, along with the noise of your harps; maggots are spread out beneath you and worms cover you." - Isaiah 14:11

This is simply talking about the grave after death, when the body decomposes and maggots consume the flesh away.

Isaiah 66:24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

Here we see in Isaiah a prophesy of the end of the wicked, they will be destroyed in the lake of fire and worms shall cover them. The righteousness shall see it and God's justice will be vindicated.

Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Here we see that the Chaff is burnt up , with fire that cannot be quenched , which means that no one can extinguish this fire but God, it will be allowed to run it's full course till all sinners are totally destroyed.

Psalm 110:6 He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead and crushing the rulers of the whole earth.

You frown on torture, are people going to be tortured and tormented in hell fire? please answer that. My own Bible tells me YES, and it also says that it is a righteous thing for God to do. i'd rather join sides with the Bible than opinions.

And why not ?

Why would any moral being not frown on torture ? When the Jews were burnt in torture chambers, what happened to the perpetrators ? They were give the death sentence. Are we more just than GOD ?

These are your opinions, you are unknowingly following catholic tradition and not the the truth of scripture. You have heard it enough to believe, but this does not make it true.

Please compare scripture with scripture.

i believe you should have read up to verse 8 of that passage you sweetly sugar-coated. there is a 'but', a clause.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Sugar coated

Second death means just that DEATH !!

i believe you are lying on the devil here, why should you do that to the poor guy. Do you have any proofs for this assertion or you are just being sentimental?

hmm, so the devil is now the poor guy and God is the bad guy !!

It's not hidden knowledge that God's got a soft spot for His people Israel. You are giving God's promises to His people to the wrong set. To the wicked God says few verses after
Isa 57:21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.

You are wrong again brother.

There is ONLY ONE Israel , not TWO. We the Israel, the body of Christ , the Church of Christ , and yes you are right, God has a soft spot for us.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." - Galatians 3:28

"by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two ( Jew and Gentile ) , thus making peace" - Ephesians 2:15

i'm not screaming about hell,

Please don't my brother

i'm simply stating the teaching of the Bible on hell. Anything can draw someone to Christ BTW, i've seen, read of and heard of countless people that got saved after messages on judgement, the likes of Edwards' sinners in the hands of an angry God,

One thing I never used to do when I got saved was to challenge the traditional doctrines of the church , many I swallowed hook line and sinker, even though they had no scriptural basis and in many cases were sourced from the pagan Roman catholic church.

Do you know that 2 people committed suicide after Edward's so called 'love' sermon. God has called us to tell sinners to flee from the wrath to come , but he never asked us to terrorise people into believing the gospel, it is not by force.

God loves all of mankind, let us not misrepresent his character , in fact he is not willing that any should perish in the lake of fire, but that all should come to repentance and be saved.

If they refuse and continue in rebellion, the wrath of God will fall upon on them suddenly and without warning, they will be consumed by the fire of God.

judement songs, and films, and dreams and vision. i've also seen people get saved been told about Jesus the meek and lowly, pure and Holy. The Word of God is complete, we should preach it all as the Spirit of God leads. He is not only Saviour and Friend, He is also Lord, King and Judge, the Lion and the Lamb.

I will rather stick to scripture as the Spirit reveals, Jesus did it, Paul did it and so will I.

i've met people who rejected the gospel for no reason.

indeed, there will always be the followers of SATAN and those who walk after their lusts.

suit yourself then, i'm not called into the ministry of explaining deaths.

Absolutely, and neither am I , but I must challenge any misrepresentation of God's character and convey to the lost that he Loves them and does not want anyone to perish.

God bless you.

