dalaman:

I had no God in mind. Just tell me what a God is already.

u had no God in mind, yet u asked a question about God?

dalaman:

This is the main bone of contention so it will leave all the foolery and derailment and concentrate on it.

Your foolery, your problem.

dalaman: "(evangelical) atheism is now certainly a religion (a daft religion but no less a religion) as has been confirmed in various ways --- including intellectually and legally."

This is a general statement. I am a Nigerian living in Nigeria and as such I will like you to tell me how atheism has certainly been recognized as a religion in Nigeria and which legal law in Nigeria confirms it as you have stated. Remember your general statements says that atheism as been confirmed as a religion with legal backing. For some one like me living in Nigeria which authority confirms atheism as a religion and where is the legal documents that confirms it to be a religion?

If a Mongolian living in Mongolia wants to determine whether atheism has been recognised as a religion in Mongolia, that is the person's problem.

Anyone who knows anything about this (Religion) forum knows there have been extensive debates on the status of atheism as a religion and the context in which the legal recognition of atheism as a religion has been debated here.

For those who are unaware or ignorant wilfully here are examples: https://www.nairaland.com/966459/arming-faithful-against-logic

https://www.nairaland.com/546562/atheism-religion/9#9232422

https://www.nairaland.com/765094/heard-there-different-kinds-atheism/2#msg9227593

toba.:
u had no God in mind, yet u asked a question about God?

Just tell me what a God is.

dalaman:

Just tell me what a God is.

just tell me the God u want to know about

Enigma:

Your foolery, your problem.

Nope, your foolery, your problem.

If a Mongolian living in Mongolia wants to determine whether atheism has been recognised as a religion in Mongolia, that is the person's problem.

Doesn't this show how ridiculous your general statement is? Your words "(evangelical) atheism is now certainly a religion (a daft religion but no less a religion) as has been confirmed in various ways --- including intellectually and legally."

If evangelical atheism is certainly a religion with legal backings then there shouldn't be a problem about it being recognized in Mongolia or any where for that matter.

Anyone who knows anything about this (Religion) forum knows there have been extensive debates on the status of atheism as a religion and the context in which the legal recognition of atheism as a religion has been debated here.

For those who are unaware or ignorant wilfully here are examples: https://www.nairaland.com/966459/arming-faithful-against-logic

https://www.nairaland.com/546562/atheism-religion/9#9232422

https://www.nairaland.com/765094/heard-there-different-kinds-atheism/2#msg9227593

Where is the consensus that atheism is a religion here? What am I to do with mere opinions and counter opinions? I just thought you could provide legal backings to your own general claims. If atheism is certianly a religion with legal backings, where is the Nigerian legal confirmation that makes atheism a religion? I am a Nigerian living in Nigeria and we are on a Nigerian forum discussing about atheism, so where is the Nigerian legal backing that says that atheism is a religion?

dalaman:

Nope, your foolery, your problem.

Nope, your foolery, your problem.

dalaman: Doesn't this show how ridiculous your general statement is? Your words "(evangelical) atheism is now certainly a religion (a daft religion but no less a religion) as has been confirmed in various ways --- including intellectually and legally."

If you think my statement is ridiculous, that is your choice. I stand by my statement as made and in the context in which it was made.

dalaman: If evangelical atheism is certainly a religion with legal backings then there shouldn't be a problem about it being recognized in Mongolia or any where for that matter.

Oh, the legal backing was provided on the threads provided to you and I am not about to start rehashing that.

dalaman: Where is the consensus that atheism is a religion here? What am I to do with mere opinions and counter opinions?

Whatever you like, you can do with the various opinions; that is your own lookout. I don't know who claims any "consensus"; my claim remains that "evangelical atheism is now certainly a religion as has been confirmed in various ways --- including intellectually and legally. If you dispute that, you are welcome to your disputation.

dalaman: I just thought you could provide legal backings to your own general claims. If atheism is certianly a religion with legal backings, where is the Nigerian legal confirmation that makes atheism a religion? I am a Nigerian living in Nigeria and we are on a Nigerian forum discussing about atheism, so where is the Nigerian legal backing that says that atheism is a religion?

My statement remains accurate --- as made. I am also waiting for you to provide Nigerian legal confirmation that Wicca etc etc etc etc is a religion.

