@Davidylan: What God said to Moses, from the burning bush onward. Is there any revelation in it. Even, all that God said to him, from that point onward as well. Up to the point that he died. Revelation or what?

olabowale:

@Davidylan: What God said to Moses, from the burning bush onward. Is there any revelation in it. Even, all that God said to him, from that point onward as well. Up to the point that he died. Revelation or what?

Alhaji . . . what do u understand by the word "revelation"? Just about anything present in the bible?
God walked with Adam in the garden of Eden . . . is that a "revelation" too?
God called Moses and spoke to him as a man would speak to His friend . . . is that a "revelation"? Revelation of what?

@Davidylan: Dan dave! You have to beg every question? Playing maradona about it? Come On! answer it david. You make me hungry. I need to eat to keep up with your dribbling showmanship!

Ore mi, if you can say with straight face that all are in the Torah, sabuur and Injiilare not really revelations, persee, I have your answer for you: Not all revelations, mean not all Words of God!

Man can not speak and attribute it to God! The secret is revealed: Extra, extra, read all about it. davidylan says that not all in the Bible is revelation as we expect!

David, I sent you a an email, did you get it? You are still my friend and brother. Even though, I flatly and completely disagree with you.


have a good night. For once, you spoke the truth. Its a big step. Onward marching _________ __________. Do you know the song? Its a chrustian war song. If you don't know it, I will sing it for you, especially the two words, I blipped out.

olabowale:

Ore mi, if you can say with straight face that all are in the Torah, sabuur and Injiilare not really revelations, persee, I have your answer for you: Not all revelations, mean not all Words of God!

alhaji, i am also tired and hungry no thanks to the fruitless and meaningless round about tactics you employ with struggling desperately to force islam into the bible. Mohammed and allah were the ones who claimed to have "revealed" the bible, Jesus Christ categorically asserted that He inspired Holy and sanctified men, by His spirit, to pen down the words of the bible for our examples.

The words of Christ is all that matters to me. allah can continue raving about "revelations" from now till next yr, i frankly dont care. Alhaji, spend more time understanding your fraud of a religion and stop wasting too much time trying to force allah's irresponsible and frankly fraudulent claims into the bible that arrived long before allah began his stint as just one of 360 idols of the kaaba.

olabowale:

David, I sent you a an email, did you get it? You are still my friend and brother. Even though, I flatly and completely disagree with you.

i saw ur email, i will respond when i gain some strength.

olabowale:

have a good night. For once, you spoke the truth. Its a big step. Onward marching _________ __________. Do you know the song? Its a chrustian war song. If you don't know it, I will sing it for you, especially the two words, I blipped out.

Onward Christian soldiers marching onto war.
Were are allah's slaves going? To hell as allah hath commanded in Surah 19:71?

@Davidylan: For a peaceful, noncombative religion, that advocates the turning of other cheek, taking off the shirt on your back, at the first request,, even it may may result to indecency and willingness to part with all your money, even if it may lead to abject poverty: the thought of and actually having a war song, like the one above, suggest complete hypocracy. Taking of shirt off your back, is easier said than done, especially, when the mindset is based on insatiable greed for acquisition of wealth. The act of enslaving the pupolace by the few financial elites who empower themselves by all the forms of usury, they engage in is completely opposite to what they make others believe.

One will be forced to ask, where is the truth, really? Maybe there are so many shades of grays!

This man,deceit na your middle name?

see the rest of the song
http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh575.sht

Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
with the cross of Jesus going on before.
Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe; forward into battle see his banners go!
Refrain:
Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
with the cross of Jesus going on before.

