frosbel:

Good , an acceptable statement.



What !!

Husband , wife and children are ONE as God is ONE but 3, Goshen you go kill me ooooo .


And you keep asking the same questions over and over again , maybe if you had taken the time to respond to my answer to the question on the 'LORD is the SPIRIT ' we will be expatiating on the detail , and not redefining the concept.

Bros....I don tire for you sef ooo . You also seems to avoid the other translations that translated Jesus as TRUE GOD and another says the Lord (Jesus) is the Spirit......If you don't go with the teaching of trinity, that's fine as we both agree that there is ONE GOD. I brought up the 1 John 5:20 in order for you guys to explain especially from the translations that says Jesus is the TRUE GOD but you don't like those translations also but stick to your NIV. I don't have problem with that but let us not dispute other translations that makes some bible verse clearer.

Lo ba tan......

BARRISTERS: Goshen 360,

pls drop that pagan belief,if you are attached to it and because of that you want to continue in the mess you will be hard pressed on this page as you will be faced with loads of evidences that will swallow your claims!and it will be a riddicle,we have not started now you have given me a defination that will knock you down already, can we?

.....because you say it is pagan belief? I have said openly.....God is ONE! 1 x 1 x 1 = 1, NOT 1 + 1 + 1 = 1. Glory to God.

Goshen360:

Bros....I don tire for you sef ooo . You also seems to avoid the other translations that translated Jesus as TRUE GOD and another says the Lord (Jesus) is the Spirit......If you don't go with the teaching of trinity, that's fine as we both agree that there is ONE GOD. I brought up the 1 John 5:20 in order for you guys to explain especially from the translations that says Jesus is the TRUE GOD but you don't like those translations also but stick to your NIV. I don't have problem with that but let us not dispute other translations that makes some bible verse clearer.

Lo ba tan......

I used NLT , NIV , NASB , NKJV , KJV , I even went to consult codex sinaiticus (http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx) one of the hand written ancient Greek versions of the bible and they are all aligned in meaning.

frosbel:

Good , an acceptable statement.



What !!

Husband , wife and children are ONE as God is ONE but 3, Goshen you go kill me ooooo .


And you keep asking the same questions over and over again , maybe if you had taken the time to respond to my answer to the question on the 'LORD is the SPIRIT ' we will be expatiating on the detail , and not redefining the concept.

to the bolded, i think you didnt read it well, i think he said goshen is father (to his children) as well as a
husband (if married) and as son (from a
parent). All this is his manifestation.

Goshen360:

.....because you say it is pagan belief? I have said openly.....God is ONE! 1 x 1 x 1 = 1, NOT 1 + 1 + 1 = 1. Glory to God.

You might as well be a catholic since you have very similar doctrines starting with the Trinity and then it goes downhill to an immortal soul, eternal hell etc.

May God open your eyes.

I think everyone agrees Father and Jesus are two seperate beings.Thats what I can infer from the post so far and I agree they are distinct.
I believe that the one true God his the father,He has the final say on all matters

John 17:20-21
“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one , Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.


Now, if Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father are one person, how can the apostles (being totally separate beings) be one person?
Impossible isn't it? Then why would Jesus include this in His prayer multiple times if it was impossible?
Because it is possible. Because Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father are two separate beings.

frosbel:

I used NLT , NIV , NASB , NKJV , KJV , I even went to consult codex sinaiticus (http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx) one of the hand written ancient Greek versions of the bible and they are all aligned in meaning.

Okay my brother.....we will always disagree to agree and leave room for our imperfection to the interpretation of scriptures. What am saying is, showing you guys that SOME translations (Amplified, GWT and Message) EXPLICITLY says JESUS is the TRUE GOD according to 1 John 5:20. It shouldn't border us if some translation didn't clarify "WHO" the TRUE GOD is according to our text for this thread BUT why should it also border us when SOME translations EXPLICITLY make it clear, calling JESUS the TRUE. Should be now discard those translations that explicitly calls Jesus the TRUE God just because it doesn't go with us? I had to consult ALL of the available translation to be clear and here we have it. It's okay if you don't believe in Trinity, but I believe it's NOT a pagan teaching.

