@Pligrim.1: Where did I make a mistake? Tell me. I just don't get your poof joke. Do you the whereabout of Gospel of Jesus or he did not write one down? He was lettered/learned/learnt, unlike Muhammad. Yet Muhammad revelation was memorised and used for salah, and all forms of Islamic ceremonies while he was still alive. It took 23 years from the first 5 verses of this revelation, before it was complete. Yet throughout these 23 years, each and every revelation part was written down and memorised by the community, led be the noble leader himself! he was even corrected by a companion once in salah. This was such of the strictest of safeguard that is over the authenticity of Qur'an!

If you think you think the christians have sole ownership to Jesus, just because other founded a religion and hang it all on his name, you are mistaken! Jesus was not a christian! I have more right and kinship to him than you! Thats the fact, my esteem sister! In my answer to Nwando, there is no place that i indicated agreement with whatever Nwando posted! Infact, i challenged that only what is authentic from Jesus is acceptable, therefore, I want Nwando to courageously asked if Nwando has ever seen or heard anything from the Gospel of Jesus before. Jesus was lettered so he must have had something written down! Is this Gospel one of the rejected like those of his other disciples whose Gospels were a gainst the 4 according to in the Bible, too? Am just asking the Question s here, trying to agitate our thinking, altogether.

Olabowole,it is virtually impossible to reason with an unsaved man in the things of God.
The Bible says so and you confirm it.

The Bible is written by inspiration of the holy spirit,so the Bible says and I believe it 100%.
All these attempts by you and other Muslims to discredit the scriptutes and yet claim to love Christ is just so laughable.

Christ says,if you love me keep my commandments and obey my words.
You don't know him.

The Muslim version of Christ is totally warped since Mohammed merely copied some biblical texts wrongly and smuggled some into the Koran.
Islam and Mohammed came to be centuries after the death and resurrection of Christ,so a primary school pupil would understand that Christ and the patriachs like Abraham could not have been Muslims.

I don't know how an intelligent man like you is unable to figure out what falsehood Mohammed,his Allah and his so called revelations were.
Revelations that came about to suit his purposes.
Too bad.

olabowale:

Do you the whereabout of Gospel of Jesus or he did not write one down?

Did any christian here tell you he/she was searching for a lost "gospel of Jesus Christ"? that is a muslim invention.
Jesus Christ didnt need to write down any gospel . . . those who were alive to see Him perform miracles and lay down His life for us all wrote them down for our examples.

olabowale:

He was lettered/learned/learnt, unlike Muhammad.

Were you the one who payed Jesus' school fees?
So because i am lettered, i should go write a gospel?

olabowale:

Yet Muhammad revelation was memorised and used for salah, and all forms of Islamic ceremonies while he was still alive. It took 23 years from the first 5 verses of this revelation, before it was complete. Yet throughout these 23 years, each and every revelation part was written down and memorised by the community, led be the noble leader himself! he was even corrected by a companion once in salah. This was such of the strictest of safeguard that is over the authenticity of Qur'an!

The same quran that contains abrogated verses? The same hadith that now has fakes?

olabowale:

If you think the christians have sole ownership to Jesus, just because other founded a religion and hang it all on his name, you are mistaken! Jesus was not a christian! I have more right and kinship to him than you!

lol continue in your world of delusions. This is not about "claiming ownership", Jesus did not "found" a religion, He simply came with the message of salvation to WHOMSOEVER BELIEVETH including you alhaji.
Jesus was not a christian . . . He didnt need to be because He Himself was the Christ, the disciples were called christians because their character was seen to be Christ-like.

olabowale:

therefore, I want Nwando to courageously asked if Nwando has ever seen or heard anything from the Gospel of Jesus before. Jesus was lettered so he must have had something written down!

this is very dumb and is symptomatic of the spirit of delusion sweeping through islam. Jesus was lettered so automatically He must have written down just about what?
He didnt need to write anything . . . infact throughout His ministry He kept refering us to "it is written . . ."
He referenced the books of Isaiah, Moses, the sayings of Noah and Jonah and other mighty prophets of the old testament even the psalms. He came with a message, to speak to our hearts, to heal us of our infirmities and to shed His blood on the cross of calvary . . . only powerless frauds place undue emphasis on "writing gospels" rather than salvation.

olabowale:

Is this Gospel one of the rejected like those of his other disciples whose Gospels were a gainst the 4 according to in the Bible, too? Am just asking the Question s here, trying to agitate our thinking, altogether.

Rather than agitate our thinking (whatever that means), you have simply exposed the vile and fallen nature of the muslim spirit. The spirit that strives against the Holy Spirit seeking desperately to keep muslims in the spiritual desert where they are fed with the thorns of propaganda and the parched sands of delusion.

We have not heard of any other gospel rejected, we have not heard of any gospel of Jesus Christ. Rather than muslims constantly asking questions as a way to avoid having to answer the glaring lies in their quran, care to answer this very simple question of mine:

Allah claimed to have sent down and confirmed the torah and injil - WHERE ARE THEY?

davidylan:

Allah claimed to have sent down and confirmed the torah and injil - WHERE ARE THEY?

Assuming allah was lettered.LOL

@Nwando: You are funny. Its your Torah and Injiil. You should be concern that a common Unlettered man said before he was born, your book has been going through corruption. This means it is unpure. Poluted by the pens of the learned of olds to fit their common agendas. Then when the Unlettered man said it, the condition did not change, from that statement forwards. It continue even till today. So my dear, let us know, which Bible is correct; The Roman catholics, which is from what Protestant draw their Bible from, missing many books as between 5 and *? Or the protestants, who were so angered by the catholics in Rome, but instead of going back to the truth, whatever it may be, cut and paste from the catholic, the same people they are rejecting?

