The Trinity is a very debatable topic. Most people believe that the Trinity is the truth. Some people believe that the Trinity is not the truth. I am one of those people who do not believe that the Trinity is the truth. I am going to try to convince you that you should not believe the Trinity, because it is not true. My four points of discussion are:

- God cannot die,
- Jesus himself was not a Trinitarian,
- God is unchangeable and
- God cannot be tempted.


My first reason is that God cannot die. He is immortal, as the Bible says. If Jesus was God, then he could not have been crucified on the cross for our sins. If Jesus was the human form of God, who was doing God’s job when He was dead? The answer is, no one! If your reply is God was, then you have created two Gods. No one could have been doing His job if God was dead (which the Bible says is impossible!). If [as Modalists/Oneness say] Jesus and God are the same person, how could he resurrect himself from the dead? When you are dead, you are asleep and you don’t know anything, as Ecclesiastes 9:5 says: "For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten."

If you ask a person to explain the Trinity to you, they will say, "Well, it’s just a mystery." If you do not have an answer, then you should start looking in your Bible. But when you look in your Bible, it says nothing about the Trinity. The word Trinity is not in the Bible. It is not even hinted at in the Bible. [When the Bible says "God" it never means the Trinity. There are 12,000 instances of the words for "God" in the Bible and none of them means the triune God. — ed.]

My second point is that Jesus himself was not a Trinitarian. Jesus was a Jew. If you ask any Jewish rabbi what the word echad (the Hebrew word for one) means he will tell you it means one, not three or three forms of one, but simply one.

Jesus in the book of Mark (Mark 12:28-29) was talking to a scribe. The scribe asked Jesus what the greatest commandment was. Jesus answered by reciting the Shema (the creed of Israel): "The greatest commandment is this, ‘Hear O Israel, The Lord our God is one Lord.’" This means that God is one Person, not three as many today believe. Jesus never even dreamed of putting himself on the same level as God. He always called God his Father. Jesus also prayed all the time to his Father, God.

My third point is that God is unchangeable. This means that God cannot change into a human. The Bible states that Jesus, right now, is sitting at the right hand of God.

My last point is that God cannot be tempted. When you look at the Bible, it says that Jesus was tempted by Satan. The Bible says that God cannot be tempted in James 1:13: "When tempted, no one should say, ‘God is tempting me.’ For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone." For this to be true Jesus could not have been God because he was tempted by the very evil Satan.

The problem started many years ago when two sides argued about whether God was one or a Trinity. The decision was made at the Council of Nicea that God was a Trinity. Many of the people didn’t understand the Trinity, and the priests said, "We priests understand it and you don’t need to." That gave the priests power over the people. As you now see, God cannot be three Persons. It is simply impossible. If you ask people today to explain the Trinity to you, nine out of ten simply cannot explain it. That is amazing.

It’s really not that hard.

God is one and Jesus is His only Son.

http://adonimessiah..co.uk/2008/08/trinity-by-casey-hixon-12-years-old-in.html

Mtcheeeeeeeeew!!!I tot its smetin reasonable..................*spitts on d thread&continue sippin my zobo*

Bro Frosbel pls cud you explain John 20:28

Cud u also explain these too
john 10: 28, romans 9:5, 2 pet 1:1, titus 2 :13, hebrews 1:8, isaiah 9:6, john 10:33, thank you

No reply abi

The evidences are clear!!!!!!...... How could anyone build his/her faith on the concept of 1+1+1=1.
I have heard a lot in Christendom concerning Jesus, the son of Marry, the Grandson of Imran.
Some say he is God.
If he is God, how could human race (as helpless, gullible and weak we may be) killed the one that created us!!!!.... Surely, God is above all things powerful!!!!!!
Some say he is the son of God
If that is the case, is Mary the wife of God....... Is Adam, Eve, me and you also children of God...... Verily, the most high do no procreate, rather He creates and order every thing to be and it shall be......
Some say He is God because of the Miracle of his birth
If that is so........ Adam and Eve has no mother nor father... !!!!! The miracle of their existence is kinda harder to comprehend......
Peeps, lets all think, put away our bias and stereotypical mind and worship Allah; The Creator of all.......

