dmandy:


Waoh... I really shot myself....now I'm sure u use Niv so v.18.... may the lord grant that he will find mercy.....on that day. Was his friend alive when the above prayer was made?

Nooooo oooo! He was jumping up and down on the streets of gold when Paul prayed this. SMH

So you left other versions and looked for one to try to favor you. (Which didn't even do very well)

This is your NIV.

"May the Lord grant that he will find mercy from the Lord on that day! You know very well in how many ways he helped me in Ephesus."

I am still looking for where it said he died.

Now what is the difference between that prayer and this:

1 Thess 5:23 "May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

And beside you are just using that scripture because someone else used it and told you he was dead.

And BTW, even if you are saying he died and Paul prayed for him, how does it mean one can pray to a saint that has gone on. Because I have not still seen any scripture O. None of you can provide that.

Jeromejnr:


Nooooo oooo! He was jumping up and down on the streets of gold when Paul prayed this. SMH

So you left other versions and looked for one to try to favor you. (Which didn't even do very well)

This is your NIV.

"May the Lord grant that he will find mercy from the Lord on that day! You know very well in how many ways he helped me in Ephesus."

I am still looking for where it said he died.

Now what is the difference between that prayer and this:

1 Thess 5:23 "May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

And beside you are just using that scripture because someone else used it and told you he was dead.

And BTW, even if you are saying he died and Paul prayed for him, how does it mean one can pray to a saint that has gone on. Because I have not still seen any scripture O. None of you can provide that.

You are not only rigid, you also don't read in context. I should provide where the bible said that the guy was dead at that time.... I give up.

provide where the bible said Mary is dead. When you do call me.

peace

dmandy:


You are not only rigid, you also don't read in context. I should provide where the bible said that the guy was dead at that time.... I give up.

provide where the bible said Mary is dead. When you do call me.

peace

Good you finally gave up. Why? Because no proof. All you've been doing all along was assuming.

When you find where you can pray to Mary then tell me.

Jeromejnr:


Good you finally gave up. Why? Because no proof. All you've been doing all along was assuming.

When you find where you can pray to Mary then tell me.

You win... that makes you feel good, at least to u one competitor is out (with millions of others who pray to/for saints), That raises ur hope of making heaven at last.

Good luck with that.

dmandy:


You win... that makes you feel good, at least to u one competitor is out (with millions of others who pray to/for saints), That raises ur hope of making heaven at last.

Good luck with that.

Ur comment doesnt make any sense. That millions of ppl do something does not make it right.

We were busy tryna discuss scriptures. But u got angry and backed out because you couldn't prove anything. All I wanted was a scripture?

But.... I drop my pen.

Jeromejnr:


Ur comment doesnt make any sense. That millions of ppl do something does not make it right.

We were busy tryna discuss scriptures. But u got angry and backed out because you couldn't prove anything. All I wanted was a scripture?

But.... I drop my pen.

I got angry because all the while I thought I was discussing with a sincere person... how can you read through that passage and still ask for proof that onesiphorus was alive?

Read again.

"Greet Prisca and Aquila, and the household of
Onesiphorus."

You still seek a verse to proof that he was dead?

dmandy:


I got angry because all the while I thought I was discussing with a sincere person... how can you read through that passage and still ask for proof that onesiphorus was alive?

Read again.

"Greet Prisca and Aquila, and the household of
Onesiphorus."

You still seek a verse to proof that he was dead?

But even Greek scholars themselves have not agreed that he died.

But leave that? Let's just say I agree with you.

Questions to ponder:

As a result of that, when did it become a command to pray for the dead?

If we can pray for them to receive mercy, that means we can also pray for a particular Book Haram member that has died to receive Mercy on the last day? Or is it only for believers? If you say it is, how do you come about the conclusion that its only for believers, where in scripture is the principle giving?