Please my dear, looking for your book with the muslims or your asking us to look about it for you, is not the answer. You go and find it yourself. Its enough that we tell you you are missing it. Thas miracle itself. You never have gotten it together since that statement was made by the unlettered noble leader! Disprove him, if you can. For sure, you can not! After all your search, if you fail, which you are bound to do, then come to Islam. God forgives, again and again. Suratul Az Zumar (Chapter 39).

@Nwando: Where is the GOSPEL OF JESUS SON OF MARY? SON OF MAN? THE MESSIAH OF ISRAEL? THE PROPHET? Please don't give any according tos! Give me answer that directly addresses my questions! I do not want to hear from John , etc and finally, don't give you know who!

For instaance, Muhammad was Unlettered. So he dictated what he said was revelations, to his many scribes. He and his companions, including the scribes, used it throughout the many years of their being alive. When Muhammad died, in the time of Abu bakr, the one who lead after Muhammad's death, they compile a single Qur'an, from all that is revealed. They used the several copies of patchments where verses were written (more than one for any single verse). Then they asked the reciters to recite what ever they knew. One correcting the other, in order that the precise sound is agreed upon. Yet there were at least seven different styles of recutations. Each style, having many substyles under it, and so on.

The single complete Qur'an, was left in the custody of Afsat (ra), one of the wives of Muhammad, who is also daughter of Umar bin khattab. Yet the pieces of patchments of what were in the communities before this binded book of complete Qur'an still remained, in the hands of who ever had it in the first place. After Abi Bakr died, (please note that I used Abu befoere and just now I used Abi. Both of them are correct), Umar became the leader of Islam. There was no effort take this singly existing Qur'an from the place of its custody!

However in the time of Uthman bin Affan, who suceeded, Umar, from this singly Qur'an, they developed by accent alone, four others named Mushafs Makka/Madina, Bagdad, Koffa (or Basra) and Damascus. The present day Qur'an styles of writing and recitations, a clearly oral tradition are based on the very original source of Islamic inspiration. From God to Jibril, from Jibril to Muhammad, from Muhammad to the companions, from the companions to the next generation, from this second generation to the third generation. This is continous links in the chain of Islam!

Sheihk Hamza Yusuuf, of ZetunaInstitute in Hayward California, a small town near Oakland said on CNN in September, in the speacial done by Christiana Amampour, in showing a book in his library, that the chain of knowledge in this book is known by links through generation and he is a link now, in the particular chain that he occurs.

Show me Jesus, directly as a source, from his own book. Not again, I repeat a wanna be 'according to,' which failed to produce even a last name. You ask yourself, are this just pen names? Where is the truth, really.

Aburo, Pligrim.1, am not beimg sarcastic. I need answers.

@Davidylan: I am laughing hard because of your responses to me. The school fees thing. haba. Aburo no vex. Renle. Calm down. This is a serious issue. You need to search your soul, hard.

Bawo ni otutu Rochester? Its bruttal. Its agreeable with you, I know. You need something to tame the tiger in you. I am still laughing. You are very funny! This is no point responding to you. Its better to see the humor and that will make the heart strong. Thanks for bringing laughter to my face.

olabowale:

@Nwando: You are funny. Its your Torah and Injiil. You should be concern that a common Unlettered man said before he was born, your book has been going through corruption. This means it is unpure.

Still you are unable to sit down and think deeply.
Should i be concerned if a man from Oshodi market just picks up a microphone and accuses the bible of forgery without proof? Definitely not.
Mohammad made claims of biblical corruption yet he could neither prove it nor show us the torah and injil his allah claimed he had sent down and confirmed.

olabowale:

@Nwando: Where is the GOSPEL OF JESUS SON OF MARY? SON OF MAN? THE MESSIAH OF ISRAEL? THE PROPHET? Please don't give any according tos! Give me answer that directly addresses my questions! I do not want to hear from John , etc and finally, don't give you know who!

Like every other muslim here you have also started crying for answers where there are none. Like every other decietful protege of mohammad and slave of the moon idol allah, you have also gone the route of posing "questions" as an oportunity to avoid those we ask of you.

Jesus Christ wrote NO gospels . . . He didnt need to write anyone. His very words and deeds are more than documented in the 4 gospels of mathew, mark, luke and john . . . men who walked with Him, lived with Him and suffered for Him.

The "gospel of Jesus Christ" mantra is a muslim invention. It is about time you began to see through the various lies of mohammad.

@davidylan: But Makka and Madina, indeed are far than Oshodi. The diffrences bewteen each and Oshodi is like Lagos to Rochester, NY State! So if you can, show us a pure Injiil. Forget Torah. Thats a Jewish concern. You as a christian should get us a single Injiil, and i will get you 10, each will not be similar to any other in its group. And none will be similar to your control or flagbearing Injiil! You can't do it, davidylan!

Jesus christ, son of mary, the messiah of the children of Israel, had 12 disciples. Yes. Excluding Judas Iscariot, you will have 11. You only have 4 speaking for the 11? The remaining 7 did not eat, sleep and suffer with the master? David, shi ko renle. ( Thats my attempt to speak my Ijebu ode dialect!).

When the Muslims point out to Barnabas gospel, you complain and condemn an apostle of Jesus, the master. We have not even gone to Philip and the others. My question is this; Is Paul and the later generations up to this generation, more knowledgeable about Jesus mission and the exact delivery of it, than any of the 11 and indeed the 12 desciples? Why hide at least 7 and show casing only 4?

I know you will tell me they all say the same thing. Then why do you have the 4 which almost practically say the same thing? One would have been just fine. If that one is authentic and unchanging! But of course we all know that that is impossible!

Muhammad, the Unlettered, have predicted it. Your Bible will always be many and always going through changes!