@ image 123
its so funny, if not tragic how religious dogma can twist one's sense of morality to see absolutely nothing wrong with torturing a living being that you could easily destroy and torture him him in endless excruciating agony in the worst conceivable manner for trillions and trillions of years. arrgggghh! such a god is wicked and so unworthy of any genuine worship. i will rather go to hell telling him this truth to his wicked face, than to be coerced into his heaven where non-genuine worship are offered to him. infact, heaven with such a god will never be a happy place whenever you remember that some precious souls somewhere probably your family members are still alive somewhere being tortured by this wicked being. why did such a god allow man to be born as a sinner by default only to spend eternity in hell if he does not "become bornagain". o su mi o

@ frosbel
although i am an atheist, i must say a big thank you for opening my eyes to some realities i have never seen before about the bible. its so funny how two people can read the same thing and come up with totally different views. if only religious people can honestly shed their pre-conceived indoctrination from their church and read the bible for what it says at face value.

@frosbel

Indeed he did , but he used the word Gehena which depicted a rubbish dump outside the city where all manner of trash was burnt , including dead animals and sometimes the dead bodies of criminals.

Here , the heap of trash was always smouldering and maggots were in plentiful supply , feeding on the trash.

Remember our Lord always spoke in parables, using real life situations to explain matters regarding the kingdom of God and judgement.

Indeed, a refresher on Gehenna, thank you, i knew and didn't mention it, about Gehenna. Gehenna is a picture/example of hell fire. Hell fire is bigger and worse than Gehenna. you are making it look like hell is milder than the Gehenna place.

First of all worms do not feed on bodies that are alive , but bodies that are dead.

Let me quote some verses to help you .

"All your pomp has been brought down to the grave, along with the noise of your harps; maggots are spread out beneath you and worms cover you." - Isaiah 14:11

Are you serious at all? Worms do not feed on bodies that are alive? Worms are parasites my friend, do we really need a touch on biology? If you have kids, don't bother de-worming them okay? Since they won't feed until the person is dead. And you dare quote some verses to support this ignorance? frosbel, i like you ooo, take time.

Isaiah 66:24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

Here we see in Isaiah a prophesy of the end of the wicked, they will be destroyed in the lake of fire and worms shall cover them. The righteousness shall see it and God's justice will be vindicated.

This chapter is a reference to the millenial reign.

Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

This is still inside time, not eternity, that's why the mention of sabbaths and new moon.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
These men were/are those blasphemers whom the beast deceived to fight against God. It's not a reference to the final judgement of Revelation 20.

Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Here we see that the Chaff is burnt up , with fire that cannot be quenched , which means that no one can extinguish this fire but God, it will be allowed to run it's full course till all sinners are totally destroyed.

What does this have to do with what we are discussing again? When will all sinners be totally destroyed? Can you give us this timeframe? One hour, one week, 5months, 7years, 100 years, what do you think or know about this merciful time for destruction?

And why not ?

Why would any moral being not frown on torture ? When the Jews were burnt in torture chambers, what happened to the perpetrators ? They were give the death sentence. Are we more just than GOD ?

These are your opinions, you are unknowingly following catholic tradition and not the the truth of scripture. You have heard it enough to believe, but this does not make it true.

Please compare scripture with scripture.

You are being sentimental, i'm surprised cyrexx is letting you go on this. are people going to be tortured and tormented in hell fire? please answer that.

Sugar coated

Second death means just that DEATH !!

you are dribbling here o. You quoted that God will wipe away tears and there will be no more death or pain or crying. And used that to support your idea that there is no eternal punishment for sinners. But i showed you that verse 8 of that passage tells us that such promise is not for the sinners. There is eternal punishment for the sinners according to the bible.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
You do know the implications of a 'but' right? It introduces something that is true in spite of either being or seeming contrary to what has just been said. While there is no more sorrow or pain or crying for some, the others will have their part in the lake of fire, simples.

hmm, so the devil is now the poor guy and God is the bad guy !!

Are you also asserting that, or asking me?

You are wrong again brother.

There is ONLY ONE Israel , not 2. We the Israel, the body of Christ , the Church of Christ , and yes you are right, God has a soft spot for us.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." - Galatians 3:28

"by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two ( Jew and Gentile ) , thus making peace" - Ephesians 2:15

Are you on purpose trying to go the opposite of every sentence i've written? How.

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the Scripture saith of Elijah? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Are you truly or willingly ignorant of scriptures such as these?