Enjoy your weekend bro. It is well.

frosbel:

You might as well be a catholic since you have very similar doctrines starting with the Trinity and then it goes downhill to an immortal soul, eternal hell etc.

May God open your eyes.

Nothing do you bros....absolutely, you are my man any day, any time. Glory to God!

Goshen360:

My brother, GOD is ONE! ......not three. The same You as father (if you have kids), as husband (if married) and as son (from a parent). Picture this and you will understand. It is the nature of God as DIVINE being, not MAN. It is the same ONE GOD who manifest Himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.......scripture says the LORD is THE Spirit. How do we explain Jesus (Lord) being Spirit? if it is NOT same person?

There's this little problem, my brother. The bolded seems to say that there's only one Person in the Godhead Who plays three roles. This is not vorrect, sir.

The Godhead must have more than one Person in it for the Bible to make sense. The Bible says that God is Love. That tells a lot about that Nature that is called God. Suffice to say that God is a Fellowship. There are three utterly Perfect unlimited Beings in that Fellowship. And one of them came to Earth to enter our situation so that He could open up the way back into that Fellowship.

We human beings were created to share in the joys and perfectness of that Fellowship but we threw the chance away in choosing a destiny outside of It. That chance is what Jesus, One of the Three won back for us. In fact, He went one better and lifted us fully into It.

The wonder of the Gospel is that the God we rebelled against actually came to by Himself heal the rift between us and Him. And He didn't just restore us to Adam's condition before the Fall. He gave to us what Adam was supposed to get by progressive obedience and submission to Him: complete unbreakable fellowship with Him.

Now the continued wrangle about Who's greater than Who and Who did what among the Three only evidences lack of understanding about Love. Love does not operate a hierarchy. Love does not separat. Love binds many as one. That which is attributable to the One is attributable to All because All are vitally linked as One so that what One experiences, All do. Also, Love makes the Lover submit to the Beloved, therefore does the Father worship the Son in the words in Hebrews 1:8-12 and Psalm 102:25-27. Therefore also does the Son declare blasphemy against the Holy Spirit unforgivable.

God is beautiful. To understand Him perfectly is beautifully and wonderfully impossible. But isn't knowing Him what eternal Life is? Learning Him in all the superabundance of His Glory and Majesty is what the Christian is called to.

We shouldn't be discouraged when our understanding of Him is found yet imperfect. In fact, we should naturally be encouraged for there is nothing worthy of our intellect but the knowledge of God.

Goshen360:

.....because you say it is pagan belief? I have said openly.....God is ONE! 1 x 1 x 1 = 1, NOT 1 + 1 + 1 = 1. Glory to God.

So the formular has changed from addition to multiplication??

Lwkm.........

Olaadegbu sometimes even uses eulers formular when the multiplication formular gets debunked.......

Goshen my bro its high time u leave this pagan doctrine and focus on the real .truths
.....

hisblud: to the bolded, i think you didnt read it well, i think he said goshen is father (to his children) as well as a
husband (if married) and as son (from a
parent). All this is his manifestation.

But goshen wuldnt agree that he is 3 persons would he??

Would goshen also agree that when ever he is a son(from a parent) he suddenly suffers from memory loss and then forgets who he is when he is a daddy(to his children)??

Or would goshen agree that whenever he is a son(from a parent) he forgets when he is suppose to close from work and get bak to his wife??

Jesus didn't know when the end would come but the Father knew...how manage??


This question has driven trinitarians mad!!!!!


Make ona leave trinity teaching alone ehhhh....

Its d most dumb doctrine ever sold......

k2039: I think everyone agrees Father and Jesus are two seperate beings.Thats what I can infer from the post so far and I agree they are distinct.
I believe that the one true God his the father,He has the final say on all matters

Ur welcome to the realm of truths my bro...

