ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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TRINITARIANS, How Do You Honestly Interpret This Verse In The Bible? / For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians / Trinitarians - Is there One Throne In Heaven Or Three ? (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Nobody: 6:34pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
Interesting thread! Watching from the sidelines  wanna learn more from y'all |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:38pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
frosbel: Aren't you stretching the truth here? Can you show me where I made the statement you are accusing me of making? |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Nobody: 6:41pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
Goshen360: Let us start with clarifying how many spirits there are according to Trinitarians : 1. God Almighty who is Spirit 2. Jesus who is Spirit 3. Holy Spirit But we also know our Lord is called the Son of Man and the last Adam, so he is a MAN. Therefore we have 4 distinct persons  Besides this erroneous logic flies in the face of the following bible verse, where there is only one Spirit. So is this Spirit, Christ , God or the Holy Spirit Ephesians 4:4-5 New International Version (NIV) 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; The Lord is the Spirit can be tallied with "So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.- 1 Corinthians 15:45". So our Lord Jesus sent to us the Spirit who gives us eternal life. But we know it is that God through his Spirit who gives us eternal life through his SON, no ? "And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son." - 1 John 5:11 This life in his Son is through the Spirit which we receive if we have faith in the Son of GOD. To suggest that the Lord is the Spirit is separate from the Holy Spirit and is also separate from God the Spirit is only fit for a comedy and makes Christians the butt of jokes. |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Nobody: 6:42pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU: Ola you have stated not a few times that I am LOST and need to retrace my steps back to Christ. LOST means if I die today it's HELL , no ? Abeg leave me jare. |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:50pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
frosbel: That you are lost has nothing to do with your stance on the trinity. One can be saved without understanding the concept of the trinity just as I can use the internet without understanding the intricacies of it. Your case is the denial of the deity of Christ which is a fundamental doctrine of the Bible. |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:51pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
The True God And Eternal Life |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Nobody: 6:52pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU: Jesus is divine without question , but he is not Yahweh. |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Nobody: 6:56pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
[quote author=OLAADEGBU][/quote] Honestly if you cannot bring your original thought and opinions to bear on this discussion , we might as well not even bother. Stop being a lazy student brother, remember that exhortation from Paul : "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15 Henry Morris, Ph.D of the web site http://www.icr.org where you are getting 80% of your articles from is not the standard for truth, the Bible is. His Ph.d means zilch when it comes to the word of GOD. |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:58pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
frosbel: Do you even believe in the existence of hell? |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Goshen360(m): 6:58pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
@ Frosbel, Can you address the THREE translations the EXPLICITLY said JESUS is THE TRUE GOD......Quoting from many translation most times will clear the air on some difficult scriptures: Goshen360: AND THIS, Goshen360: It is the necessary and important for ALL bible teachers to consider from many translation in order to come to a conclusion on a subject matter. You (Frosbel) are ONLY sticking to one translation, the NIV or whatever the translation you love to use. I have left KJV out of this so that we can come to a solid conclusion. Now, how do you address these translations that EXPLICITLY, in the face of scriptures calls JESUS the TRUE GOD? |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Nobody: 7:00pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU: Let us stick with the Trinity, we will talk about your favourite topic HELL , after we do justice to this topic. |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Nobody: 7:01pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