Enigma:

Nope, your foolery, your problem.

Your foolery your problem.

If you think my statement is ridiculous, that is your choice. I stand by my statement as made and in the context in which it was made.

It was a general statement, there was no context to it.

Oh, the legal backing was provided on the threads provided to you and I am not about to start rehashing that.

But we are not on those threads, and your statement wasn't made on those threads, it was made as a general statement here on this thread. Your foolery your problem. By the way, your statement is as idiotic as giving a general statement that g[i]a[/i]y marriage is certainly a recognized marriage with legal backing.

Whatever you like, you can do with the various opinions; that is your own lookout. I don't know who claims any "consensus"; my claim remains that "evangelical atheism is now certainly a religion as has been confirmed in various ways --- including intellectually and legally. If you dispute that, you are welcome to your disputation.

Atheism has been confirmed in Nigeria as a religion on whose authority? Where is the legal backing for such?

My statement remains accurate --- as made. I am also waiting for you to provide Nigerian legal confirmation that Wicca etc etc etc etc is a religion.

Your general statement remains very inaccurate.

Nigeria recognizes wicca etc, etc as a religion as long as it satisfies the general definition of religion.

From the Nigerian constitution it says that

38. (1) Every person shall be entitled to freedom of thought, conscience and religion.

Which part of the Nigerian constitution recognizes atheism(disbelief in God(s)) as a religion?

dalaman: It was a general statement, there was no context to it.

It was a statement on a specific thread, directed to discussants on the specific thread, with the knowledge that those discussants have the background of previous discussions on the debates on the legal recognition of evangelical atheism as a religion. If any third party or busybody honestly wants clarification that is another matter. In any event, I have already provided the clarification extensively.

dalaman: But we are not on those threads, and your statement wasn't made on those threads, it was made as a general statement here on this thread.

Yep, and those to whom it was addressed on this thread understood the statement in accordance with how it was made and the preceding very very very recent background.

Your foolery your problem

Like your foolery that pluto has been confirmed in Nigeria to be or not to be a planet, cool.

By the way, your statement is as idiotic as giving a general statement that g[i]a[/i]y marriage is certainly a recognized marriage with legal backing.

Ah, look who wants to talk of idiocy; someone who makes the idiotic statement that mere regurgitation is proof? Don't make me laugh!

Atheism has been confirmed in Nigeria as a religion on whose authority? Where is the legal backing for such?

Wicca, Scientology, Santeria etc etc etc ad infinitum have been confirmed in Nigeria as religions on whose authority? Where is the legal backing for such? (And see further below)

Your general statement remain very inaccurate.

You can shout it till kingdom come; the statement remains accurate.

dalaman: Nigeria recognizes wicca etc, etc as a religion

From the Nigerian constitution it says that

38. (1) Every person shall be entitled to freedom of thought, conscience and religion.

So what is the definition of "religion"? Where does it say that that definition (a) necessarily includes Wicca etc or (b) necessarily excludes evangelical atheism?

dalaman: Which part of the Nigerian constitution recognizes atheism(disbelief in God(s)) as a religion?

Which part of the Nigerian Constitution recognises Wicca, Scientology, Santeria etc etc etc ad infinitum as a religion?

Enigma:

It was a statement on a specific thread, directed to discussants on the specific thread, with the knowledge that those discussants have the background of previous discussions on the debates on the legal recognition of evangelical atheism as a religion. If any third party or busybody honestly wants clarification that is another matter. In any event, I have already provided the clarification extensively.




Yep, and those to whom it was addressed on this thread understood the statement in accordance with how it was made and the preceding very very very recent background.




Like your foolery that pluto has been confirmed in Nigeria to be or not to be a planet, cool.




Ah, look who wants to talk of idiocy; someone who makes the idiotic statement that mere regurgitation is proof? Don't make me laugh!




Wicca, Scientology, Santeria etc etc etc ad infinitum have been confirmed in Nigeria as religions on whose authority? Where is the legal backing for such? (And see further below)




You can shout it till kingdom come; the statement remains accurate.




So what is the definition of "religion"? Where does it say that that definition (a) necessarily includes Wicca etc or (b) necessarily excludes evangelical atheism?