2. At the sign of triumph Satan's host doth flee;
on then, Christian soldiers, on to victory!
Hell's foundations quiver at the shout of praise;
brothers, lift your voices, loud your anthems raise.
(Refrain)

3. Like a mighty army moves the church of God;
brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod.
We are not divided, all one body we,
one in hope and doctrine, one in charity.
(Refrain)

4. Crowns and thrones may perish, kingdoms rise and wane,
but the church of Jesus constant will remain.
Gates of hell can never gainst that church prevail; we have Christ's own promise, and that cannot fail.
(Refrain)

5. Onward then, ye people, join our happy throng,
blend with ours your voices in the triumph song.
Glory, laud, and honor unto Christ the King,
this through countless ages men and angels sing.
(Refrain)


The only one that ought to be bothered by the lyrics of that song is Satan.
Olabowole,are you his spokesman or a part of his hosts?

@ Nwando thank you for pasting the entire hymn there. Obviously hypocrites, accomplished liars and mini-accusers of the brethren like Olabowale thought the song was being reserved for world war III.

Maybe US soldiers where singing it on their way to Iraq in alhaji's dream.

2. At the sign of triumph Satan's host doth flee;
on then, Christian soldiers, on to victory!
Hell's foundations quiver at the shout of praise;
brothers, lift your voices, loud your anthems raise.
(Refrain)

alhaji, maybe you can tell us if "Satan's host" here refers to the Iraqi army. Remind me, which army goes to war with shouts of praise? The Nigerian mechanised brigade?

@David

Combatant . . . you can't use the quran to judge the Holy Scriptures. The quran did not appear until more than 4000 years after Moses penned down the torah.

Quran is being used to judge the Bible because it is the last book and I gave you verses butressing my point. Quran was revealed to clear and enlighten you on distortion of the bible which has been undeniable facts

You are here claiming that Moses penned down the Torah when you yourself in one of the thread I read claimed that it was completed by Joshua .

You can now see your confusion .

A word is enough for the wise

Have a lovely day.

@Nwando and Davidylan: Aa udhu bilahi miinaa shaitaanir rajiim, Bismillahir rRahmanir rRahiim. I seek refuge in Allah, from the devil, the acursed, In the name of Allah, Most Beneficient, Most Merciful. This I say countless of times, daily. Even if I am about to sleep with my wife, when I yawn, entering the bathroom which I lead in, with my left foot. This is from Qur'an and also from the sunnah. (A fulfillment of leading to all things. None of which Jesus taught before he was lifted up to heaven.) How can I deceive or from the croud that support saitan or there is something about evil in any of my many names. Of course, I am a muslim and I have a muslim name. Then I am a Yoruba man. The Yorubas have a tradition of given many names to their children. In all the names, you will see a theme of ola running through. My muslim name was from the the family of my noble prophet Muhammad. I am named after his banker Uncle.

I only played you, to simply remind you that you have a war song. And from ages christianity have warred, within and with others. You can claim meekness. But we know thats only a facade. Your blood percolates with feud and always itching for wars and mayhem. You are many tongues. Truth is not part of your core mantra.

@Nwando and Davidylan, et al: In that your great song, there is nothing perceive about it, as to indicate that it is not for combat/hand to hand fight/dropping of bombs and ammos on people, innocent or otherwise. Did the Crusaders also sang this song, to victory, in the slaughter of Muslims, men and women, young and aged? infact it connotes aggressions and advancements of frontiers and war enterprising.

Where is mercy expressed in this song? I asked, by my expressed opinion about three things, you only responded, very anemically to one, about the song. What happens to the cloth of your back and empty your pocket for the little guy, without asking for anything? All of these are impossible and can not be truly defined and defended by any of you. They are only a charade. A facade for which you disingenuously gain converts!

Its in the same pattern of the 1 God, but truly 3 gods in 1 God! Which is why Jesus could die off, even though, reluctantly so, because he cried to ask why he as God forsook himself as a father God, while the ghost God did not do anything as the son God was even hoping for intervention! Wow!

I need better explanations which can answer my questions. Can any of the women or men gave up their garments, right there an then when asked, even thought they may be stripped naked? Can the Christians stop consuming interests, either as a lender or borrower, etc?