Please don't my brother

i wouldn't man, don't need to. Most times i preach the gospel, it's about the love and Lamb of God. But i wouldn't mince words to instruct on the doctrines in the Bible on judgement and on hell fire if need be.

One thing I never used to do when I got saved was to challenge the traditional doctrines of the church , many I swallowed hook line and sinker, even though they had no scriptural basis and in many cases were sourced from the pagan Roman catholic church.

Do you know that 2 people committed suicide after Edward's so called 'love' sermon. God has called us to tell sinners to flee from the wrath to come , but he never asked us to terrorise people into believing the gospel, it is not by force.

well well, your 'mistakes' is not everyones'. Talking about Edwards, i wasn't particularly referring to him but to the LIKES, but since you have some stats on him, pray, how many were said to have repented after his sermon?

indeed, there will always be the followers of SATAN and those who walk after their lusts.

indeed, there will be those who reject the gospel whether you preach on hell or no. Not everybody gets saved under the prosperity gospel and its likes.

God help and bless you.

Image123: @frosbel

Indeed, a refresher on Gehenna, thank you

My pleasure

i knew and didn't mention it, about Gehenna. Gehenna is a picture/example of hell fire. Hell fire is bigger and worse than Gehenna. you are making it look like hell is milder than the Gehenna place.

No, Gehenna is symbolic of a trash dump where refuse and waste material is burnt up, the hearers of this story would have appreciated what Christ meant , you seem to be reading other meanings.

Are you serious at all? Worms do not feed on bodies that are alive? Worms are parasites my friend, do we really need a touch on biology? If you have kids, don't bother de-worming them okay? Since they won't feed until the person is dead. And you dare quote some verses to support this ignorance? frosbel, i like you ooo, take time.

The bible definition of worms will be maggots and the likes. You shock me, yes worms do parasite on people, I once had guinea worm but it was only at a very minute and localised area of my hand. After some treatment it was flushed out.

Now, the actual phrase used is 'covered with worms ' it does not say you will have one worm or two creeping around, it says totally inundated with the disgusting creatures.

Again this depicts rotten bodies feasted on by worms aka maggots.

This chapter is a reference to the millenial reign.

Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

This is still inside time, not eternity, that's why the mention of sabbaths and new moon.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
These men were/are those blasphemers whom the beast deceived to fight against God. It's not a reference to the final judgement of Revelation 20.

Wrong !!

In Isaiah , it also adds this phrase , @for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.'

By the way the same devil you say will exist forever , is the same devil that God promised to destroy and totally wipe out.

‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says:

“‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings[c] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.
18 By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.
19 All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more. ’”



This is the same fate that the wicked will share, they will be destroyed, please spend some time to investigate as I have done, stop repeating what your pastor told you or what you have understood from tradition.

What does this have to do with what we are discussing again? When will all sinners be totally destroyed? Can you give us this timeframe? One hour, one week, 5months, 7years, 100 years, what do you think or know about this merciful time for destruction?

Yes all sinners and SATAN will be destroyed before the creation of a new heaven and new earth wherein dwells righteousness and where no more death and pain will exist.

Evil cannot cooexist with good in God's new world.


"But all sinners will be destroyed; the future of the wicked will be cut off." - Psalm 37:38

Psalm 37:20 But the wicked will perish: The LORD's enemies will be like the beauty of the fields, they will vanish--vanish like smoke

Then you will trample down the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things," says the LORD Almighty - Malachi 4:3

You are being sentimental, i'm surprised cyrexx is letting you go on this. are people going to be tortured and tormented in hell fire? please answer that.

Sentimental Cyrexx

Mister, people will not be tortured forever and ever, that is the GOD you know from your imagination and his portrayal through the middle ages as a God who wants to destroy all mankind for the sake of it.

God is LOVE and yet he is also JUST . Since sinners do not want to dwell with him they will perish without him.