Which part of the Nigerian Constitution recognises Wicca, Scientology, Santeria etc etc etc ad infinitum as a religion?

Since you were referring to a particular thread and to a particular people I will let it be here. I went through one of such threads and failed to see how, where and when it has been established that atheism is certainly a religion with legal backing as you alleged, you were the only one making the claim and all the others did not agree with your interpretation and opnions. In one of such thread the plaintiff even failed to establish that atheism indeed was a religion as the Judgement says. You should have said that in your opinion atheism is certainly a religion with legal backing. There was no consensus reached on any of the threads you linked that says atheism is certainly a religion with intellectual and legal backings. You can keep repeating yourself from now till forever but everything expressed on the links you posted remains your own personal opinion and interpretation and as such your opinion remains yours and is of no value to me.

dalaman: . . . . In one of such thread the plaintiff even failed to establish that atheism indeed was a religion as the Judgement says. . . .

That is completely wrong and nonsensical! The plaintiff WAS definitely successful in proving that his atheism was a religion; the courts expressly agreed with him that atheism IS a religion!

The Court of Appeal said that the lower court erred in not treating atheism as a religion and said that atheism IS indeed a religion as follows:

The problem with the district court’s analysis is that the court failed to recognize that Kaufman was trying to start a “religious” group, in the sense we discussed earlier. Atheism is Kaufman’s religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being. . . .

LOOL

Enigma, you are a clown!!

You asserted atheism as a legal backing as religion in Nigeria. When asked for the specific precedent, you FAILED to provide that and further support your argument, but ran off to make a false comparism with scientific theories.

Also you throw too many terms that don't seem to mean the same and treat em the same: atheism and evangelical atheism.

Kay 17: LOOL

Enigma, you are a clown!!

Thanks. I have many things I could call you but I will desist on this occasion.

Kay 17: You asserted atheism as a legal backing as religion in Nigeria.

When asked for the specific precedent, you FAILED to provide that and further support your argument, but ran off to make a false comparism with scientific theories.

Up until now I had not taken you to be a member of the band of LIARS but the above quote is a shameful LIE on your part. Huge shame on you. Point to where I "asserted atheism as a legal backing as religion in Nigeria." (sic)

Kay 17: Also you throw too many terms that don't seem to mean the same and treat em the same: atheism and evangelical atheism.

You know quite well the distinction that I have always drawn between atheism as mere lack of belief in God as with dogs, goats, monkeys etc and active disbelief PLUS evangelism and evangelisation of atheism. What I have always called a religion is evangelical atheism. The courts might have not used the word "evangelical" but it is clear that what they were dealing with was indeed evangelical atheism.

Enigma:

Thanks. I have many things I could call you but I will desist on this occasion.



Up until now I had not taken you to be a member of the band of LIARS but the above quote is a shameful LIE on your part. Huge shame on you. Point to where I "asserted atheism as a legal backing as religion in Nigeria." (sic)

You know quite well the distinction that I have always drawn between atheism as mere lack of belief in God as with dogs, goats, monkeys etc and active disbelief PLUS evangelism and evangelisation of atheism. What I have always called a religion is evangelical atheism. The courts might have not used the word "evangelical" but it is clear that what they were dealing with was indeed evangelical atheism.

How can atheism be evangelical?


e·van·gel·ism (-vnj-lzm)
n.
1. Zealous preaching and dissemination of the gospel, as through missionary work.
2. Militant zeal for a cause


If you take definition number 2, then UNICEF campaigning is a religion

You would also classify hiphop as a religion...

Enigma:
You know quite well the distinction that I have always drawn between atheism as mere lack of belief in God as with dogs, goats, monkeys etc )

Did you speak to dogs, goats and monkeys to ascertain that they don't believe in god? What about Dolphins?

maybe the holy ghost of jesus showed you a vision and you found out about the atheism of every specie of animal.

Toba has little or no idea of what his god is. He worships a mystery and yet expects everyone else to bow to this mysterious god.

Enigma:

Thanks. I have many things I could call you but I will desist on this occasion.