Sometimes ago, I spoke about the same subject matter of turning the other cheek. A disingenuous man said that he may surprise me that he will let me slap him on the other cheek also. He should not deceive himself, to project such an imagine. First he should asked our learned Doctors about the agony of excruciating pain. If he is so foolish as to want me to slap him, however I desire, he might as well prepare his own burial, before I do it. That will be his last heroic gesture! He knows full well, that he can not do it, unless he will yelp in the same way, my God, my God, why has though forsaken me.

combatant:

Quran is being used to judge the Bible because it is the last book and I gave you verses butressing my point. Quran was revealed to clear and enlighten you on distortion of the bible which has been undeniable facts

The quran is the last book of what? The sango worshippers can also wake up tomorrow and claim their book was "revealed" as the last book. . . does that make their claim legitimate?
The God of the bible didnt tell us we were to wait for another book . . . mohammed simply used that lie to legitimise his fraud and to entice the jews to his fold. How does the quran enlighten us? Infact while christians dont care about the quran, muslims are feverishly struggling to insert mohammed into the pages of the bible.

combatant:

You are here claiming that Moses penned down the Torah when you yourself in one of the thread I read claimed that it was completed by Joshua .

What is confusing here? Moses wrote the torah which was completed by joshua. joshua simply completed the last 2-3 chapters of deuteronomy.

olabowale:

I only played you, to simply remind you that you have a war song. And from ages christianity have warred, within and with others. You can claim meekness. But we know thats only a facade. Your blood percolates with feud and always itching for wars and mayhem. You are many tongues. Truth is not part of your core mantra.

Sir, you are of your father the devil. Lying and misrepresentation of facts seems to be your forte.
Look at that song again . . . . the "wars" in question are spiritual wars and not physical. Maybe this would open your blind eyes:

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

2 Corinthians 10:4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

Ephesians 6: 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Alhaji, does a modern physical army of war use the bible as a sword of war? You continue to dig urself deeper into your delusions with ur desperate attempts to literarily and islamically interprete the bible just to drag it to the muddy level of the quran.

@Davidylan: You mean the devil is a Yoruba man? Is he still alive? My father died in 1966. may his soul rest in perfect peace. He was not evil nor a devil while he was alive. I seek refuge in Allah, from the devil the acursed.

Your statement is from your own interest. Not mine.

I simply asked you, if the CRUSADERS used the same song. What circa is that song, anyway?

olabowale:

I simply asked you, if the CRUSADERS used the same song. What circa is that song, anyway?

How would the crusaders have used the song? Did they drive out the invading hordes of islam with shouts of praise?

@Davidylan: Google to the christian missionary atrocities, be it in Iraq, Afghanistan, or other lands. Maybe, you will tell me a diffrent story, about the bible and wars!

@Davidylan: You are too much. You get angry so quickly! Wow. How are you going to deal with your patients with this kind of raging inferno? Omo mi, pele. you still have to tell me what songs did the Crusaders used, in there several campaign to the holyland?

olabowale:

@Davidylan: Google to the christian missionary atrocities, be it in Iraq, Afghanistan, or other lands. Maybe, you will tell me a diffrent story, about the bible and wars!

tell me something alhaji, christian missionaries are at war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Who would hae known, thanks for telling us.
You seem incapable of speaking the truth.

olabowale:

@Nwando and Davidylan, et al: In that your great song, there is nothing perceive about it, as to indicate that it is not for combat/hand to hand fight/dropping of bombs and ammos on people, innocent or otherwise. Did the Crusaders also sang this song, to victory, in the slaughter of Muslims, men and women, young and aged? infact it connotes aggressions and advancements of frontiers and war enterprising.

Where is mercy expressed in this song? I asked, by my expressed opinion about three things, you only responded, very anemically to one, about the song. What happens to the cloth of your back and empty your pocket for the little guy, without asking for anything? All of these are impossible and can not be truly defined and defended by any of you. They are only a charade. A facade for which you disingenuously gain converts!

Its in the same pattern of the 1 God, but truly 3 gods in 1 God! Which is why Jesus could die off, even though, reluctantly so, because he cried to ask why he as God forsook himself as a father God, while the ghost God did not do anything as the son God was even hoping for intervention! Wow!