This is the proof to you that your Bible is corrupt! As to the abrogated verses in the Qur'an; at least they are in the Qur'an. They are not thrown out. For example, a man who is a drinker of alcohol, if he becomes a muslim, his proces of whining himself of drunkenness is in the there. You have the Master Blue Print in there for all personal and societal ills.

olabowale:

@davidylan: But Makka and Madina, indeed are far than Oshodi. The diffrences bewteen each and Oshodi is like Lagos to Rochester, NY State! So if you can, show us a pure Injiil. Forget Torah. Thats a Jewish concern. You as a christian should get us a single Injiil, and i will get you 10, each will not be similar to any other in its group. And none will be similar to your control or flagbearing Injiil! You can't do it, davidylan!

What injil are you looking for again? The bible is in the bookshop nearest to you, pls grab one for your reading pleasure.
There are indeed several different publishers but the same bible. Different phrasings to make the bible easier to read for those uncomfortable with old style english language that is used in the original King James version BUT the same message.
Since muslims ONLY read the letters and dont understand the spirit behind that word, they will forever continue to see differences where there are none.

Now: allah claimed to have "sent down and confirmed" one torah and injil - where are they?

olabowale:

Jesus christ, son of mary, the messiah of the children of Israel, had 12 disciples. Yes. Excluding Judas Iscariot, you will have 11. You only have 4 speaking for the 11? The remaining 7 did not eat, sleep and suffer with the master? David, shi ko renle. ( Thats my attempt to speak my Ijebu ode dialect!).

Baba alhaji, put on ur thinking cap when next you want to debate. Is there a certain rule that says EACH AND EVERYONE of the 12 disciples HAD to produce their own writings of Jesus' ministry? On the day of pentecost there were over 500 apostles present . . . do you expect that each of them should have written a gospel too? On that basis the bible would be 1,000,000 pages long and we would require lorries just to move it to church.

olabowale:

When the Muslims point out to Barnabas gospel, you complain and condemn an apostle of Jesus, the master. We have not even gone to Philip and the others. My question is this; Is Paul and the later generations up to this generation, more knowledgeable about Jesus mission and the exact delivery of it, than any of the 11 and indeed the 12 desciples? Why hide at least 7 and show casing only 4?

Muslims point to a phoney "gospel of barnabas" NOT because they are concerned about alleged missing parts of the bible but because in that they have a wishy-washy excuse to accuse the bible of corruption.
Paul did not write anything about the ministry of Jesus, his letters that we see are purely sermons and letters he wrote to his followers that now form part of our bible, our guide and our examples today.

olabowale:

I know you will tell me they all say the same thing. Then why do you have the 4 which almost practically say the same thing? One would have been just fine. If that one is authentic and unchanging! But of course we all know that that is impossible!

The fact that 4 different men (one of whom wasnt even part of the 12 disciples) wrote almost perfectly complimentary gospels shld be enough evidence that they were telling the truth except to the blind.

olabowale:

Muhammad, the Unlettered, have predicted it. Your Bible will always be many and always going through changes!

Mohammed who could not even predict where he would end up after his death? Puhlease give us a break! We dont take vagabonds and demon-possessed pretenders seriously.

olabowale:

This is the proof to you that your Bible is corrupt!

Remind me pls, what "proof" have you given? That mohammed said so?

olabowale:

As to the abrogated verses in the Qur'an; at least they are in the Qur'an. They are not thrown out. For example, a man who is a drinker of alcohol, if he becomes a muslim, his proces of whining himself of drunkenness is in the there. You have the Master Blue Print in there for all personal and societal ills.

What does the quran say about the Darfur crisis?
What does the quran have to say about suicide bombers?
What does the quran have to say about wahhabis, shiites and sunnis?
What does the quran have to say about homosexuals?
What does the quran have to say about heaven or hell?
What does the quran have to say about whether you should grow a beard or not?
What does the quran have to say about modes of islamic dressing?

Your quran is a spiritually empty pile of gibberish.

@Davidylan: Abajoo. O fowo kon Qur'an ri. O njiyon bi omu ti. Nkon ti mo fe so, mo nro ki nto so. O de ro nu, iwo omo yi. Hen? Kilo de? K ebi laka ye lo fi nlo ile iwe? Lo lakaaye no lati fi ro nko yi. Fi oju inu gbe.

But I still love you. You are so stubborn, its uncanny! You and Rochester fit each other like a glove!

If you read the Qur'an, the Darfur and the others will be staring you in the eyes! But you will not be able to see it; There is deaf, dumb and blind syndrom in the air. The heart is devoid of guidance. Not all muslims are good muslims. Thats why the leader of the masters (Muhammad bin Abdullah, AS), said that the Jews will be divided to 71 sects, the christians will be divided to 72 sect and the muslims will be divided into 73 sects. All of these sects of 71 and 72 and 73 will go to hellfire, except One, the sect from Islam that follows and obeys Qur'an and Sunnah/hadith!

As to Muhammad, there is no leader of paradise, other than him! Go and read the Qur'an, verses about Hellfire and Paradise abound! The inhabitants of each are described. Muhammad never remotely resemble people of hell! On the contrary, you will see many verses where the Lord of All things, yes, the One who created the moon, that Muhammad split along its full lenght, attaches Muhammad name to His own name; Muhammad rRasulullah!

If Muslims are people of Paradise, then it is a no brainer that their leader has to be person of paradise! So reo. david. Start to make sense, plehseeeeeeee! InshaAllah, I follow Muhammad and all those on nairaland who follow him, will be in paradise. There.


David. Kilonsele sie Omo boy?

olabowale:

@Davidylan: Abajoo. O fowo kon Qur'an ri. O njiyon bi omu ti. Nkon ti mo fe so, mo nro ki nto so. O de ro nu, iwo omo yi. Hen? Kilo de? K ebi laka ye lo fi nlo ile iwe? Lo lakaaye no lati fi ro nko yi. Fi oju inu gbe.

But I still love you. You are so stubborn, its uncanny! You and Rochester fit each other like a glove!