Goshen360: @ Frosbel, My goodness, Pastor Goshen you have started using the message bible , lol What happened to KJV , NKJV , NASB etc. I do not rely on the bibles you quoted from. Let us stick with more reliable bibles like the NIV, NLT , NASB, NKJV etc. We try first one of the best phrase for phrase bibles out there, the NLT and then follow up with the NKJV. NLT "20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us understanding so that we can know the true God.[e] And now we live in fellowship with the true God because we live in fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the only true God, and he is eternal life." NKJV 20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. Notice in both cases we have the first statement and then a FULL STOP. The next sentence as mentioned earlier , corroborates the previous statement that says Yahweh is the only true GOD revealed through his SON Christ Jesus. |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Goshen360(m): 7:15pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
frosbel: Oga Frosbel......no mind me jare.....I betrayed and backslided from KJV ONLY...... . On a serious note, I did a study and come to conclusion that, I will keep using KJV AND do comparison with MANY other translations. Even the KJV that the article of Olaadegbu quoted from was clearer than others...... "Of course, the text for the day also links "eternal life" with Jesus, but note that the phrase, "the true God," is sandwiched between "his Son Jesus Christ" and "eternal life." If Jesus is the subject before and after, then the phrase, "the true God," applies to Him as well. It is not saying that the Lord Jesus Christ is a god (diminutive sense), but that He is "the true God" (emphatic sense). Modern-day cultists set themselves up as experts, pretending to know more about Jesus than the apostles who walked with Him, but John wrote about being "in Him that is true" (first part of today’s text). The important lesson for us is to connect personally with this true God, Jesus Christ—to be "in" Him". Oga Frosbel......now, let's discuss OUTSIDE your own NIV too.......What do you have to say for those translations that says JESUS is the TRUE GOD? |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Goshen360(m): 7:24pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
frosbel: So these other translations has become NON-RELIABLE because you said so or because you don't see Jesus as the TRUE GOD? |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Nobody: 7:33pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
Goshen360: Let us stick with the KJV , at least you and I can understand words such as betwixt and tithes "Of course, the text for the day also links "eternal life" with Jesus, but note that the phrase, "the true God," is sandwiched between "his Son Jesus Christ" and "eternal life." Sorry what does this mean : phrase, "the true God," is sandwiched between "his Son Jesus Christ" and "eternal life. If Jesus is the subject before and after, then the phrase, "the true God," applies to Him as well. Foul. The verse explicitly made a demarcation between the Son and GOD as follows : true God because we live in fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ Modern-day cultists set themselves up as experts, pretending to know more about Jesus than the apostles who walked with Him, but John wrote about being "in Him that is true" (first part of today’s text). The important lesson for us is to connect personally with this true God, Jesus Christ—to be "in" Him". I think to the contrary it is the Trinitarians who are holding onto the fallacy that the apostles ever thought that Jesus was GOD. If this was such an important subject in the early church , how come we never hear or see any record of disputes to this regard , until 300 years or so later when that Pagan emperor institutionalised the apostate brand of Christian and endorsed heresies such as the Trinity. Dissenters were even killed to defend this Pagan doctrine. Jesus's brothers Jude and James , all believed in ONE GOD , you would have thought that if this was not clear or if someone tried to infiltrate the church with a unitarian doctrine as the majority of Jews at that time held on to , there would have been a rancour. "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder." - James 2:19 We see warnings against circumcision and the Judaisers , but never any argument about the ONE indivisible GOD. The entire new testament is also silent on this matter , because they knew that God is , was and always had been ONE. If you notice in most of the epistles , the apostles always referred to GOD as the Father and the Lord Jesus as his SON, servant or even prophet. Oga Frosbel......now, let's discuss OUTSIDE your own NIV too.......What do you have to say for those translations that says JESUS is the TRUE GOD? Coming back to your main argument, let us use the KJV bible as you requested. 20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Notice the FULL STOP and then a new sentence to summarily confirm the previous sentence that GOD or Yahweh is the only true GOD. |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Goshen360(m): 7:35pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