I need better explanations which can answer my questions. Can any of the women or men gave up their garments, right there an then when asked, even thought they may be stripped naked? Can the Christians stop consuming interests, either as a lender or borrower, etc?

Sometimes ago, I spoke about the same subject matter of turning the other cheek. A disingenuous man said that he may surprise me that he will let me slap him on the other cheek also. He should not deceive himself, to project such an imagine. First he should asked our learned Doctors about the agony of excruciating pain. If he is so foolish as to want me to slap him, however I desire, he might as well prepare his own burial, before I do it. That will be his last heroic gesture! He knows full well, that he can not do it, unless he will yelp in the same way, my God, my God, why has though forsaken me.

You do need help.
Are you unable to read and comprehend?

Is it too much to ask a Muslim to be truthful?
Amadioha worshippers can swear to the truth
Are deceit and lies the bedrock of Islam.

You have read through the whole song I pasted and yet cannot figure out it has nothing to do with physical waring?
Do you want Chrstians to apologise to you for the crusades yet Mohammed bears no fault for pillaging and capturing innocent girls for sexual pleasure?
The crusades were not unprovoked,read the history ,not what the lying Muslims tout as the truth.
And how did the crusades enter this discussion if not to divert attention from issues.

nwando:

You have read through the whole song I pasted and yet cannot figure out it has nothing to do with physical waring?
Do you want Chrstians to apologise to you for the crusades yet Muhammad bears no fault for pillaging and capturing innocent girls for sexual pleasure?
The crusades were not unprovoked,read the history ,not what the lying Muslims tout as the truth.
And how did the crusades enter this discussion if not to divert attention from issues.

Even the constant drivel about the crusaders is inherently dishonest. Muslims conveniently forget to tell us that the crusades were merely the European (who just happened to be predominantly christian) response to recapturing their lands that had fallen to the hordes of allah.

If not for the crusades . . . Spain and others would be no different from Arab north Africa today.

@Davidylan: Crusades are from Christians Europeans, primarily championed by French people. It has nothing to do with the presence of the Arabs in spain. Infact, it is after spanish inquisitions. Further, it is only and exclusively to Jerusalem. Jerusalem is not in Europe and it is not a European land. Sir, you are bending the truth. I could have called you a fiction teller in clearly a 4 letter word, but I do not want you to develop hypertensive symptoms or bust some gaskets. David, I could sometimes be very reasonable. I hope am not teasing you. For sure I don't wanna drive you up a cliff.


Try to relax. Paddy mi ni e. I know with a wink that Nwando's song is not about physical warring. You feel me, blood? Bruder men, huh?

@olabowale,

olabowale:

@Davidylan: Crusades are from Christians Europeans, primarily championed by French people. It has nothing to do with the presence of the Arabs in spain. Infact, it is after spanish inquisitions. Further, it is only and exclusively to Jerusalem. Jerusalem is not in Europe and it is not a European land. Sir, you are bending the truth. I could have called you a fiction teller in clearly a 4 letter word, but I do not want you to develop hypertensive symptoms or bust some gaskets. David, I could sometimes be very reasonable. I hope am not teasing you. For sure I don't want to drive you up a cliff.

I'm being quite entertained by your duplicity and abolute estrangement from truth. Please keep the bloviates coming just to magnify the point.

Muslims often scramble for excuses to "prove" their misgivings. Where was the "Onward Christian Soldier" hymn inspired by a "Christian JIHAD"?

~ when you claim that "Christian missionaries" went to war in Iraq, I staggered with such laughter. Even when that is a classic cacophony that you have not been able to simply substantiate, let me ask: What have the Muslims been chanting when they go on suicide bombing missions? [tsk-tsk! Hint: Allahu _ _ _ _ _ (complete am!) ]

~ when "Allah's" footsoldiers and errand boys slit the throats of those whom they abducted, what has been their glorious chant/song? [tsk-tsk again: Hint: Allahu _ _ _ _ _ (complete am!) ]

~ what has been the number 1 chant/song on Muslim lips when they carry placards as shown below?