If you read the Qur'an, the Darfur and the others will be staring you in the eyes! But you will not be able to see it; There is deaf, dumb and blind syndrom in the air. The heart is devoid of guidance. Not all muslims are good muslims. Thats why the leader of the masters (Muhammad bin Abdullah, AS), said that the Jews will be divided to 71 sects, the christians will be divided to 72 sect and the muslims will be divided into 73 sects. All of these sects of 71 and 72 and 73 will go to hellfire, except One, the sect from Islam that follows and obeys Qur'an and Sunnah/hadith!

As to Muhammad, there is no leader of paradise, other than him! Go and read the Qur'an, verses about Hellfire and Paradise abound! The inhabitants of each are described. Muhammad never remotely resemble people of hell! On the contrary, you will see many verses where the Lord of All things, yes, the One who created the moon, that Muhammad split along its full lenght, attaches Muhammad name to His own name; Muhammad rRasulullah!

If Muslims are people of Paradise, then it is a no brainer that their leader has to be person of paradise! So reo. david. Start to make sense, plehseeeeeeee! InshaAllah, I follow Muhammad and all those on nairaland who follow him, will be in paradise. There.


David. Kilonsele sie Omo boy?

lol

alhaji alhaji!
E kon fi erin pami sha! Mo si n rerin bi omu ti.

olabowale:

But I still love you. You are so stubborn, its uncanny! You and Rochester fit each other like a glove!

alhaji alhaji. mo si teriba fun irun funfun o!

olabowale:

Thats why the leader of the masters (Muhammad bin Abdullah, AS), said that the Jews will be divided to 71 sects, the christians will be divided to 72 sect and the muslims will be divided into 73 sects. All of these sects of 71 and 72 and 73 will go to hellfire, except One, the sect from Islam that follows and obeys Qur'an and Sunnah/hadith!

Where are the 71 sects of the Jews? Are they in the moon?

olabowale:

As to Muhammad, there is no leader of paradise, other than him! Go and read the Qur'an, verses about Hellfire and Paradise abound! The inhabitants of each are described. Muhammad never remotely resemble people of hell! On the contrary, you will see many verses where the Lord of All things, yes, the One who created the moon, that Muhammad split along its full lenght, attaches Muhammad name to His own name; Muhammad rRasulullah!

Mohammed must have split this moon in his sleep . . . in so much so that his followers demanded a miracle and all he could tell them was that he was a man like unto them. Surely if anyone had seen this moon splitting fairy tale they would still not have been demanding a miracle eh alhaji?

olabowale:

If Muslims are people of Paradise, then it is a no brainer that their leader has to be person of paradise! So reo. david. Start to make sense, plehseeeeeeee! InshaAllah, I follow Muhammad and all those on nairaland who follow him, will be in paradise. There.

Mohammed on his death bed was not sure of any paradise . . . look before you breath your last.

olabowale:

David. Kilonsele sie Omo boy?

alhaji . . . ko si repete.

@ David,
Good job!!!

@ Nana,
What is so funny about what was written that made you laff out loud?

@Davidylan: Sampling of the 71 sects of the Jews: You have the reforms; There are many of them. You have the orthodox; so many to mention. Go to eastern parkway, in Brooklyn, you will have a fill of whatever you want. You have conservatives; Also many branches, mostly in manhattan and longisland and beverly hills types. Some Jews, dont even believe, in this or that. They eat pork, in the form of processed bacon. I know, I hang out with them. I can not avoid them, in my line of work. You will see plenty of them when you begin your practise. I pray for your success innthis regard.

From amongst the jews, you have Buhddist and other eastern religions. Yet they go to synagogues, when its their annual ceremonies and get togethers. Some only go to temples. What do you want david, you get it among them. Its like ragu, its in there.

The ones who demanded miracles, even the miracles of the splitting of the moon, are not his followers! They are the disbelieving makkan population! David, be honest. You do not know what you are talking about. Just shooting mouth will not cut it! this is about saving souls. You just can play with it. fast and loose will not work. You are rigid in your belief. We agree, but speak the truth about your religion, and do not lie about others'.

Yet the astronauts from america went to the moon. They saw a crack/fault running along the diameter of the moon. You do not have to believe, but it did happen. Moreso, not all of us will be able to go to the moon. Qur'an in its unchanging text, stands as the highest of all assurances for the prophethood of Muhammad. Unlike the ever changing Bible, with skips so amny you may think there is a grand prix race going on!

Again, I follow Muhammad, the leader of the largest believing nation, amongst the nations of prophets. InshaAllah, I and all MUSLIMS, males and females will be in PARADISE. Muhammad will sheffah before Allah. Muhammad appeal of intercession has been guaranteed. Read the Qur'an, you will find it in many places. In Surah, Mariam, Surah fajr and many others. I have no illusion. I am nit arrogant, this is why I said InshaAllah. The Lord how delivered Makka to Muhammad. He will make all believing Muslims, under their last prophet inhabitant of paradise.

What brought all these arguments in the title "The Importance of Fasting to Muslim" This topic is supposed to be for Muslims not DavidLiers or FakePilgrims, Please be patriotic to yourselves,

@Olabowale: I am very much sure you are a Muslim, these people are not looking for the truth, there is a wide difference for a person looking for the truth and the person looking for crisis, these people you are arguing with are in no way looking for the truth, and they will never say a thing that is positive in what you say, neither they will always look for the negative side of your points, even if there are no negative sides, they will create their own or change your discussion, but I am very much sure you will never come to an end with these people, they are looking to win the discussion not to understand the discussion, and their only perception is they will never lost, so I think you are just wasting your valuable time discussing with them.