The "know" ἵνα (Jina) introduces a purpose clause which gives the purpose of the preceding affirmation: “we know that the Son of God has come and has given us insight (so that we may) know him who is true.” The pronoun This one (οὗτος, Joutos) refers to a person, but it is far from clear whether it should be understood as a reference (1) to God the Father or (2) to Jesus Christ. R. E. Brown (Epistles of John [AB], 625) comments, “I John, which began with an example of stunning grammatical obscurity in the prologue, continues to the end to offer us examples of unclear grammar.” The nearest previous antecedent is Jesus Christ, immediately preceding, but on some occasions when this has been true the pronoun still refers to God (see 1 John 2:3). The first predicate which follows This one in 5:20, the true God, is a description of God the Father used by Jesus in John 17:3, and was used in the preceding clause of the present verse to refer to God the Father (him who is true). Yet the second predicate of This one in 5:20, eternal life, appears to refer to Jesus, because although the Father possesses “life” (John 5:26, 6:57) just as Jesus does (John 1:4, 6:57, 1 John 5:11), “life” is never predicated of the Father elsewhere, while it is predicated of Jesus in John 11:25 and 14:6 (a self-predication by Jesus). If This one in 5:20 is understood as referring to Jesus, it forms an inclusion with the prologue, which introduced the reader to “the eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us.” Thus it appears best to understand the pronoun This one in 5:20 as a reference to Jesus Christ. The christological affirmation which results is striking, but certainly not beyond the capabilities of the author (see John 1:1 and 20:28): This One [Jesus Christ] is the true God and eternal life. |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by BARRISTERS: 7:41pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
@Goshen360 I think that it will be fair not to hide the truth by jumping over a clear affirmation in the same 1 john chapter 5, now lets consider the previous verse 5 of the same chapter and see glarrinly what it says; using different translations but starting with the oldest bible king james version; 1 John 5:5 King James Version (KJV) [size=14pt]Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God[/size]? 1 John 5:5 New International Version (NIV) [size=14pt]Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. [/size] 1 John 5:5 New Living Translation (NLT) And who can win this battle against the world? Only those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God. 1 John 5:5 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW) Who wins the victory over the world? Isn’t it the person who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? something that is common to all these translation is; ''Only those who believe [size=18pt]that Jesus is the Son of God[/size]'' if you choose not to beleive that ''Jesus is the Son of God'' as affirmed here innitially, and you choose to hold on to a contrary view, closing your eye to this verse 5 of same chapter you quoted,so be it! when trinitarians quote a verse,i always laugh because the answer that expose the true meaning is not always far fetched from the same chapter they often quote, God is not of confusion bro! 2 Likes |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Goshen360(m): 7:49pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
@ BARRISTERS and Frosbel, Am not closing my eyes to the context.....The same context as shown from MANY translation that this same God is Jesus Christ. You guys don't seems to understand the ONE GOD, NOT Three manifest Himself as the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. I have asked two question to you the anti-trinitarians, What does the Bible meant when it says......"the LORD is THE Spirit"? Two. What audacity does other translation have to EXPLICTLY call JESUS the TRUE GOD? Abi make we no use other translations ni How do you guys explain these other translations that says JESUS is TRUE GOD...... |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by BARRISTERS: 7:50pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
@Goshen360 john knew that jesus is not God Almighty, but the son of God.! jesus was addressed using a title God or mighty God in the bible,[size=14pt] but jesus was never-and-ever reffered to as Almighty God![/size] that title 'Almighty differentiates jesus from his father! if you can prove anywhere Almighty was used for jesus pls bring them on! Mighty is not same as Almighty! 2 Likes |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Nobody: 7:59pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
frosbel:i read john 10.30 which states "I and Father are one" there is no MY! Look at the attached
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| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by BARRISTERS: 8:00pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
!Goshen360 Am not closing my eyes to the contextyou did not only close your eye to it but deliberately snub it and maybe prayed that it should not be noticed! What audacity does other translation have to EXPLICTLY call JESUS the TRUE GOD? Abi make we no use other translations n why not use the oldest bible king james version? !or rather lets use the hebrew/greeks translations strong dictionaries to translate verse 5, and let us see if 'son' of God means God himself! |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Goshen360(m): 8:02pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