@olabowale, you sidon there dey blow professional lies - and you have conveniently looked away from the chants of your own brethren who are following Muhammad's footsteps. Try well-well.

@combatant,

Lol. . . unless you have a profound difficulty in grasping simple English, you only managed once again to show how sorry Muslim intelligence could be.

combatant:

You are getting yourself confused.

Still confusing yourself.

Same as above.

What was confusing you in the direct quotes I posted from your Qur'an? I'm not the author of the Qur'an; and if quoting directly from its pages gets you cross-eyed, it would have been better to consult with the writers of the Qur'an than pretend to read confusion into my repostes.

combatant:

Having read your above quotation, Muslims believe that Allah gave Moses a revelation which he used in guiding the Israelite but after his demise, the scripture was distorted and couldnt be said to be same as the one given to Moses.

I'm not worried whatever Muslims 'believe'. The foregoing discussions I've held with you guys on that very subject has clearly demonstrated the fallacy and duplicity in your assumption; and not one Muslim to date has proffered seasoned answers to the simple questions I left thereto.

The Qur'an states that 'Allah' revealed the Torah and the Injil - that is a fact written in your Qur'an. Also, 'Allah' claims that nobody could alter, change or distort 'Allah's word'. If therefore the Torah and Injil were revealed by 'Allah', and Muslims today claim that they have been distorted, they are effectively saying that the Qur'an was either lying or Muhammad's 'Allah' was contradicting himself.

The basic exercise for you would be to find out if the Qur'an was speaking the truth about 'Allah' being the "revealer" of the Torah and Injil. if 'Allah' did not reveal the Torah and Injil, Muhammad was boldly selling a lie to Muslims - and they bought it wholesale. If you rather believe that 'Allah' is the "revealer" of the Torah and Injil, then stating that those documents have been corrupted or distorted is effectively saying that 'Allah' could not keep his word, and such a allegations of 'distortion' against the Torah and Injil are tantamount to a direct contradiction of claims of 'Allah' that nobody can alter his word.

Two self-contradictory facts we find in the Qur'an on this issue:

(a) the Qur'an states that nobody can alter the word of 'Allah':

~ there is none to change the words of Allah (Sura 6:34)
~ There is none who can change His words (Sura 18:27)
~ My word shall not be changed (Sura 50:29)

(b) on the contrary, the word of 'Allah' has been ALTERED:

~ Sura 2 v 75

~ a party of them hear the Word of ALLAH, then PERVERTED it
[Sher Ali's tr.]

~a party from among them indeed used to hear the Word of Allah,
then ALTERED it
[Shakir's tr.]

From the foregoing, there are only two possible outcomes that we could infer:

[list]1. If 'Allah' has revealed the Torah and Injil, then they also are the "word of Allah" - and according to Sura 6:34; 18:27; & 50:29, nobody can alter, distort, pervert or change the "word of Allah".

2. If on the other hand the "word of Allah" (Torah and Injil) have been 'distorted' according to Sura 2:75, then the Qur'an is either a huge contradiction in itself, or Muhammad was simply confusing and contradicting himself while claiming he was being inspired in the Qur'an .[/list]

There are so many self-contradictory declarations in the Qur'an manufactured by Muhammad who says two opposite things and pretends they are one - so that Muslims can find it easy enough to accuse the Bible of having been altered, distorted, corrupt or "lost". It doesn't matter what Muslims 'believe' as long as these self-contradictory statements still stand in the Qur'an.

You would have to make up your mind about whether or not 'Allah' revealed the Qur'an: and if the Torah and Injil were revealed by the same 'Allah', what was he doing to have let anyone corrupt "his own" revelations which he gave to others (Jews and Christians), but found it convenient to claim that nobody can distort the Qur'an which he gave to the Arabs?

@combatant,

combatant:

Let me start from the bible but before I start, can you please beat your chest to it that the OT is the same as the revelation given to Moses?