If you are interested in propagating, then look for either those that wants to know and believe in the truth, not those that knows the truth and rejected it, because it is entirely sorry to say Impossible for this two people to positively understand your point, They Will NEVER ever even attempt to point out anything that you said that is or supposed to be truth, So many questions have been raised without positive response. And remember these people are not like Muslims, (they always approach negatively especially with Muslims), so these kind of people they hate so much so that they agree to be in Hell than accept Islam and enter the paradise, and I am very sure that if paradise will be physically shown to them, they will say aaaa this one is fake paradise and they will reject it, so if Allah did not guide someone there is no one that can guide them.

My advise to you and all Muslims that are discussing with these people on religious matters is just to leave them alone and never attempt to correct them, because to them, they will never make a mistake, and you are always a looser to them, and they always the winners, so it is waste of time to even discuss with them,

Olabowale please take your time,

thanks

What brought all these arguments in the title "The Importance of Fasting to Muslim" This topic is supposed to be for Muslims not DavidLiers or FakePilgrims, Please be patriotic to yourselves,

@Olabowale: I am very much sure you are a Muslim, these people are not looking for the truth, there is a wide difference for a person looking for the truth and the person looking for crisis, these people you are arguing with are in no way looking for the truth, and they will never say a thing that is positive in what you say, neither they will always look for the negative side of your points, even if there are no negative sides, they will create their own or change your discussion, but I am very much sure you will never come to an end with these people, they are looking to win the discussion not to understand the discussion, and their only perception is they will never lost, so I think you are just wasting your valuable time discussing with them.

If you are interested in propagating, then look for either those that wants to know and believe in the truth, not those that knows the truth and rejected it, because it is entirely sorry to say Impossible for this two people to positively understand your point, They Will NEVER ever even attempt to point out anything that you said that is or supposed to be truth, So many questions have been raised without positive response. And remember these people are not like Muslims, (they always approach negatively especially with Muslims), so these kind of people they hate so much so that they agree to be in Hell than accept Islam and enter the paradise, and I am very sure that if paradise will be physically shown to them, they will say aaaa this one is fake paradise and they will reject it, so if Allah did not guide someone there is no one that can guide them.

My advise to you and all Muslims that are discussing with these people on religious matters is just to leave them alone and never attempt to correct them, because to them, they will never make a mistake, and you are always a looser to them, and they always the winners, so it is waste of time to even discuss with them,

Olabowale please take your time,

thanks

Jazhakulah Khairan for that wonderful post. In addtion, I learnt from all I have been reading that they are not here to accept the truth and Allah said that even if you bring out angels to preach to them, they will still not respond. You can only preach but when you do your Dawah and they are not responding, it will be better you ignore them and continue praying for them.

Maa Salam

@auwal87,

auwal87:

What brought all these arguments in the title "The Importance of Fasting to Muslim" This topic is supposed to be for Muslims not DavidLiers or FakePilgrims, Please be patriotic to yourselves,

This sounds more like the whining of a child. What brought your Muslim brigand over to the Christian thread to litter every page with their caterwauls? You may cry all you please and still remain on the same reverse scholarship you pretend as 'truth'.

auwal87:

@Olabowale: I am very much sure you are a Muslim, these people are not looking for the truth, there is a wide difference for a person looking for the truth and the person looking for crisis, these people you are arguing with are in no way looking for the truth, and they will never say a thing that is positive in what you say, neither they will always look for the negative side of your points, even if there are no negative sides, they will create their own or change your discussion, but I am very much sure you will never come to an end with these people, they are looking to win the discussion not to understand the discussion, and their only perception is they will never lost, so I think you are just wasting your valuable time discussing with them.

Hehe. . loser! You were simply weeping there for your adulators who have had absolutely nothing to say in the face of staggering evidence to dispell what you have pretended all along to be "truth".

I haven't read Christians crying about winning any debate - ours have simply been to engage you guys and remove the dross. And if you have nothing to show for your pretended "truth", it is indeed a waste of time for you to make such noise as in your quote above.

auwal87:

If you are interested in propagating, then look for either those that wants to know and believe in the truth, not those that knows the truth and rejected it, because it is entirely sorry to say Impossible for this two people to positively understand your point,

Rubbish! You cannot try to dribble people by smuggling Muhammad into the Bible and pretending to be propagating "truth". That is an awkward deception - and there is nothing "positive" about Muslim duplicity.

auwal87:

They Will NEVER ever even attempt to point out anything that you said that is or supposed to be truth,

Hehehe. . . that is because you have been reading the threads with your eyes closed!

How many times have you missed the fact that we have always pointed out issues from the Bible, the Qur'an and the Hadiths?

What have your adulators pointed out when they were taken to a neat thread to be bleached after selling you the duplicity of smuggling Muhammad into John's Gospel?

How many times have your own apologists ever tried to reason and answer simple straight questions?

What did the Muslim ummah do when we pointed out precisely WHERE, HOW and WHY your apologists were gravely mistaken in their pretended scholarship?

You're just conveniently sitting the back way up and making the same typical remarks that are now the hallmark of your fellows.

auwal87:

So many questions have been raised without positive response.

Good you noticed that your Muslim apologists have not provided you with positive response. Ask them what they have done with the few recently offered them about whether or not 'Allah' revealed the BIBLE - and wait for their "positive response".

auwal87:

And remember these people are not like Muslims, (they always approach negatively especially with Muslims), so these kind of people they hate so much so that they agree to be in Hell than accept Islam and enter the paradise,

Lol. . . WAKE UP!! Your Qur'an clearly says that Muslims will ENTER the Hell Fire (Sura 19:71). If you're going straight to that dreadful place, we're not coming with you. So you can sit here and make all the noise you want about the hitman decree from 'Allah'.

auwal87:

and I am very sure that if paradise will be physically shown to them, they will say aaaa this one is fake paradise and they will reject it, so if Allah did not guide someone there is no one that can guide them.

We hear. Please, wash your eyes with zam-zam water and see that Islam is predicated on fantastic Arabian tales. Ask and I'll offer you some of the fascinating stories Muhammad told his gullible companions! Start with the one he told about Moses slapping the angel of death so badly that the angel was injured in his eye and scooted off to complain to 'Allah'.