If trinitarians can see this then they need to wash them eyes.....lol...

@goshen....u seem to be relapsing back and forth on this trinity pagan dogmÀ...

U always upheld Yahweh was different from Jesus and also that Yahweh is greater than Jesus...I don't knw where ur heading to this time again.........

The 1 john u quoted right here has been explained with ve®ses from d same chapter but u choose to stick to the fact that Jesus is Yahweh........

May I ask u to explain 1 corinthians 15::24,27 $ 28....??....

New International Version (©1984)
24...Then the end will come, when he hands over
the kingdom to God the Father after he has
destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
27..For he "has put everything under his feet."
Now when it says that "everything" has been
put under him, it is clear that this does not
include God himself, who put everything under
Christ.
28..When he has done this, then the Son himself
will be made subject to him who put everything
under him, so that God may be all in all.
.....


Questions....

##...why would u Jesus(whom u claim to be the only true God) subject himself to another GOD??...

##...who is that person seperÀte from Jesus that "put everything under Jesus's feet"!??...
Is it Jesus??

##....who i§ that person that is excepted frÓm Jesus's Àuthority and power??

##....does or will Jesus ever stop being the almighty(that's ?if he is from ur assertions)?...because 1 corinthians says he will hand over the kingdom to some1(ofcus u knw that person) and subject himself to that person.........

Goshen leave the trinity alone and it will leave ....u

k2039: John 17:20-21
“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one , Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.


Now, if Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father are one person, how can the apostles (being totally separate beings) be one person?
Impossible isn't it? Then why would Jesus include this in His prayer multiple times if it was impossible?
Because it is possible. Because Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father are two separate beings.

Now ur getting it right......

Good thinking bro.......

hisblud: to the bolded, i think you didnt read it well, i think he said goshen is father (to his children) as well as a
husband (if married) and as son (from a
parent). All this is his manifestation.

Or let us reason this way according to goshens analogy....

1......If goshen as son(from a parent) dies in a car aCcident(God forbid..goshen is my beloved brother) While going to see his parents would we say goshen as Father(to his own children) and goshen as husband(to a wife) will still keep living or that it just a manifestation of goshen that died and not Goshen ??......


Ok let's look @ it this way......

2.....Is it possible for Goshen as Father(to his children) pick up a phone and call Goshen as son(to his parents) in an in.stance??....won't we call goshen a mad man suffering from schizophrenia??....

My point::::

From 1.....trinitarians and goshen is saying that a part of God can die and that infact God did die.....that would be the most stupid thing that ever happened.....

From 2......trinitarians are also saying that when Jesus said the Father is greater than He is ,he(Jesus) was on some shekpe and infact forgot who he was........and that Jesus was suffering from multiple personality disorder........
Also when Yahweh spoke to Jesus from heaven,just as Goshen as Father(to his children) would pick up a phone and call Goshen as son ( to his parents),trinitarians are implying that Yahweh was speaking to himself.....what then do we call God??....


Trinitarians leave trinity alone and stick to what d bible teaches......

ijawkid:

Now ur getting it right......

Good thinking bro.......

Am suprise you saying welcome to the realm of truth,this is what I have always said in all my post on trinity that all three are distinct beings.So show me where I said otherwise.

ijawkid: @goshen....u seem to be relapsing back and forth on this trinity pagan dogmÀ...

U always upheld Yahweh was different from Jesus and also that Yahweh is greater than Jesus...I don't knw where ur heading to this time again.........

The 1 john u quoted right here has been explained with ve®ses from d same chapter but u choose to stick to the fact that Jesus is Yahweh........

May I ask u to explain 1 corinthians 15::24,27 $ 28....??....

New International Version (©1984)
24...Then the end will come, when he hands over
the kingdom to God the Father after he has
destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
27..For he "has put everything under his feet."
Now when it says that "everything" has been
put under him, it is clear that this does not
include God himself, who put everything under
Christ.
28..When he has done this, then the Son himself
will be made subject to him who put everything
under him, so that God may be all in all.
.....