Why did Jesus never teach it, but warned followers that if they don't repent they will die in their sin? Why did He say if they don't keep His words, that the Word will judge the! On the
last day?

Then I still need the scripture for praying to saints?

Thanks.

Jeromejnr:


But even Greek scholars themselves have not agreed that he died.

But leave that? Let's just say I agree with you.

Questions to ponder:

As a result of that, when did it become a command to pray for the dead?

If we can pray for them to receive mercy, that means we can also pray for a particular Book Haram member that has died to receive Mercy on the last day? Or is it only for believers? If you say it is, how do you come about the conclusion that its only for believers, where in scripture is the principle giving?

Why did Jesus never teach it, but warned followers that if they don't repent they will die in their sin? Why did He say if they don't keep His words, that the Word will judge the! On the
last day?

Then I still need the scripture for praying to saints?

Thanks.

Well bro I have already Left that even before you asked. So let's wait for scholars to agree on What is on the scriptures but till then.....

Its not a command of the Lord o
.. so Paul sinned. shekina... u win.

How far are u you obeying the command of Jesus on the cross to take the woman as your mother?

How far are u obeying the command to sell all you have and give the proceeds to the poor.

oh.... those are not directed you, but go into world increase and multiply is.

you win.I give up because as you pointed out cant proove anything.

www.mcgi.org
www.theoldpath.tv
www.elisoriano.com
esoriano.
www.youtube.com/theoldpath

dmandy:


Well bro I have already Left that even before you asked. So let's wait for scholars to agree on What is on the scriptures but till then.....

Its not a command of the Lord o
.. so Paul sinned. shekina... u win.

How far are u you obeying the command of Jesus on the cross to take the woman as your mother?

How far are u obeying the command to sell all you have and give the proceeds to the poor.

oh.... those are not directed you, but go into world increase and multiply is.

you win.I give up because as you pointed out cant proove anything.

So Jesus telling John to take Mary home was also directed to us Christians. SMH. So if I come to your house, will I see Mary?

You see why I said all you are doing is saying what someone said at one time.

Bro, you can't believe the bible anyway u want to. Better stick to scriptures and stop feeding yourself with the leaven of the Pharisees.

And also, stop jumping questions, answer them first. Because all youve been doing is just beating round the bush. Where is the scripture of praying to Mary? Simple. Not all this long talk.

Go and think on those scripture deeply and ask God to help you understand them. As for me I rest my case.

Peace out.

Jeromejnr:


So Jesus telling John to take Mary home was also directed to us Christians. SMH. So if I come to your house, will I see Mary?

You see why I said all you are doing is saying what someone said at one time.

Bro, you can't believe the bible anyway u want to. Better stick to scriptures and stop feeding yourself with the leaven of the Pharisees.

And also, stop jumping questions, answer them first. Because all youve been doing is just beating round the bush. Where is the scripture of praying to Mary? Simple. Not all this long talk.

Go and think on those scripture deeply and ask God to help you understand them. As for me I rest my case.

Peace out.

I imagine non Christians reading our argument and laughing at us.

Your Bible said it was John... mine said beloved disciple. Someone is making an assumption here. Besides my bible didn't say Jesus asked him to take her home. He on his own accord decided to...I imagine some Christians today will abandon her there...afterall Christ only said Behold your mother...nothing else.

That command was for John and not u. SMH

All the commands Paul gave to some people at Corinth...is for u.

Christ telling his disciples to go and preach the good news is for u.

What's paul told Timothy is for u.

What God told Israelites are for u.

But what Jesus told 'John' is for John.

what God told Adam is for u.

It is not ignorance... its called hypocrisy.

Take the ones that suit you and leave the rest and anyone who takes what u reject is a high level sinner.

Like I said earlier it assures of ur making level....less competition.

dmandy:

I imagine non Christians reading our argument and laughing at us.

Your Bible said it was John... mine said beloved disciple. Someone is making an assumption here.