Regards.

@Pligrim.1: Disprove the story and I will let you know how naive you have been all along.

First, you do not know the wisdom, behind the kingly upbringing of Moses. So your knowledge of Islam is so little and coupled with impurity of heart, may God help us all. I will like to hear your story. Mind you, you are talking to the rest of the world and there are people on nairaland who are not ignorant of islamic stories.

@Pligrim.1: You make too much noice. Its like a broken record. Wow. Where is the beef? You have not been able to prove Muhammad out of your Bible. Not that we need it to validate his prophethood.

Here is a question for you; When Johnwas asked, was he Elijah, or the Messiah or the prophet, what was his answer? And please, while you are at it, explain that verse to me, personally. How many entities were in that verse? One, Two , Three? If its one , who is that one? If its two, let us know who they are? If its three, also tell us by name who are these three?

This is enough home work for a while.


From your Bibke, we see that Jacob fought with God. He had a physical fight and his name was changed to Israel from that point on. Akso from your Bible, we see that Moses afetr so much pleading or insistance that God shiw him His back or neck. Both are from your Bible. You may now tell me that you are disregarding the olsd testament. That will not surprise me.

Who is more powerful God or death? If God allows himself to fight His creation, Jacob and almost lost the fight, and had to result into pressing the thigh of jacob so that he feel an extreme pain and God was abke to escape. Further if Moses, refused to bulge until God capitulated to his demand, then tell me is it so difficult for God to allow that same stubborn Moses to slap the face of death, a mere servant of God?

@olabowale,

olabowale:

@Pligrim.1: Disprove the story and I will let you know how naive you have been all along.

Disprove what "story"? HOW do you prove that Moses SLAPPED an angel - let alone the angel of DEATH?!?

If you could kindly ask Muhammad to "prove" the tales he whipped up, then your naivety would simply melt away. I'm not in the business of believing just about any "story" that Muhammad told his companions - they remain "stories", and only Arab gullibles could fall for them without putting on their thinking caps.

olabowale:

First, you do not know the wisdom, behind the kingly upbringing of Moses.

Please share what you know and let's consider the wisdom in Muhammad's tales about Moses slapping the angel of death!

olabowale:

So your knowledge of Islam is so little and coupled with impurity of heart, may God help us all.

Lol. . . I do not boast anything; but if my knowledge of islam is so little, how come you guys up until today have not been able to prove better? Simple questions asked will make you gets sweat around them until you're taken to a neat thread and bleached.

olabowale:

I will like to hear your story. Mind you, you are talking to the rest of the world and there are people on nairaland who are not ignorant of islamic stories.

I wonder how many people in a public Forum are that gullible to fall for the Arabian tales of Moses slapping the angel of death and wounding his eye! How did Muhammad come about that "story" - and where in the Qur'an did you find 'Allah' dictating that tale to Muhammad?

@olabowale,

olabowale:

@Pligrim.1: You make too much noice. Its like a broken record. Wow. Where is the beef? You have not been able to prove Muhammad out of your Bible. Not that we need it to validate his prophethood

Lol. . . alhaji, stop whinging! You guys tried to smuggle Muhammad into the Bible in order to accredit his career. What happened after the smuggling was arrested and thrown out of John's Gospel? Have you been able to attempt a second smuggling?

You may snivel so much about not needing to have attempted the illegal trade; but it was Muhammad who misled you guys into believing that Arabian tale by claiming it was a revelation of 'Allah' in the Qur'an!! But when we ask you guys to sit up and explicate where in the Torah and Injil you find Muhammad, then you turn round and claim that the Torah and Injil are LOST!

When Muhammad was telling his "story" about his being illiterate and that he was recorded in the same Torah and Injil, no one ever claimed that they were lost! I've asked you guys to show us where 'Allah' or even Muhammad ever claimed that they were lost - and you tanda sidon there dey confuse issues all the more for yourself!

olabowale:

Here is a question for you; When Johnwas asked, was he Elijah, or the Messiah or the prophet, what was his answer? And please, while you are at it, explain that verse to me, personally. How many entities were in that verse? One, Two , Three? If its one , who is that one? If its two, let us know who they are? If its three, also tell us by name who are these three?

Olabowale, this is the very same thing we have discussed in another thread where I gave a detailed answer to the same problem you perennially have slaved yourself on (John 1:19-27). Have we not dealt with this issue before?

Refresh your memory: did I not demonstrate that "the Prophet" was in reference to Moses prophecy of the Messiah in Deuteronomy 18?

And did I not explain already that the context of 'Elijah' was not a sort of reincarnation; but rather that John's ministry would be patterned after that of Elijah? That was why Jesus clearly explained that issue in Matthew 11:14 ("And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come" as well as Matthew 17:10-13 ("Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist". In typical Biblical expression, the difficulty melts away if we only look at Luke 1:17 as concerning John the Baptist, that he "shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias".

What is your difficulty there that you're asking "a question" that has already been thrashed and done with - while you are still scratching your head as to the other questions I offered your Muslim apologists? (click here and remind yourself)

@olabowale,

olabowale:

This is enough home work for a while.

I hear. It shouldn't take me more than a quarter of an hour in the noisiest part of the world to deflate them.

olabowale:

From your Bibke, we see that Jacob fought with God. He had a physical fight and his name was changed to Israel from that point on. Akso from your Bible, we see that Moses afetr so much pleading or insistance that God shiw him His back or neck. Both are from your Bible. You may now tell me that you are disregarding the olsd testament. That will not surprise me.

Lol. . . alhaji Olabowale, if you had intended to re-tell the incident of Jacob's wrestling with God in Gen. 32:24-30 and therefore said that Jacob slapped his divine guest, perhaps we might be on to something. But you still fall far behind Muhammad's tales of how Moses was supposed to have slapped the angel of death and injured his eye so much so that the angel scooted off to lodge a complaint to 'Allah' about his slave's attitude!