BARRISTERS: @Goshen360 My brother, GOD is ONE! ......not three. The same You as father (if you have kids), as husband (if married) and as son (from a parent). Picture this and you will understand. It is the nature of God as DIVINE being, not MAN. It is the same ONE GOD who manifest Himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.......scripture says the LORD is THE Spirit. How do we explain Jesus (Lord) being Spirit? if it is NOT same person? Besisde, Kindly address the TRANSLATIONS that TRANSLATED 1 John 5:20 as Jesus being TRUE GOD. This is what I want you to address......afterall, you and I didn't write the Bible. |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by BARRISTERS: 8:09pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
@Hisblod i read john 11.30 which states "I and Father are one" there is no MY! Look at the attachedThen why not read further,in chapt.17:21 john 17:21 [size=14pt]That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us[/size]: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. so it means that believers are part of the trinity! isn'nt it? does that not show you that you need to reconciled the sorrounding facts and come to reality brother! 1 Like |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Nobody: 8:16pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
hisblud: i read john 11.30 which states "I and Father are one" there is no MY! Look at the attached I think you meant John 10:30. So that means by this same logic we are also ONE with God by the statement below : At John 17:20-23, Jesus prays for his disciples, "that they may all be one just as as You Father are in me and I in You.... that, they may be one, just as we also are one." The unity which Jesus discusses throughout John is a oneness of function and purpose. |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Nobody: 8:17pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
BARRISTERS: @Hisblod sorry Bro, you beat me to it. almost seconds apart |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Nobody: 8:17pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
BARRISTERS: @Hisblodi like that "hisblod". But bros i quoted 10.30 and you brought in 17.31. Context my bros will help. I tot you would point to the context either 2 or 3 verses before or after the above verse |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by BARRISTERS: 8:19pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
!Goshen It is the same ONE GOD who manifest Himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.......scripture says the LORD is THE Spirit. How do we explain Jesus (Lord) being Spirit? if it is NOT same person?fraud! Besisde, Kindly address the TRANSLATIONS that TRANSLATED 1 John 5:20 as Jesus being TRUE GOD.you CHERRYPICKED! what sooth your hearing, ignoring the preceeding translations of which you quoted! those translations are recent, and are not reliable,but doctored! 2 Timothy 4:3 King James Version (KJV) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Nobody: 8:20pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
Goshen360: Good , an acceptable statement. The same You as father (if you have kids), as husband (if married) and as son (from a parent). Picture this and you will understand. It is the nature of God as DIVINE being, not MAN. It is the same ONE GOD who manifest Himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.......scripture says the LORD is THE Spirit. How do we explain Jesus (Lord) being Spirit? if it is NOT same person? What !! Husband , wife and children are ONE as God is ONE but 3, Goshen you go kill me ooooo .And you keep asking the same questions over and over again , maybe if you had taken the time to respond to my answer to the question on the 'LORD is the SPIRIT ' we will be expatiating on the detail , and not redefining the concept. |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by BARRISTERS: 8:22pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
@Hisblud john 17:21 who are the 'they' here? are they part of the trinity? sorry for mispelling your username but answer my question bro! |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by Nobody: 8:22pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
hisblud: i like that "hisblod". But bros i quoted 10.30 and you brought in 17.31. Context my bros will help. I tot you would point to the context either 2 or 3 verses before or after the above verse Pal you guys are getting into a mess just like the Trinity doctrine, I had responded a post or 2 above. |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by k2039: 8:25pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
Mark 13:32, Jesus Christ said: “But of that day or that hour [of God’s coming execution of judgment] no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” But if the Father and the Son are coequal, how could the Son be ignorant of things the Father knows? |
| Re: ANTI - TRINITARIANS, How Do You Explain This Scripture ? by BARRISTERS: 8:27pm On Sep 14, 2012 |
Goshen 360, pls drop that pagan belief,if you are attached to it and because of that you want to continue in the mess you will be hard pressed on this page as you will be faced with loads of evidences that will swallow your claims!and it will be a riddicle,we have not started now you have given me a defination that will knock you down already, can we? |
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