That command was for John and not u. SMH

All the commands Paul gave to some people at Corinth...is for u.

Christ telling his disciples to go and preach the good news is for u.

What's paul told Timothy is for u.

What God told Israelites are for u.

But what Jesus told 'John' is for John.

what God told Adam is for u.

It is not ignorance... its called hypocrisy.

Take the ones that suit you and leave the rest and anyone who takes what u reject is a high level sinner.

Like I said earlier it assures of ur making level....less competition.

I am guessing you don't know your history then.

But answer my Mary question first, all this beating round the bush is not helping.

So far you've not said anything concrete with backing of scriptures. All your doing is twisting and assuming.

Why are the Messianic Jews themselves not praying to Mary, since it was to them the commands of scriptures where first given? They should have known better isn't it? (Note I said Messianic Jews).

Answer my question and give me scriptures enof of the bla bla bla.

dmandy:

I imagine non Christians reading our argument and laughing at us.

Your Bible said it was John... mine said beloved disciple. Someone is making an assumption here. Besides my bible didn't say Jesus asked him to take her home. He on his own accord decided to...I imagine some Christians today will abandon her there...afterall Christ only said Behold your mother...nothing else.

That command was for John and not u. SMH

All the commands Paul gave to some people at Corinth...is for u.

Christ telling his disciples to go and preach the good news is for u.

What's paul told Timothy is for u.

What God told Israelites are for u.

But what Jesus told 'John' is for John.

what God told Adam is for u.

It is not ignorance... its called hypocrisy.

Take the ones that suit you and leave the rest and anyone who takes what u reject is a high level sinner.

Like I said earlier it assures of ur making level....less competition.

BTW, if all the commands are for you, why don't you carry five loaves and two fishes to Jesus for Him to multiply for you like He did that boy? Because Jesus told him to bring it.

SMH. Do you even know Jewish culture at all, do you know why it was necessary for Jesus the first Son to give His Mother to someone to be taken care of as He was leaving?

My guy, you get a lot to learn.

Jeromejnr:


I am guessing you don't know your history then.

But answer my Mary question first, all this beating round the bush is not helping.

So far you've not said anything concrete with backing of scriptures. All your doing is twisting and assuming.

Why are the Messianic Jews themselves not praying to Mary, since it was to them the commands of scriptures where first given? They should have known better isn't it? (Note I said Messianic Jews).

Answer my question and give me scriptures enof of the bla bla bla.

No.... I don't know history, but I know English. You that know history, tell me history using English or Igb language and I wil join you and know. But I hope ur history is in the Bible and not from some messianic or greek scholars as they take ages to agree on one subject matter

@bla bla bla.

I have already said u won now. which one be bla bla bla again na?

Every other thing in the scriptures concerns u except one.

For ur question so that your (fear of competing with so many) will vanish and u will continue in the euphoria that u are going to heaven alone.

It is not written explicitly that I should pray to Mary. (feel good?)

Nevertheless, it is not written explicitly that I should not.(maybe written in urs...I don't know)

St. Paul (the one whose letter to Corinthians is addressed to Jeromejnr) said that we are one body of christ and (not even death) can separate us from that. He also said that we should pray for one another....

So I chose not to leave out the saints... and u choose to abandon them. I chose to go to my pastor to pray for me but say no I wont.

And u say to urself (either for fear or jealousy) unless to stop going to ur pastor or praying for/to/with the saints in heaven, you are headed to hell. You make this claim yet u say proove to me that my claim is wrong but alas you don't say....here lies my proof for my claim.

On whose shoulders lie the burden of proof? Accused or the accuser?

Jeromejnr:


BTW, if all the commands are for you, why don't you carry five loaves and two fishes to Jesus for Him to multiply for you like He did that boy? Because Jesus told him to bring it.

SMH. Do you even know Jewish culture at all, do you know why it was necessary for Jesus the first Son to give His Mother to someone to be taken care of as He was leaving?