Alhaji, sorry. . . Jacob did not slap anybody O!

olabowale:

Who is more powerful God or death? If God allows himself to fight His creation, Jacob and almost lost the fight, and had to result into pressing the thigh of jacob so that he feel an extreme pain and God was abke to escape.

Hehe. . . Please quote the verses and let's see how the highlighted parts in your quote fit into the Bible! I don tell you before: sofry-sofry dey LIE!!

olabowale:

Further if Moses, refused to bulge until God capitulated to his demand, then tell me is it so difficult for God to allow that same stubborn Moses to slap the face of death, a mere servant of God?

Lol . . as above, help us quote the relevant passage or verse on "capitulate" and let's see for ourselves.

Olabowale, get done with Muhammad's tales. He forged the "story" as he did several others that no Muslim can coherently explicate. QED. Moses did not slap any angel - for he was no match for the angels who are more powerful than mere mortals.

If you are still salivating on this same "story" of Muhammad, could you please explain WHY Moses would have done such? What was the reason for such alleged action by Moses? And what was God's response to such a scenario?

@Pligrim.1: Omo de yi. O nfun mi ni wahala. Ko dara o. O je ki nlo ka bibeli. I am through doing that, long time. I already, by Allah's Mercy made her walked away from Christianity, at her old age of 80 and counting. Alhamdulillah.

It so happened that some jew called me just now and i asked him for the verses. Even he in his jewishness did not know them. No wonder you never realised they are there in the Bible.

Jacob; Forget all the deceit the perpetrated against his own brother, through the help of his own mother! Wow, what a mother, favoring one son over an obviously obedient son! Then further deceit arosed while he was still on the run from his slighted brother.

Genesis 32;28, We read the following, so I need clear explanation from you. please don't be emotional.

Then the man said, 'Your name will no longer be jacob, but Israel, (Israel means he struggles with God.) because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.

Aburo, read some verses before and after this quoted verse, above. When I was in high school, in the days, the Bible i used pre 1970, what was written in it was (the one who fought with God). make your best research and find out.

About Moses: Exodus 20;19; and said to Moses, 'speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die.' Please make note that God speaks only to the prophets. Even stiff necked Children of israel, under Moses knew it. Where is Paul inthe line of true prophethood?

Exodus 33 ;18 Then Moses said,'Now show me your glory.'

34 ;1 (The new stone tablets) The Lord said to Moses, ;Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and i will write on them the words that were on the first tabkets, which you broke.'

Verse 4; So Moses chiseled out,



Exodus 34 ; 6: And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming 'the Lord, the lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness,,

Exodus 34 ;8; Moses bowed to the ground aat once and worshipped.


I just do nit see the reason to continue with this dialogue.

@olabowale,

olabowale:

@Pligrim.1: Omo de yi. O nfun mi ni wahala. Ko dara o. O je ki nlo ka bibeli. I am through doing that, long time. I already, by Allah's Mercy made her walked away from Christianity, at her old age of 80 and counting. Alhamdulillah.

It so happened that some jew called me just now and i asked him for the verses. Even he in his jewishness did not know them. No wonder you never realised they are there in the Bible.

Jacob; Forget all the deceit the perpetrated against his own brother, through the help of his own mother! Wow, what a mother, favoring one son over an obviously obedient son! Then further deceit arosed while he was still on the run from his slighted brother.

Genesis 32;28, We read the following, so I need clear explanation from you. please don't be emotional.

Then the man said, 'Your name will no longer be jacob, but Israel, (Israel means he struggles with God.) because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.

Aburo, read some verses before and after this quoted verse, above. When I was in high school, in the days, the Bible i used pre 1970, what was written in it was (the one who fought with God). make your best research and find out.

In all you have said, where did Jacob slap anybody?

olabowale:

About Moses: Exodus 20;19; and said to Moses, 'speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die.' Please make note that God speaks only to the prophets. Even stiff necked Children of israel, under Moses knew it. Where is Paul inthe line of true prophethood?

Exodus 33 ;18 Then Moses said,'Now show me your glory.'

34 ;1 (The new stone tablets) The Lord said to Moses, ;Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and i will write on them the words that were on the first tabkets, which you broke.'

Verse 4; So Moses chiseled out,



Exodus 34 ; 6: And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming 'the Lord, the lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness,,

Exodus 34 ;8; Moses bowed to the ground aat once and worshipped.

Ehen? Where did you read that Moses slapped anybody?

olabowale:

I just do nit see the reason to continue with this dialogue.

Kappish!

I've told you before: Muhammad's tales and "stories" are mere fabu - you can't defend them anywhere!!

Enjoy.

@olabowale,

I had simply wanted to leave the last post as it was; but one of my Muslim friends has inundated me with emails since I posted Muhammad's "story" of Moses slapping the angel of death. He was not happy that I infered that the angel was injured in his eye and 'scooted off' to complain to 'Allah'.

I apologise for the fellow who was seriously upset that I had infered the above without a quote or reference. In order to satiate his trouble mind, I'll oblige him the reference to clear the air that I was not insinuating unfounded ideas against Muhammad.

Here is the reference:

[list]
Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 23, Number 423:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The angel of death was sent to Moses and when he went to him, Moses slapped him severely, spoiling one of his eyes.

The angel went back to his Lord, and said, "You sent me to a slave who does not want to die." Allah restored his eye and said, "Go back and tell him (i.e. Moses) to place his hand over the back of an ox, for he will be allowed to live for a number of years equal to the number of hairs coming under his hand."