If you keep repeating this everlasting torture myth, you are :

1. Misrepresenting the character of GOD , making SATAN look more mild in comparison

2. Repeating the lies perpetuated by the catholic church

3. Pushing people away from the gospel


This is not about sentimentalism but TRUTH.

you are dribbling here o. You quoted that God will wipe away tears and there will be no more death or pain or crying. And used that to support your idea that there is no eternal punishment for sinners. But i showed you that verse 8 of that passage tells us that such promise is not for the sinners. There is eternal punishment for the sinners according to the bible.

If you read the sequence of events from your favourite , fire and brimstone passage in revelations , this is what happens :

1. Beast and false prophet cast into the lake of fire
2. Satan and demons cast into the lake of fire
3. Great white throne judgement
4. Cast the wicked into the lake of fire
5. A new heaven and a new earth appear out of the ruins of the former
6. No more crying , death or pain.

After the wicked are destroyed together with the old earth and heaven, a new heaven and earth is created where the righteous will inherit , hence why you have verses such as :


"By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men - 2 Peter 3:7

and then

Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth - Matthew 5:5

Psalm 37:9 For evil men will be cut off, but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land.

Psalm 37:11 But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy great peace



Again, there is no such thing as eternal torture for zillions of years , God is not a sadist, stop repeating this fable learnt from the apostate church which peddles false doctrine.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Two things I want to pick out from the verses above, it says second death not second life in hell. God said all over the bible that the soul that sins shall die, but Satan countered this statement to Eve and said 'you will not surely die ', now you are also agreeing with the devil by saying that God will give some sort of life to the wicked to be tortured forever.

In him we move and have our being, so without his breath we are dead , but to home in on this point again, you say that God will still give life to these wicked ones for all eternity just so that they can suffer, this is not scriptural, it is plain and false tradition !!

Second death = death forever and as Matthew mentioned this is an everlasting punishment because it is irreversible and forever.

You do know the implications of a 'but' right? It introduces something that is true in spite of either being or seeming contrary to what has just been said. While there is no more sorrow or pain or crying for some, the others will have their part in the lake of fire, simples.

No , in our Father's new world, evil and good will not coexist, anywhere evil is , it will be wiped out forever and ever.

Are you on purpose trying to go the opposite of every sentence i've written? How.

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the Scripture saith of Elijah? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Are you truly or willingly ignorant of scriptures such as these?

Indeed God has not cast his people forever, indeed the Jews and Gentiles for ages gone by to present have joined with the gentiles to form the Israel of GOD which is not according to the flesh or race but according to the Spirit.

There is nothing special about a people who still reject the gospel today and who murder thousands in the process.

The specials are the Jews and Gentiles who make up the church.

"It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned."In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring." - Romans 9:6 - 8

indeed, there will be those who reject the gospel whether you preach on hell or no. Not everybody gets saved under the prosperity gospel and its likes.

Good !!

i wouldn't man, don't need to. Most times i preach the gospel, it's about the love and Lamb of God. But i wouldn't mince words to instruct on the doctrines in the Bible on judgement and on hell fire if need be.

Good and so did Paul, actually Paul never mentioned Hell, he instead mentioned punishment and judgement , as he did to Felix.

"As Paul discoursed on righteousness, self-control and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and said, "That's enough for now! You may leave. When I find it convenient, I will send for you." - Acts 24:25

If you read this, Paul never mentioned eternal torture and neither did any of the apostles in the bible.

Jude mentioned only eternal fire and Peter the same, but these fires they qualified with the destruction of the wicked not their torture.

well well, your 'mistakes' is not everyones'. Talking about Edwards, i wasn't particularly referring to him but to the LIKES, but since you have some stats on him, pray, how many were said to have repented after his sermon?

Mistakes

You call preaching a sermon of fear and which caused the death of two people by suicide and initiated depression in countless others the gospel

What is the gospel, what did Paul preach , my friend re-read your bible you are relying on Schofield , John Darby, Jack Van Impe and other false prophets who twist the bible to fit into their agenda.

Besides Edwards was a Calvanist , the chaps that preach that God has reserved by predestination only a few for salvation and the rest for eternal fire, wow !!

And of course we all know Calvin killed and tortured one of this best friends to death by burning at the stake with green wood, can you imagine, a man of God, recommending green wood to maximise the pain and torture.