Questions....

##...why would u Jesus(whom u claim to be the only true God) subject himself to another GOD??...

##...who is that person seperÀte from Jesus that "put everything under Jesus's feet"!??...
Is it Jesus??

##....who i§ that person that is excepted frÓm Jesus's Àuthority and power??

##....does or will Jesus ever stop being the almighty(that's ?if he is from ur assertions)?...because 1 corinthians says he will hand over the kingdom to some1(ofcus u knw that person) and subject himself to that person.........

Goshen leave the trinity alone and it will leave ....u

Brilliant kweshuns answers of which prove the trinity dogma to be a false doctrine.

@Goshen
Since you failed woefully in answering the little kweshun I asked yesterday, maybe you can redeem yourself. By attempting to answer the kweshuns raised above

k2039:
Am suprise you saying welcome to the realm of truth,this is what I have always said in all my post on trinity that all three are distinct beings.So show me where I said otherwise.

Oh my chief I'm sorry...

Didn't take note...u knw we got more trinitarians than anti-trinitarians....

Good to know u don't support that roman doctrine....lol...

And without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness: God
was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of
angels, preached unto the
Gentiles, believed on in the
world, received up into glory.

The God refers to JESUS, second person in the Godhead who came in flesh to be able to pay the price of our sins.

PS: the trinity consists of 3 separate and distinct persons but one in essence, purpose and fellowship, no heirachy.

Ihedinobi:

There's this little problem, my brother. The bolded seems to say that there's only one Person in the Godhead Who plays three roles. This is not vorrect, sir.

The Godhead must have more than one Person in it for the Bible to make sense. The Bible says that God is Love. That tells a lot about that Nature that is called God. Suffice to say that God is a Fellowship. There are three utterly Perfect unlimited Beings in that Fellowship. And one of them came to Earth to enter our situation so that He could open up the way back into that Fellowship.

We human beings were created to share in the joys and perfectness of that Fellowship but we threw the chance away in choosing a destiny outside of It. That chance is what Jesus, One of the Three won back for us. In fact, He went one better and lifted us fully into It.

The wonder of the Gospel is that the God we rebelled against actually came to by Himself heal the rift between us and Him. And He didn't just restore us to Adam's condition before the Fall. He gave to us what Adam was supposed to get by progressive obedience and submission to Him: complete unbreakable fellowship with Him.

Now the continued wrangle about Who's greater than Who and Who did what among the Three only evidences lack of understanding about Love. Love does not operate a hierarchy. Love does not separat. Love binds many as one. That which is attributable to the One is attributable to All because All are vitally linked as One so that what One experiences, All do. Also, Love makes the Lover submit to the Beloved, therefore does the Father worship the Son in the words in Hebrews 1:8-12 and Psalm 102:25-27. Therefore also does the Son declare blasphemy against the Holy Spirit unforgivable.

God is beautiful. To understand Him perfectly is beautifully and wonderfully impossible. But isn't knowing Him what eternal Life is? Learning Him in all the superabundance of His Glory and Majesty is what the Christian is called to.

We shouldn't be discouraged when our understanding of Him is found yet imperfect. In fact, we should naturally be encouraged for there is nothing worthy of our intellect but the knowledge of God.

God bless you, i think at last, i have seen someone who really understands the doctrine of trinity the way it is.

haibe: And without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness: God
was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of
angels, preached unto the
Gentiles, believed on in the
world, received up into glory.

The God refers to JESUS, second person in the Godhead who came in flesh to be able to pay the price of our sins.

PS: the trinity consists of 3 separate and distinct persons but one in essence, purpose and fellowship, no heirachy.

Stop preaching this Trinity doctrine, it is alien to scripture.

God was manifest in the Flesh in the form of Christ who was the express image of his person.

We have to be careful how we use and understand grammar here.

Jesus Christ was and still is the express representation of GOD in character and purpose.