You all (Muslims and Christians) are cordially invited to the lecture series to be delivered by Our Brother in humanity, Our Brother in Islam Dr. Zakir Naik....... Ke would be ready to answer our questions and clear our doubts insha Allah.

^^^ you and dr zakir can have fun at your session..

Frosbel, see what you caused?

shdemidemi: ^^^ you and dr zakir can have fun at your session..

Frosbel, see what you caused?

Frosbel no cause anything ooo allow am......
but shdemidemi,....... na logic i dey try arrange.
why come come have fun with us.............

An still waiting for explanation of the text i brought

olajide21: The evidences are clear!!!!!!...... How could anyone build his/her faith on the concept of 1+1+1=1.

permit me to ask if you have any knowledge of colors and how they combine. Have you ever wondered how the primary colors red, yellow and blue (three colors) can combine to give a unified(one) color white, and yet these three colors exist inside this white. This does not and should not explain the Trinity but it does say how yes 1+1+1 can indeed be =1.
Yet, It is not wisdom to limit the omnipotence of God to logics and mathematical numbers. God is bigger than numerals.

If he is God, how could human race (as helpless, gullible and weak we may be) killed the one that created us!!!!.... Surely, God is above all things powerful!!!!!!

'the Word (God's word) became 'FLESH' and dwelt amongst men'. Man cannot kill God, they can only harm the flesh.
With God, purpose surpases reason.

Some say he is the son of God[/b]
If that is the case, is Mary the wife of God

If God should say she is His wife you would have no authority to question His Will no matter how irrational it may seem to you, even Islam (especialy Islam) will not permit you to do so. Nevertheless, I could say Mary was a vessel of God rather than a wife.

....... Is Adam, Eve, me and you also children of God......

I'm a child of God. Only outsiders are refered to as servants and slaves.

Verily, the most high do no procreate, rather He creates and order every thing to be and it shall be......

Verily, has the most high God said this about Himself or is this yet another of many yolks that man has built around the neck of God so they can conveniently own and control Him?
Do no imagine unto God what He can and cannot do. This in itself is blasphemy.

Some say He is God because of the Miracle of his birth.
If that is so........ Adam and Eve has no mother nor father... !!!!! The miracle of their existence is kinda harder to comprehend......

do you then doubt the biblical story of the creation? Does the Quran validate this your doubt or is it just a personal one?

Peeps, lets all think, put away our bias and stereotypical mind and worship Allah; The Creator of all.......

I pray thesame for you. We all need our eyes be opened.

The bible itself, debunked the trinitarianism... Thr was a place in the bible in which Jesus said he is the Father. However, when Jesus was being crucified and he was looking up to heavens, he said "my father, my fater, why hast thou forsaken me"? Is Jesus forsaking himself or what's the point here?

solidbroda: The bible itself, debunked the trinitarianism... Thr was a place in the bible in which Jesus said he is the Father. However, when Jesus was being crucified and he was looking up to heavens, he said "my father, my fater, why hast thou forsaken me"? Is Jesus forsaking himself or what's the point here?

Don't mind the confused people , defending a pagan concept.

solidbroda: The bible itself, debunked the trinitarianism... Thr was a place in the bible in which Jesus said he is the Father. However, when Jesus was being crucified and he was looking up to heavens, he said "my father, my fater, why hast thou forsaken me"? Is Jesus forsaking himself or what's the point here?

God came to dwell with us as a man, they named him Emmanuel (God with us). The prophets spoke about his coming 2000 years before He came. He came 100% man and 100% God, He spoke as a man and acted as a man to fulfill all righteousness, through miracles He showed the Jews He was of God.
His mission was to die for our sins as a man, He felt all the pains just like you and I would feel it. Jesus is in His Father and the father is in Him.

solidbroda: The bible itself, debunked the trinitarianism... Thr was a place in the bible in which Jesus said he is the Father. However, when Jesus was being crucified and he was looking up to heavens, he said "my father, my fater, why hast thou forsaken me"? Is Jesus forsaking himself or what's the point here?

Christ never called himself the Father. He said, 'I and my father are one'. So, there is the father and there is the son.
Yet, as I ve pointed out, Christ is the "word" of God. You cannot separate a person from his word.

shdemidemi:

God came to dwell with us as a man, they named him Emmanuel (God with us). The prophets spoke about his coming 2000 years before He came. He came 100% man and 100% God, He spoke as a man and acted as a man to fulfill all righteousness, through miracles He showed the Jews He was of God.
His mission was to die for our sins as a man, He felt all the pains just like you and I would feel it. Jesus is in His Father and the father is in Him.