I don't need to beat my chest about anything. 'Allah' has never claimed that he gave another "OT", and your dubious attempt to claim otherwise will not wash it.

combatant:

Let me start from your bible to see if the scripture is still in its orginal form

Jeremiah 8 v 8: How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

Lol. . . the same you combatant are a coward! How many times have we addressed the issue of Jeremiah 8:8? After hiding behind that verse as your excuse in yet another thread, davidylan and I took time to address your misgivings thereto - and you only scooted away from that thread to resurface here again with the same illiterate proposal. Just incase we missed it, could you show us where you made any attempt to reply our rejoinders concerning that verse? Yet, it has become the "Muslim trademark®" to duck answers from some threads and then seek to litter other threads with the same otiose drivels.

Here are the threads where we have dealt with the issue of Jeremiah 8:8 --

davidylan's:
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-53890.96.html#msg1682058)

pilgrim.1's:
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-53890.96.html#msg1684058)

Your duplicity is hardly a surrprise, and that is why you're pretending this issue has not been addressed earlier!

@combatant,

Just incase you'd come back claiming that you have been to those threads and connot find our answers to your worries on Jeremiah 8:8, I've tried to help you by reposting them here again:

---

Rejoinder from davidylan:

combatant:

Jeremaiah 8 v 8: How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

RSV: How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

Muslims have tenously held unto this verse as their proof that the bible is corrupted . . . unfortunately that verse was not refering to corruption of the bible at all. Jeremiah 8 talks about God pouring His judgement on the children of Isreal who had left the worship of the true God to follow the idols of their neighbours. That judgement was fulfilled when Babylon overthrew the land of Isreal and took them into slavery and exile for 70yrs! Part of this is recorded in the book of Daniel.

Look at verse 9: The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?

notice that verse 8 conspicously does not tell us what the pen of the scribes was writing . . . certainly if it had been the "word of the Lord" it would have been clearly indicated as it is in verse 9. David wrote the book of psalms . . . he did not require scribes to help him ditto for solomon and the earlier prophets.

When Solomon rededicated the temple . . . the children of Isreal read from the words of the Lord . . . if the pen of the scribes had corrupted it God would not have accepted their reading, sacrifice and dedication of the temple.

After the rebuilding of the temple . . . years after the events prophesied in Jeremiah 8 had taken place (even Jeremiah himself had died), Ezra read from the VERY SAME WORD OF THE LORD as he dedicated the temple to God . . . if the pen of the scribes had corrupted it, they would not have bothered to read it as an act of worship.

Muslims have perfected the art of grabbing just one verse from the scriptures and building an entire religion on it. Do likewise to the quran and they start bleating "context"!

---

Rejoinder from pilgrim.1:

combatant:

Jeremaiah 8 v 8: How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

RSV: How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

This is why I so appreciate davidylan'[/b]s response to your complaints about Jeremiah 8 v 8. First, it is evident that the Torah was still preserved in its authentic form long after Jeremiah's time.

For instance, John the Baptist (Yahya) was born long after Jeremiah had died. But Allah says concerning the same John (Yahya): "O Yahya (John)! Hold fast [b]the Scripture [the Taurat (Torah)]" (Qur'an 19:12). Why would 'Allah' be asking John (Yahya) who was born centuries after Jeremiah to "hold fast" the same Torah if it already had been corrupted centuries before John was born? Was 'Allah' asking Yahya to "hold fast" to a "corrupt" Torah - is that how 'Allah' operates in Islam?

Second, in Muhammad's day the Qur'an reveals that the Jews actually had the Torah - where it is said that Allah's decision was still contained in it:

But how do they come to you for decision
while they have the Taurat (torah),
in which is the (plain) Decision of Allah;
yet even after that, they turn away. For they are not (really) believers.
(سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter 5, Verse 43)

The excuse that Muslims hold unto in Jeremiah 8:8 is of no consequence at all because you guys continue to be confused about the incoherence of Muhammad's own ideas in the Qur'an.