(So the angel came to him and told him the same). Then Moses asked, "O my Lord! What will be then?" He said, "Death will be then." He said, "(Let it be) now." He asked Allah that He bring him near the Sacred Land at a distance of a stone's throw. Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) said, "Were I there I would show you the grave of Moses by the way near the red sand hill."[/list]

There - I hope his troubled heart will be at rest now.

_{It amazes me how some people get so upset when they have not carefully considered the facts!}

olabowale:

Please make note that God speaks only to the prophets

I noted that - but again, 'Allah' did NOT speak to Muhammad!

@Pligrim.1: Omo de yi. Wa ha la e po ju. You do not even read your own question and then relate to the answers given. You asked me to sho you where Jacob fought God and where Moses saw God, both from your Bible. I showed it directly, from Genesis.

Read your questions again. For the very first time.

I never said Jacob slapped anyone. You quoted that Moses slapped the angel of death. I do not dispute it. I am a muslim. If Muhammad narates it, it is 100% accepted by be. I hear and I obey. Allah says in His Book; If you love Me, obey Muhammad. Allah will love you back. He will forgive you your sins and He will make your affairs straight. kalas.

Learn about Moses, his princely upbringing in the palace of Pharaoh. He was a younger brother to prophet Haruun, (as). Yet he had more authority than his older brother, in the eyes of the Israelites. If you know the culture of the middle eastern people, you will understand the issue better. You can not enter a home without being permitted. The angel of death, in a humanly form, entered the Home of Prophet Moses, without taking his permission. Moses, true to form, slapped him. Being a prophet, it was a test from his Lord. If you read the hadith through, you will see that the angel came in the first two times as a man. However, when Moses was told that that was angel of death, and that if he wanted to continue to live, he will be permitted.

All he had to do was to put his hand, and it was large hand, on the back of a camel, every strand of hair it covers represented a year. Moses asked: What will happen after i have spent all the years? The response was that he will die. He then said take me now and there was no need in Moses' eye to wait for the how ever many a centuary of years. That was such the love that these prophets have for meeting their God Allah the Almighty.

Everything that came out of Muhammad (as), is accepted by me. I do not need a proof. I agree with him 100%.


Speaking to Muhammad: Muhammad had a Night Journey, in body and soul, from makka to Jerusalem, that was the first leg of his journey. Then still in the same night took off, from Masjid Aqsa (contrary to what your guy, khaled of answering islam.com said, with his stupid logic, when he invaded my computer, unsolicited, in order to subtlely spew his ignorance), and ascended to heavens and ended up at the throne of Al Rahman, beyond the tree of the farthest lote. That was where he received the command of salah and the last 4 verses of Surah Baqarah. The tasha huud of salah is the praising of God by Muhammad, on this great occasion, and the respond of Allah Subhana wata hallah, to His Messenger prophet. You did not know that in the many years you were a muslim?

No wonder you left Islam. Wow. Aburo, pada. I will help you to understand Islam, if others abandone you.

olabowale:

Learn about Moses, his princely upbringing in the palace of Pharaoh. He was a younger brother to prophet Haruun, (as). Yet he had more authority than his older brother, in the eyes of the Israelites. If you know the culture of the middle eastern people, you will understand the issue better. You can not enter a home without being permitted. The angel of death, in a humanly form, entered the Home of Prophet Moses, without taking his permission. Moses, true to form, slapped him. Being a prophet, it was a test from his Lord. If you read the hadith through, you will see that the angel came in the first two times as a man. However, when Moses was told that that was angel of death, and that if he wanted to continue to live, he will be permitted.

they say arabian tales are very interesting. The one time the angel of death visited Egypt, it slew all the first born sons of the Egyptians . . . and your hadith records that Moses was slapping him about?
How do you slap a spirit? Why did Moses slap a spirit? Moses did not understand his Jewish heritage under the covenant of Jehovah until he was old enough to flee from Egypt . . . and you say he was busy slapping angels all through his childhood?
And none of these strange slapping incidents are recorded in the bible? Mohammed must have had a good sense of humor . . . how i can just see his followers laughing their heads off at such a ridiculous tale.

The funny thing is you say that slapping the angel of death was a "test from his Lord . . . being a prophet" . . . kapish alhaji! Moses was not called until after 40 yrs roaming around with Jethro's sheep in the land of Midian!

olabowale:

All he had to do was to put his hand, and it was large hand, on the back of a camel, every strand of hair it covers represented a year. Moses asked: What will happen after i have spent all the years? The response was that he will die. He then said take me now and there was no need in Moses' eye to wait for the how ever many a centuary of years. That was such the love that these prophets have for meeting their God Allah the Almighty.

Na wa o. . . how did you count the hairs on the back of a camel? How old was Moses when he died?
Moses's death was not foretold until the miracle of water gushing from the rock when God told him he would not go into the promised land for his disobedience. . . and here alhaji is talking about strands of hair on a camels back? Was the angel of death a juju priest?

@David: Read in the name of your Lord. Who taught by the pen. Who taught men did not know. Read again. You fail to read. Read dan it

olabowale:

@David: Read in the name of your Lord. Who taught by the pen. Who taught men did not know. Read again. You fail to read. Read dan it

and where did my post indicate that i did not read? Of course i read the bible . . . if you are asking me to read that book of meaningless poetry then forget it.

David, read my entry about Moses and the hairs on the back of the camel! I gave a question mark. He did not take the opportunity of the longer life, durrrrr! Come on, david. I love you, but you are wasting time in catching up. I know you can do better than that.

@Pligrim.1: I asked you for a full explanation of the three propphets who are being expected, by the children of Israel. You sent me on a wild goose chase. I went to your directed 'click here,' as directed. Well, I went there and poof, nothing. there is no explanation of the three personalities.


Please explain the personalities to us, here and now. Please. So you said Elijah is John the baptist, by mission. Even though John the baptist denied it. Okay, thats one. The second is Jesus, the massiah. Who is the third?

Aburo mi. So fun mi. I wanna know.