Up until now I had not taken you to be a member of the band of LIARS but the above quote is a shameful LIE on your part. Huge shame on you. Point to where I "asserted atheism as a legal backing as religion in Nigeria." (sic)


You know quite well the distinction that I have always drawn between atheism as mere lack of belief in God as with dogs, goats, monkeys etc and active disbelief PLUS evangelism and evangelisation of atheism. What I have always called a religion is evangelical atheism. The courts might have not used the word "evangelical" but it is clear that what they were dealing with was indeed evangelical atheism.

I am sorry if you feel insulted, I meant it in a friendly manner.

I will find the quote.

Yes, I agree with that definition of atheism and its association with animals. The absence of belief in a supernatural being/God, a BLANK slate, a position of NEUTRALITY, a starting point. Therefore for an atheist, the idea of God MUST be introduced rather than an intuitive idea.

With this in mind, would you tag this a religion??

On evangelical atheism, there is no error in saying these are ppl that despise and hate religions with a passion added with propagation of such hatred. Would that be a religion?? By virtue of hatred, or publicity??

Kay 17: I am sorry if you feel insulted, I meant it in a friendly manner.

Cheers Kay, understood; you know we be cool like that. My own apologies too.

Kay 17: I will find the quote.

OK

Kay 17: Yes, I agree with that definition of atheism and its association with animals. The absence of belief in a supernatural being/God, a BLANK slate, a position of NEUTRALITY, a starting point. Therefore for an atheist, the idea of God MUST be introduced rather than an intuitive idea.

You know if you say that your atheism is the same as with dogs, goats, monkeys etc, I would be very reluctant to deny you that grandiose privilege ---- much as I personally draw a distinction between mere absence of belief and active disbelief.

Kay 17: With this in mind, would you tag this a religion??

As I have even restated on this thread, what I tag as a religion is evangelical atheism.

Kay 17: On evangelical atheism, there is no error in saying these are ppl that despise and hate religions with a passion added with propagation of such hatred. Would that be a religion?? By virtue of hatred, or publicity??

It is not just the hatred of traditional religions but several things including: deliberate spreading and evangelisation of atheism; asking for same religious rights for atheism as other religions; asking courts to declare atheism a religion; stating expressly that evangelical atheism is a religion on websites; starting religious groups including university chaplaincies (pace Harvard) for atheists; asking for atheist chaplaincies in the US military etc etc etc etc etc

^^
(Y)

Yeah I don't like to be compared with animanls, but we are all atheists!

Ok, that is cleared, atheism is not the religion.

As to evangelical atheism: hatred, publicity and religious rights make a religion?

What is "religious" right??

Kay 17: ^^
(Y)

Yeah I don't like to be compared with animanls, but we are all atheists!

Well, it is a natural logical consequence of saying that atheism is merely a lack of belief.

Kay 17: Ok, that is cleared, atheism is not the religion.

I wouldn't call the atheism of dogs, cows and monkeys or even of the very passive human atheists who simply do not think about God or care about existential issues in that vein a religion.

As I have restated, what I call a religion is evangelical atheism, you know the kind, the kind that says (as one chap said recently) that it is competing with Christianity and other religions in "the world of ideas".

Kay 17: As to evangelical atheism: hatred, publicity and religious rights make a religion?

Those and more including things I have listed on this thread and on other threads that you are aware of.

Kay 17: What is "religious" right??

The kind of rights that Kaufman the atheist was claiming when he persuaded the courts that atheism is a religion ---- as we discussed extensively recently and even previously.

We having little issues with determining what religion really is, so wildly using an adjective (religious) without determining religion will lead to confusion.

So we can't talk about religious rights, neither can it be a defining factor in determining religion.

1. Publicity

2. Hatred

3.

To avoid going round in circles, here is a piece I have lionked to in the past on what is a religion and how (evangelical) atheism meets the requirements.

https://www.nairaland.com/546562/atheism-religion/11#9255256

1. Publicity

2. Hatred

3. Darwinism.

4. Having a metaphysical position

This what I could gather

Perhaps you were not looking where I pointed otherwise you would have seen the framework used (summarised below) and the case made.

The framework set forth by Ninian Smart, commonly known as the Seven Dimensions of Religion, is widely accepted by anthropologists and researchers of religion as broadly covering the various aspects of religion, without focusing on things unique to specific religions.

Yea, I saw thay argument but he locked the theory of natural selection with atheism.