My guy, you get a lot to learn.

Lolz... so u don't take ur loaves and fishes (whatever they might be) to Jesus to multiply? Please start doing that from today and I trust Him He is capable of multiplying same.

Well, I don't know Jewish culture other than the ones written in the Bible. I am not a jew.... ask me about Igbo culture. (In igbo culture the last words of a dying man is seen a commandment).

But u believe with all ur heart (I know u do for you say being the first son) that Mary had other children, yet Jesus didn't trust any to hand her over to.issoryt.

Again my bible said a discipline whom he loved (you say John in order to suite your rigid believe)...I believe I am a disciple and that I am loved by Jesus, so that command is for me. Why u de vex for me! Na me tell u make u abandon am? Abi na wetin ur messianic jews or greek scholars tell u? or u are still waiting for them to agree!

before they agree for u, thats How I Roll.

U asked if u will see Mary in my house...... she is not only in my house but also with me as a loving mother.

You know sometimes we debate on some of this topics not because I expect u to agree with me (because that will wound ur hope of enjoying heaven alone). but we do it so that some other catholics and would be Catholics will read through with open mind and understand that the church's teachings are all biblical as against what those (who choose what to believe from the bible) tell them.

dmandy:


Lolz... so u don't take ur loaves and fishes (whatever they might be) to Jesus to multiply? Please start doing that from today and I trust Him He is capable of multiplying same.

Well, I don't know Jewish culture other than the ones written in the Bible. I am not a jew.... ask me about Igbo culture. (In igbo culture the last words of a dying man is seen a commandment).

But u believe with all ur heart (I know u do for you say being the first son) that Mary had other children, yet Jesus didn't trust any to hand her over to.issoryt.

Again my bible said a discipline whom he loved (you say John in order to suite your rigid believe)...I believe I am a disciple and that I am loved by Jesus, so that command is for me. Why u de vex for me! Na me tell u make u abandon am? Abi na wetin ur messianic jews or greek scholars tell u? or u are still waiting for them to agree!

before they agree for u, thats How I Roll.

U asked if u will see Mary in my house...... she is not only in my house but also with me as a loving mother.

You know sometimes we debate on some of this topics not because I expect u to agree with me (because that will wound ur hope of enjoying heaven alone). but we do it so that some other catholics and would be Catholics will read through with open mind and understand that the church's teachings are all biblical as against what those (who choose what to believe from the bible) tell them.

Long story.

Answer my question first and stop dodging.

Supposing you want to convert and unbeliever and you want to convince him that he can pray to Mary, how will you do that, will you be beating round the bush like you doing or try to look for scriptures?

Go on online and ask google to help you man.

Why can't you convince me so that I can join your fold of praying to Mary?

And was it you or someone earlier on from your camp that said it was not in the bible that Catholics don't believe in sticking to only the bible but also the word of mouth of other people?
All I am seeing here is confusion?

Now for the disciple that Jesus loved, why don't you go and study the book of John carefully so you can understand.

And thank God you said Jesus had brothers o. (See how they keep shooting their own foot). So that is to show you that Mary didn't leave the earth as a virgin doesn't it? But someone from your camp said she didn't have other children that is why she is honoured as the virgin Mary. (If you like say His brothers were His cousins).

So much confusion. You don't even understand what you believe in.

But answer my question first, stop beating round the bush.

Jeromejnr:


Long story.

Answer my question first and stop dodging.

Supposing you want to convert and unbeliever and you want to convince him that he can pray to Mary, how will you do that, will you be beating round the bush like you doing or try to look for scriptures?

Go on online and ask google to help you man.

Why can't you convince me so that I can join your fold of praying to Mary?

And was it you or someone earlier on from your camp that said it was not in the bible that Catholics don't believe in sticking to only the bible but also the word of mouth of other people?
All I am seeing here is confusion?

Now for the disciple that Jesus loved, why don't you go and study the book of John carefully so you can understand.