God is 100% GOD and MAN is 100% MAN.

There is no such thing as 100% GOD and 100% MAN , 100% is a holistic value.

Also , God sent his own Son to die for us, read the story of Abraham and Isaac, no difference, on the father and the other the Son.

Stop this mumbo jumbo Trinity fallacy.

frosbel:

God is 100% GOD and MAN is 100% MAN.

There is no such thing as 100% GOD and 100% MAN , 100% is a holistic value.

Also God sent his own Son to die for us, read the story of Abraham and Isaac, no difference, on the father and the other the Son.

Stop this mumbo jumbo Trinity fallacy.

I am not here to argue unedifying stuffs with you, I believe the books. I don't have any problem with God being in three persons. If you told a man 100 years ago that he would speak with someone in Nigeria from the Uk, he might think you are losing it. How can I then limit the divine power of God especially when the scriptures says it. Please and please don't impose what you think and don't make yourself the subject cos Christ and Christ alone is the subject and we have only the scriptures as a guide to the truth.

I wonder how else you want the story of God and Christ to be represented in the lives of Abraham and Isaac. Were they more than what they were, 'humans'?

[quote author=shdemidemi]

I am not here to argue unedifying stuffs with you, I believe the books. I don't have any problem with God being in three persons.

A Person is an individual in his own right , complete with will , intellect and emotion.

So 3 Persons means we have 3 different individuals , each with his own will , intellect and emotion.

Enter the Trinity - 3 Persons = 1 Person.

Tell that to those on the outside who want to learn about GOD , who Jesus came to reveal , and you make our belief in God to be an unintelligible mystery , yet this is not the purpose of Jesus , who came to show us the true GOD , and not to sow the seeds of confusion.

The Trinity is therefore anti-christ because it is against Christ and his mission to reveal to the world , the one and true GOD. Instead he is made to be this GOD , causing total confusion and mayhem.

"And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent," (John 17:3, NASB).

Despite the claims of Jesus not to be this GOD, despite SATAN himself calling Jesus Son of GOD , despite Peter calling him Christ and 'this MAN Jesus etc , you and your traditional cohorts insist that Jesus is a Liar and keep calling him GOD , erroneously so.

By keeping millions out of the kingdom with this false pagan concept, you could very well end up with their blood on your hands.

shdemidemi:

I am not here to argue unedifying stuffs with you, I believe the books. I don't have any problem with God being in three persons. If you told a man 100 years ago that he would speak with someone in Nigeria from the Uk, he might think you are losing it. How can I then limit the divine power of God especially when the scriptures says it.....

there is no such place in the bible where it is said (or even insinuated) that Christ is 100% God and 100% man. It does not mean that I doubt this statement. It is just that I would rather the scriptures direct my convictions than the other way around (and this is one of the mistakes that we make most of the time, even when we try to explain something that could be true).

Dewze:

there is no such place in the bible where it is said (or even insinuated) that Christ is 100% God and 100% man. It does not mean that I doubt this statement. It is just that I would rather the scriptures direct my convictions rather than the other way around (and this is one of the mistakes that we make most of the time, even when we try to explain something that could be true).

It is not true, if it is , show us in scripture .

frosbel: A Person is an individual in his own right , complete with will , intellect and emotion.
So 3 Persons means we have 3 different individuals , each with his own will , intellect and emotion.
Enter the Trinity - 3 Persons = 1 Person. huh
Tell that to those on the outside who want to learn about GOD , who Jesus came to reveal , and you make our belief in God to be an unintelligible mystery , yet this is not the purpose of Jesus , who came to show us the true GOD , and not to sow the seeds of confusion.

You see where the problem is, you are bothered about what an unbeliever thinks, even when what you as a believer thinks does not matter when it comes to God.
Let the world and its thought be of the world and let God be God. The two ways can't be aligned.

frosbel:
By keeping millions out of the kingdom with this false pagan concept, you could very well end up with their blood on your hands.

your above statement shows you don't even understand this gospel.so,believing in the trinity can actually determine my salvation according to your gospel?