Image definition :

a : exact likeness : semblance <God created man in his own image — Genesis 1:27(Revised Standard Version)>
b : a person strikingly like another person <she is the image of her mother>



Jesus manifested all the attributes of the Father for the whole world to see but he is not and stll is not Almighty GOD.


Since when did the image of a person become that same person So why bother say that he is in the image of his DAD if he is in fact that same DAD.


Besides , of all the bibles , only the KJV which had undue catholic influence has this verse described as such.

Let us see what other versions have to say :


New International Version (©1984)
Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: Christ was revealed in a human body and vindicated by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and announced to the nations. He was believed in throughout the world and taken to heaven in glory.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.


International Standard Version (©2008)
By common confession, the secret of our godly worship is great: In flesh was he revealed to sight, kept righteous by the Spirit's might, adored by angels singing. To nations was he manifest, believing souls found peace and rest, our Lord in heaven reigning!

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And this Mystery of Righteousness is truly great, which was revealed in the flesh and was justified in The Spirit; He appeared to Angels and was preached among the Gentiles; He was trusted in the world and he ascended into glory.



Honestly Trinitarians, you guys have to come up with some definitive evidence in the scripture where :


1. Trinity is mentioned in the bible
2. Where it is explicitly mentioned in the Bible that God is Three.


When our Lord Jesus made the statement that God is ONE, why did he not say God is ONE but THREE .

Common guys , you can do better.

Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith:".
"Christ was revealed in a human body" and vindicated by the
Spirit. He was seen by angels and announced to the nations.
He was believed in throughout the world and taken to heaven
in glory.

"Christ was revealed in a human body"

My brother the trinity is not difficult to comprehend as you think.
For christ to be revealed in a human body, dont you think he must have been in another nature?

The word(who is God)(john 1:1) was made flesh and dwelt among us.(John 1:14)...simple as A B C'

I will just ask a simple question to you anti-trinitarians

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God(john 1:1)
How many true Gods do we have here?

haibe: I will just ask a simple question to you anti-trinitarians

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God(john 1:1)
How many true Gods do we have here?

2 , no ?

We have written volumes on this topic, kindly do some research yourself.

Google is free and you can also find free bibles of all versions, dictionaries, lexicons and concordance online.

Get some coffee and start working



[img]http://www.csulb.edu/library/Free%20Starbucks%20CCU.jpg[/img]

^^^^

Lest I forget , before you start , ask the Holy Spirit for wisdom and guidance.

frosbel:

2 , no ?

We have written volumes on this topic, kindly do some research yourself.

Google is free and you can also find free bibles of all versions, dictionaries, lexicons and concordance online.

Get some coffee and start working



[img]http://www.csulb.edu/library/Free%20Starbucks%20CCU.jpg[/img]

Its only a question dude, if you have an answer you can answer it and if you dont, you can just pass by, i dint restrict the question to you alone.

frosbel:

Let us stick with the KJV , at least you and I can understand words such as betwixt and tithes



Sorry what does this mean :

phrase, "the true God," is sandwiched between "his Son Jesus Christ" and "eternal life.



Foul.

The verse explicitly made a demarcation between the Son and GOD as follows :

true God because we live in fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ







I think to the contrary it is the Trinitarians who are holding onto the fallacy that the apostles ever thought that Jesus was GOD.

If this was such an important subject in the early church , how come we never hear or see any record of disputes to this regard , until 300 years or so later when that Pagan emperor institutionalised the apostate brand of Christian and endorsed heresies such as the Trinity.

Dissenters were even killed to defend this Pagan doctrine.


Jesus's brothers Jude and James , all believed in ONE GOD , you would have thought that if this was not clear or if someone tried to infiltrate the church with a unitarian doctrine as the majority of Jews at that time held on to , there would have been a rancour.

"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder." - James 2:19


We see warnings against circumcision and the Judaisers , but never any argument about the ONE indivisible GOD.

The entire new testament is also silent on this matter , because they knew that God is , was and always had been ONE. If you notice in most of the epistles , the apostles always referred to GOD as the Father and the Lord Jesus as his SON, servant or even prophet.