Well if you believe in eternal torture you are in good company

As for me, I will fight the good fight of faith and represent God exactly as the scripture depicts !!

thank you.

i can't shout, not to mention scream.

Image123: i can't shout, not to mention scream.

You cannot argue with scripture.

Go and buy a new bible, a plain one, stop reading that Schofield bible, it is full of heresy !!

frosbel:

You cannot argue with scripture.

Go and buy a new bible, a plain one, stop reading that Schofield bible, it is full of heresy !!

rather, i can't argue with you

Image123:
rather, i can't argue with you

I think you should rephrase it my saying , you cannot argue with scripture.

I keep a very open mind on any subject , but if you cannot prove to me beyond reasonable doubt , with the bible ,that your position is valid, I cannot but disagree with you , albeit amicably.

Like you I believed in the tithe and Hell doctrine until late last year when I started to read scripture and discover it's precious truths through God's wisdom.

Where Did "Eternal Burning Hell" Come From?

This doctrine came right out of paganism and pagan religions. You can find it in Egyptian literature, and you will read it in Greek and Roman literature. "Eternal Hell" is based on a doctrinal error of the "immortal soul" which came from the Occult and brought into Christianity through the Catholic Church, and it was adopted into the Protestant movement from Popery. Read carefully the next quote from history; "Let it be registered as the genuine genealogy, that Pagan Plato was its father, and the profligate Pope Leo its fosterfather. Born and bred by the Pagan philosophy, the protégé of Popery, this notion of the soul's immortality has become a pet dogma of popular Protestantism, which with a strange forgetfulness of its low lineage, openly declares it to be the honorable offspring of a true orthodoxy!" Mr. Panton Ham, of Bristol England. "You Greeks believe that the soul is created, and yet is made immortal by God, according to the doctrine of Plato." Josephus, Dissertation on Hades. Listen to what Plato has to say; "...Souls are God. They go two ways after death; the wicked to the place of torment, the pure and innocent to the August assembly of the gods." Plato. This widely believed doctrine, of the immortal soul and eternal hell, came straight from PAGANISM! The Jews did not believe this false teaching until their captivity. "It is indeed known that the immortality of the soul was not known to the Jews, but by commerce which they had with the Assyrians during the time of their captivity." Herodotus, p.111. The Jews lost their doctrinal purity through an unlawful relationship with the heathens!



[/b]Thoughts From History!

[b]Justin Martyr said, "lf you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this truth, and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say that there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians." (A.D. 165).

William Tyndale wrote, "In putting departed souls in heaven, hell and purgatory, you destroy the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul prove the resurrection."

Dear friend, how can you believe that God is love and believe, at the same time, that He bums people throughout eternity? To believe this, friend, is to say that Adolf Hitler is more merciful than God is! Hitler tortured his victims, but he finally put them out of their misery, and you're saying, God is not as merciful.

The truth is that God does burn the wicked, including Satan and his angels, but it only lasts until they are burned up into ASHES.

frosbel:

I think you should rephrase it my saying , you cannot argue with scripture.

I keep a very open mind on any subject , but if you cannot prove to me beyond reasonable doubt , with the bible ,that your position is valid, I cannot but disagree with you , albeit amicably.

Like you I believed in the tithe and Hell doctrine until late last year when I started to read scripture and discover it's precious truths through God's wisdom.

every man would proclaim his own goodness mr. Don't be so bigot as to think anyone not seeing from your perspective is close minded. i can't argue with you because i don't love back and forth arguments, neither am i eager to have the last say.

Image123:
every man would proclaim his own goodness mr. Don't be so bigot as to think anyone not seeing from your perspective is close minded. i can't argue with you because i don't love back and forth arguments, neither am i eager to have the last say.

I am now a bigot because I declare the total word of GOD.

As mentioned earlier we should divide the word of GOD properly , referring to scripture and interpretations by the Holy Spirit not men.

Besides no one said you were close minded, if that is how you feel I can only offer you my apology.

Blessings.