And thank God you said Jesus had brothers o. (See how they keep shooting their own foot). So that is to show you that Mary didn't leave the earth as a virgin doesn't it? But someone from your camp said she didn't have other children that is why she is honoured as the virgin Mary. (If you like say His brothers were His cousins).

So much confusion. You don't even understand what you believe in.

But answer my question first, stop beating round the bush.

I should ask google to help me undetstand what is in the Bible. Google is now the holy spirit. No problem.

I have studied that chapter and I did not see where the Bible said it was John but ur greek scholars might have agreed on that one. So let me go with u there. That commandment was for John and not u. You win.

As for Mary having other Children, maybe its written in ur own bible or by ur greek scholars whom u trust so much.

About Jewish tradition..... hmhmmmm someone told me that history and traditions don't matter but they do now because they tend to support ur claim. Your degree of ur hypocrisy high pass Majek Fashek favorite weed.

Your question has been answered but u chose to ignore.

dmandy:

No.... I don't know history, but I know English. You that know history, tell me history using English or Igb language and I wil join you and know. But I hope ur history is in the Bible and not from some messianic or greek scholars as they take ages to agree on one subject matter
@bla bla bla.
I have already said u won now. which one be bla bla bla again na?
Every other thing in the scriptures concerns u except one.
For ur question so that your (fear of competing with so many) will vanish and u will continue in the euphoria that u are going to heaven alone.
It is not written explicitly that I should pray to Mary. (feel good?)
Nevertheless, it is not written explicitly that I should not.(maybe written in urs...I don't know)
St. Paul (the one whose letter to Corinthians is addressed to Jeromejnr) said that we are one body of christ and (not even death) can separate us from that. He also said that we should pray for one another....
So I chose not to leave out the saints... and u choose to abandon them. I chose to go to my pastor to pray for me but say no I wont.
And u say to urself (either for fear or jealousy) unless to stop going to ur pastor or praying for/to/with the saints in heaven, you are headed to hell. You make this claim yet u say proove to me that my claim is wrong but alas you don't say....here lies my proof for my claim.
On whose shoulders lie the burden of proof? Accused or the accuser?

BTW I am asking u to Mary or even love her.....all I ask is that u STOP ejaculating that u are the only one doing the right thing and headed to heaven alone.

The catholic church told 'Jesus was born on 25th December', 'Easter Sunday is on so so and so day', e.t.c you did not question where it was in the Bible. You did not stop celebrating Christmas because if u do u might have to go and build your own earth and start going to school over there. But when the church says 'look people in heave are the same body of Christ as St. paul wrote, we should share fellowship with them' you question where it was written in the Bible. If the latter is false, don't you think the former is false as well. Stop celebrating Christmas and Easter and plan your own calendar. Hypocrite

dmandy:


I should ask google to help me undetstand what is in the Bible. Google is now the holy spirit. No problem.

I have studied that chapter and I did not see where the Bible said it was John but ur greek scholars might have agreed on that one. So let me go with u there. That commandment was for John and not u. You win.

As for Mary having other Children, maybe its written in ur own bible or by ur greek scholars whom u trust so much.

About Jewish tradition..... hmhmmmm someone told me that history and traditions don't matter but they do now because they tend to support ur claim. Your degree of ur hypocrisy high pass Majek Fashek favorite weed.

Your question has been answered but u chose to ignore.

I should ask google to help me undetstand what is in the Bible. Google is now the holy spirit. No problem.

I have studied that chapter and I did not see where the Bible said it was John but ur greek scholars might have agreed on that one. So let me go with u there. That commandment was for John and not u. You win.

As for Mary having other Children, maybe its written in ur own bible or by ur greek scholars whom u trust so much.

About Jewish tradition..... hmhmmmm someone told me that history and traditions don't matter but they do now because they tend to support ur claim. Your degree of ur hypocrisy high pass Majek Fashek favorite weed.