Coming back to your main argument, let us use the KJV bible as you requested.


20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Notice the FULL STOP and then a new sentence to summarily confirm the previous sentence that GOD or Yahweh is the only true GOD.

John 17:3

"This is life eternal that they know the only true God, and Jesus christ whom thou has sent".

Getting to know the father Yahweh is through the son jesus christ, that the father Yahweh had sent to lead us to the father Yahweh.

So simple.

truthislight:

John 17:3

"This is life eternal that they know the only true, and Jesus christ whom thou has sent".

Getting to know the father Yahweh is through the son jesus christ, that the father Yahweh had sent to lead us to the father Yahweh.

So simple.

Well so simple to us , but don't forget those who hate simplicity , they will turn one simple verse in the bible on it's head , and form a theology so complex that even 12 volumes will not be enough to contain the content

Goshen360:

My brother, GOD is ONE! ......not three. The same You as father (if you have kids), as husband (if married) and as son (from a parent). Picture this and you will understand. It is the nature of God as DIVINE being, not MAN. It is the same ONE GOD who manifest Himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.......scripture says the LORD is THE Spirit. How do we explain Jesus (Lord) being Spirit? if it is NOT same person?

Besisde, Kindly address the TRANSLATIONS that TRANSLATED 1 John 5:20 as Jesus being TRUE GOD. This is what I want you to address......afterall, you and I didn't write the Bible.

^^^

how can the son of a king be the king?

We can only have the son stand in for the king but that does not mean he is the king.

this is you expressing your limitation and inability to comprehend a very simple scripture.

Since you must accept the trinity befor you are accepted as a pastor, i can understand your worries, and why you must "make sense of the trinity" to your self.

my sympathy though.

Goshen360:

Okay my brother.....we will always disagree to agree and leave room for our imperfection to the interpretation of scriptures. What am saying is, showing you guys that SOME translations (Amplified, GWT and Message) EXPLICITLY says JESUS is the TRUE GOD according to 1 John 5:20. It shouldn't border us if some translation didn't clarify "WHO" the TRUE GOD is according to our text for this thread BUT why should it also border us when SOME translations EXPLICITLY make it clear, calling JESUS the TRUE. Should be now discard those translations that explicitly calls Jesus the TRUE God just because it doesn't go with us? I had to consult ALL of the available translation to be clear and here we have it. It's okay if you don't believe in Trinity, but I believe it's NOT a pagan teaching.

Enjoy your weekend bro. It is well.

i did not even see any of those translation saying that Jesus is the "true God", that statement was a reference to the father that was the subject of the text.

There is even no translation problem here but you.
You are the one forcing your opinion on that text.

@Ihedinobi

You knew that you have already exposed yourself on the other tread with this link https://www.nairaland.com/870257/worship-one-true-god-not/12 and im lifting a quotefrom your comment (in bold) below;

I made a clear write-up stating [size=14pt]what the Trinity is and why it is true and undefended in the Bible.[/size] The answers from those of your company to that write-up were very unworthy of people who claim superior knowledge. I'm sorry that I will not post the link here because I'm done with all that foolishness. Anyway, nobody bothered to dissect my write-up and pick it apart logically. All I got was derision and cheap attacks.

You specifically stated that the trinity concept is ''undefended in the Bible'', so why do people still fooling theirself defending it with the bible? trinity is in stark contrast with the holy or sacred scriptures,and thats a fact,...and so, a pagan belief! i stand to be corrected,insults will not help you out to address this fact!

@haibe

do you agree that trinity is undefended in the bible? now you adopted Ihedinobi's comment in wholesale below;

haibe to Ihedinobi;God bless you, i think at last, i have seen someone who really understands the doctrine of trinity the way it is.

and if his comment defines your belief on trinity then,why bother to confuse people with selected verses twisted and forced out of context to suit a pagan context? when it is undefended in the bible? haaaah, abomination!