@frosbel.
Like In the example of combination of colors that I ve mentioned, there is a 100% blue, a 100% red and a 100% yellow that makes ups a 100% white. It is the individual 100% of these colors that make up the pure white. Anything less than a 100% from any one of these colors gives us a biased(inpure) white.

Note: there are no 3 'Gods' in 1 God. There are 3 'persons' in 1 God.

[quote author=shdemidemi]

You see where the problem is, you are bothered about what an unbeliever thinks, even when what you as a believer thinks does not matter when it comes to God.

I am caution to ensure we do not misrepresent the TRUTH.

Let the world and its thought be of the world and let God be God. The two ways can't be aligned.

Yes , and it is SO , yet GOD is ONE Person.

your above statement shows you don't even understand this gospel.so,believing in the trinity can actually determine my salvation according to your gospel?

What is the Gospel ?

Dewze:

there is no such place in the bible where it is said (or even insinuated) that Christ is 100% God and 100% man. It does not mean that I doubt this statement. It is just that I would rather the scriptures direct my convictions rather than the other way around (and this is one of the mistakes that we make most of the time, even when we try to explain something that could be true).

I understand where you are coming from as well but when I say 100%, it simply means complete man in flesh like you and I and when I say 100% God, it means, with complete divine powers of glory.

frosbel:
What is the Gospel ?

This is the most important verse in the bible. Upon this verse every Christian stand, without this we are dead-

15 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

That is the truth, that is the gospel, that is the good news we are to share but we are busy sharing trinity, hell etc.

frosbel:

It is not true, if it is , show us in scripture .

'something that could be true', that is what I wrote.
I am not here to argue for the Trinity (my previous posts shld make u understand tht). I am simply against using logic as a parameter to defign God. Not every thing that is true are logical my bro (even men of science know this). Can you tell me the logical explanation of the attraction and repulsion btwn two stones (the magnet).

I had rather believe something until I convinced otherwise than to disbelieve until I am convinced otherwise.

Dewze:

'something that could be true', that is what I wrote.
I am not here to argue for the Trinity (my previous posts shld make u understand tht). I am simply against using logic as a parameter to defign God. Not every thing that is true are logical my bro (even men of science know this). Can you tell me the logical explanation of the attraction and repulsion btwn two stones (the magnet).

I had rather believe something until I convinced otherwise than to disbelieve until I am convinced otherwise.

Do we throw away reason and logic once we become Christians ?

frosbel:

Do we throw away reason and logic once we become Christians ?

yes, we should. Our reason and logic are foolishness before God.
All our wisdom should be drawn from the wisdom of the scriptures

[quote author=shdemidemi]

yes, we should. Our reason and logic are foolishness before God.

Mind you , the bible says the wisdom of the world of foolsihness before GOD , not reason and logic , no ?

Let me help you with definitions ( Oxford Dictionary ) :

Wisdom : the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgement; the quality of being wise:

Logic : reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity:

Reason : the power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgements logically:

All our wisdom should be drawn from the wisdom of the scriptures

indeed , and we apply reason and logic to this wisdom to ensure that it is valid .

frosbel:

Do we throw away reason and logic once we become Christians ?

logic should be seen as a 'guide' and not 'the way' by itself.
Even the guide book will be worn and made useless by the treacherous wheathers and storms we encounter in our journey to our destination. Faith is the only thing that is truly reliable to take us there eventualy.

[size=16pt]Frosbel, does the bible teach us to worship Jesus Christ? Yes or no[/size]

Dewze:

logic should be seen as a 'guide' and not 'the way' by itself.
Even the guide book will be worn and made useless by the treacherous wheathers and storms we encounter in our journey to our destination. Faith is the only thing that is truly reliable to take us there eventualy.

Faith is our means into the grace of GOD by which we are saved through faith.

But faith is not an abandonment of reason for we are told to test all things , prove that which is good and hold onto that which is true.

frosbel: Logic : reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity:

Reason : the power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgements logically:

Man would never reason or reach the same logical conclusion as God. Remember, the scripture says ' The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?'

Man's logic would always be drawn from selfishness, emotions etc. but the scripture tells us how we can be transformed and think like God will think-
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord

Thinking like the world and finding a linear logic to the things of God is carnal.