Your question has been answered but u chose to ignore. check the quote above.

BTW I am asking u to Mary or even love her.....all I ask is that u STOP ejaculating that u are the only one doing the right thing and headed to heaven alone.

DAY 3

Still no scriptures.

Let's just say I agree with you on the Onesiphorus issue. Now scripture says "in the mouth of two or three witnesses let everything be established"

What you showed me was one scripture. Show me another to prove it is supposed to be a dogma. Because as we can see, we are not supposed to believe anything except is has been establish by different witnesses.

Secondly

Provide were it also says Mary is now Omniscient like God and is able to handle or answer millions of people praying all at the same time. And how you came about the assumptions that she has the ability to do that.

Thirdly

Dude give up man. Your fellows gave up long ago. This is Monday and I have been asking for scriptures since Saturday.

I have not even started to ask you questions yet and you're getting frustrated. All I need is scripture not assumption or what one man said somewhere.

Scriptures!

Jeromejnr:


DAY 3

Still no scriptures.

Let's just say I agree with you on the Onesiphorus issue. Now scripture says "in the mouth of two or three witnesses let everything be established"

What you showed me was one scripture. Show me another to prove it is supposed to be a dogma. Because as we can see, we are not supposed to believe anything except is has been establish by different witnesses.

Secondly

Provide were it also says Mary is now Omniscient like God and is able to handle or answer millions of people praying all at the same time. And how you came about the assumptions that she has the ability to do that.

Thirdly

Dude give up man. Your fellows gave up long ago. This is Monday and I have been asking for scriptures since Saturday.

I have not even started to ask you questions yet and you're getting frustrated. All I need is scripture not assumption or what one man said somewhere.

Scriptures!

I have given you the one I have... and you say it is not enough. Why don't you give me a scripture that said 'don't honor Mary' 'the scriptures is called Bible', 'Everything written in the Bible is not for your consumption', 'Google has the power to enterprete scriptures' or 'wait for greek scholars to agree what is writen before you believe', 'Jesus was born 25th december'. Just provide one and I will agree with you. Just one

You can deceive gullible people not me.

I will give up when I am sure that catholics and would be catholics reading this will know that those who claim to know know not.

dmandy:


I have given you the one I have... and you say it is not enough. Why don't you give me a scripture that said 'don't honor Mary' 'the scriptures is called Bible', 'Everything written in the Bible is not for your consumption', 'Google has the power to enterprete scriptures' or 'wait for greek scholars to agree what is writen before you believe', 'Jesus was born 25th december'. Just provide one and I will agree with you. Just one

You can deceive gullible people not me.

I will give up when I am sure that catholics and would be catholics reading this will know that those who claim to know know not.

My brother, honouring someone is different from praying to someone.

The bible commands that we should "honour one another" and also "give honor to whom honour is due"

What I need is scripture for praying to saints who have gone on, simple.

dmandy:


I have given you the one I have... and you say it is not enough. Why don't you give me a scripture that said 'don't honor Mary' 'the scriptures is called Bible', 'Everything written in the Bible is not for your consumption', 'Google has the power to enterprete scriptures' or 'wait for greek scholars to agree what is writen before you believe', 'Jesus was born 25th december'. Just provide one and I will agree with you. Just one

You can deceive gullible people not me.

I will give up when I am sure that catholics and would be catholics reading this will know that those who claim to know know not.

Hehe!

Sure I am always ready to give you scriptures.

As for Jesus being born on December 25th, no one ever said it was recorded in the first place. But why did we choose 25th? Simple:

Rom 14:6
"Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;…"

So as we can see, whether someone chooses to celebrate December 25th or not is never the issue with God, He honors all alike. If you like you can choose January 5th as you own celebration of His birth or even March 15th.

for example, In Ukraine they celebrate Christ birth on January and not December.

So I have given you scripture. I am still waiting for yours.

Jeromejnr:


My brother, honouring someone is different from praying to someone.

The bible commands that we should "honour one another" and also "give honor to whom honour is due"

What I need is scripture for praying to saints who have gone on simple.

I have shown u the one I have, u say its not enough... why don't you give me just one (and it will be enough for me) to show me the Bible disapproves on praying to saints. Only one example from Jesus and Nathaniel knew that something good could come from Nazareth. Give me just one verse or half and I will believe u.

I forgot its to whom honour is due and according to u she doesn't deserve honour. That's ur business.

Jeromejnr:


Hehe!

Sure I am always ready to give you scriptures.

As for Jesus being born on December 25th, no one ever said it was recorded in the first place. But why did we choose 25th? Simple:

Rom 14:6
"Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;…"

So as we can see, whether someone chooses to celebrate December 25th or not is never the issue with God, He honors all alike. If you like you can choose January 5th as you own celebration of His birth or even March 15th.

for example, In Ukraine they celebrate Christ birth on January and not December.

So I have given you scripture. I am still waiting for yours.

waoh... clever by half. since the Church (which according to u is false) chose that day, why don't to choose yours for good and bad cannot proceed from one hole

dmandy:


I have shown u the one I have, u say its not enough... why don't you give me just one (and it will be enough for me) to show me the Bible disapproves on praying to saints. Only one example from Jesus and Nathaniel knew that something good could come from Nazareth. Give me just one verse or half and I will believe u.

I forgot its to whom honour is due and according to u she doesn't deserve honour. That's ur business.

I will not just give you one but many.

1 Tim 2:5 "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." So there is no one else that can mediate with God for us. If Jesus is the ONLY mediator, that indicates Mary and the saints cannot be mediators. They cannot mediate our prayer requests to God.

Heb 7:25 "Therefore He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them" So tell me, with Jesus Himself interceding for us, why would we need Mary or the saints to intercede for us?

Romans 8:26-27 "describes the Holy Spirit interceding for us. With the 2nd and 3rd members of the Trinity already interceding for us before the Father in heaven, what possible need could there be to have Mary or the saints interceding for us?"

John 16:23
In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.

Other scriptures for you consideration:

1 Corinthians 4:6
"Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other."

Colossians 2:23
"Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence."

Col 2:18
"Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.…"

dmandy:


waoh... clever by half. since the Church (which according to u is false) chose that day, why don't to choose yours for good and bad cannot proceed from one hole

Stop being stubborn man.

If I decide to choose mine there is no problem. Like I said to you or maybe someone else,

1. I never said all you guys do is false. We are talking about Praying to Mary here.

2. That God used the catholic church in some things one time does not make everything they do right. Example:God used Judas to cast out demons and healed the sick but he still ended up in hell.

3. I never said because you pray to Mary you will end up in hell, (you've been trying to put that in my mouth since). We are just talking of doctrinal errors here.

4. The church as whole decided to make December 25th a celebration of Christ's birth, they never said it was a command.

Jeromejnr:


I will not just give you one but many.

1 Tim 2:5 "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." So there is no one else that can mediate with God for us. If Jesus is the ONLY mediator, that indicates Mary and the saints cannot be mediators. They cannot mediate our prayer requests to God.

Heb 7:25 "Therefore He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them" So tell me, with Jesus Himself interceding for us, why would we need Mary or the saints to intercede for us?

Romans 8:26-27 "describes the Holy Spirit interceding for us. With the 2nd and 3rd members of the Trinity already interceding for us before the Father in heaven, what possible need could there be to have Mary or the saints interceding for us?"

John 16:23
In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.

Other scriptures for you consideration:

1 Corinthians 4:6
"Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other."

Colossians 2:23
"Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence."

Col 2:18
"Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.…"

In summary, Jerome 1:4-8, don't tell anybody about Jesus and don't let anyone talk to u about Him for He will locate anywhere u are. If you do the above, you are taking the place of the 2nd and 3rd persons of the Trinity. Trinity being a word found in the bible in d book of Jerome 4:13

dmandy:


In summary, Jerome 1:4-8, don't tell anybody about Jesus and don't let anyone talk to u about Him for He will locate anywhere u are. If you do the above, you are taking the place of the 2nd and 3rd persons of the Trinity.

Hehe. Only God know what you wrote up there.

Now read this article I saw online and stop being ignorant:

Catholics argue that praying to Mary and the saints is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. Let us examine that claim. (1) The Apostle Paul asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians 6:19. Many Scriptures describe believers praying for one another (2 Corinthians 1:11; Ephesians 1:16; Philippians 1:19; 2 Timothy 1:3). The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for him. The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth. (2) The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers. Mary and the saints are not omniscient. Even glorified in heaven, they are still finite beings with limitations. How could they possibly hear the prayers of millions of people? Whenever the Bible mentions praying to or speaking with the dead, it is in the context of sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy, and divination—activities the Bible strongly condemns (Leviticus 20:27; Deuteronomy 18:10-13). In the one instance when a "saint" is spoken to, Samuel in 1 Samuel 28:7-19, Samuel is not exactly happy to be disturbed. It is clear that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to pray for us. One has a strong biblical basis; the other has no biblical basis whatsoever.

God does not answer prayers based on who is praying. God answers prayers based on whether they are asked according to His will (1 John 5:14-15). There is absolutely no basis or need to pray to anyone other than God alone. There is no basis for asking those who are in heaven to pray for us. Only God can hear our prayers. Only God can answer our prayers. No one in heaven has any greater access to God's throne than we do through prayer (Hebrews 4:16).

dmandy:


There are no dead saints anywhere in the bible... show me?

Christians don't become saints when they die, they only join up with the saints in heaven when they "die".

Jeromejnr:


Stop being stubborn man.

If I decide to choose mine there is no problem. Like I said to you or maybe someone else,

1. I never said all you guys do is false. We are talking about Praying to Mary here.

2. That God used the catholic church in some things one time does not make everything they do right. Example:God used Judas to cast out demons and healed the sick but he still ended up in hell.

3. I never said because you pray to Mary you will end up in hell, (you've been trying to put that in my mouth since). We are just talking of doctrinal errors here.

4. The church as whole decided to make December 25th a celebration of Christ's birth, they never said it was a command.

The church as whole decided you can pray to Mary! Its ur choice not to pray to her, so you can ad well choose to celebrate Christmas on 29th Feb.

FYI Mary does not take the place of Jesus as a mediator.... he prays for me to God through Jesus the same way my Pastor does. If you don't understand her role ask the Apostles at the wedding which took place at Cana.

dmandy:


In summary, Jerome 1:4-8, don't tell anybody about Jesus and don't let anyone talk to u about Him for He will locate anywhere u are. If you do the above, you are taking the place of the 2nd and 3rd persons of the Trinity. Trinity being a word found in the bible in d book of Jerome 4:13

There is no special thing on the word trinity. Trinity means a group of three. We use that to describe Elohim.Which was used in the beginning of Genesis "Where it says and God said...." God there in Hebrew was Elohim which meant gods. (The Father Son and Holy spirit) I mean even Jesus said baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

But if we are to go by your baby talks. Then I will say, Show us were the word Catholic is in the bible.

Jeromejnr:


There is no special thing on the word trinity. Trinity means a group of three. We use that to describe Elohim.Which was used in the beginning of Genesis "Where it says and God said...." God there in Hebrew was Elohim which meant gods. (The Father Son and Holy spirit) I mean even Jesus said baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

But if we are to go by your baby talks. Then I will say, Show us were the word Catholic is in the bible.

Check the book of Jerome

OLAADEGBU:


Christians don't become saints when they die, they only join up with the saints in heaven when they "die".

Hahahaha.......