- - - - - - - - -

My dear combatant, we're familiar with fact that Muslims are complete strangers to truth - and that is why you keep repeating yourself endlessly on the same thing and then scooting off from thread to thread in pretence of not having seen the rejoinders addressing you bloviates on Jeremiah 8:8. You very much remind me of babs787 - for such is his hallmark! Unless you want to prove that your case is beyond remdemption, please keep exhibiting the same fraud that you are, and let's celebrate therefrom that Islam is a huge hogwash!

That is why I would rather not humour your hypocrisy any further by trying to repeat myself on the same thing. However, you could visit the following link: (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-53890.96.html#msg1684081) where I left a summary of the various instances where the rest of your misery have been addressed.

@Pilgrim.1: Please tell us, what did the false pen of the scribes into a lie?

Before you talk about anything in the Qur'an, you have to go to what Muhammad said about the thing. Qur'an was not revealed to you and to borrow from kate senator Lloyd Benson to Danfort Quail during the VP debate, many seasons ago; My dear Pilgrim.1, I know Muhammad, he is my propphet. You my girl, you are no Muhammad!

@olabowale,

olabowale:

@Pilgrim.1: Please tell us, what did the false pen of the scribes into a lie?

Lol. . . don't weep over the hypocrisy of Muslims who have tried to excuse their accusations on Jeremiah 8:8. The point is that the Scriptures were NOT distorted even though some scribes had tried to misrepresent them. They question is: did they succeed? And the simple answer is: NO.

Long after the prophet Jeremiah had died, the Torah was still known among God's people in its purity. That is why God often encouraged the remnant godly Jews by referring them to the same Torah that He had given them through Moses! God could not have been encouraging these godly people to observe a "corrupt" or "distorted" Torah if at all it was no longer in its purity. An example is found in Malachi 4:2-4, where God spoke lovingly to the godly Jews:

[list]But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.[/list]

Now, how could God be asking them to "remember" something if it was no longer existing ("lost" right from the days of Jeremiah?!? How could He even be asking them to "remember" the law of Moses if the said Torah has been "distorted" - would He be asking them to remember a "distorted" Torah after Jeremiah's day?

Let me illustrate it for you:

There are so many documents that some people have tried to forge and thus misrepresent them. The forgeries and misrepresentations do not at all distort the original documents - and when the forgeries where discovered, the culprits were apprehended - but the original documents continued to enjoy wider circulation.

That is precisely what Jeremiah was pointing to. Unfortunately, Muhammad pretended to have been receiving revelations from"Allah" and then claimed that the Torah and Injil had been corrupted! That is why when the Jews question Muhammad about the Spirit, the Quraish prophet ducked the question hypocritically and said that nobody knows anything about Him!

Meanwhile, I've asked you guys to reconcile the contradictions of 'Allah' claiming that nobody can alter what he has revealed (Sura 6:34) and the fact that the same Qur'an says that "the word of ALLAH has been ALTERED" (Sura 2 v 75) - have you tried to share on that huge contradiction in your Qur'an?

olabowale:

Before you talk about anything in the Qur'an, you have to go to what Muhammad said about the thing.

I would rather go to God who has revealed His WORD than go to Muhammad for his inconsistencies.

olabowale:

Qur'an was not revealed to you and to borrow from kate senator Lloyd Benson to Danfort Quail during the VP debate, many seasons ago; My dear Pilgrim.1, I know Muhammad, he is my propphet. You my girl, you are no Muhammad!

I never claimed that the Qur'an was revealed to me; nor have I claimed that pilgrim.1 was Muhammad! I don't see how your frantic drama of borrowing bloviates from others are actually proffering any answers to the core issues here!

@Pilgrim.1: Stop baby, stop. I simply asked you to tell us, in your own view, what exactly did the false pen write, which is a lie. It is in your Bible. The Jeremiah, you are quick to quote. Yet, in all that you wrote, I found 0% of it addressing my question. Here is your problem, which you can not see, because your heart is not accepting the truth: Jeremiah says that the false pen has played a part in something, you need to ponder what that something is.

For me, it appears in your Bible and God Almighty confirms it in the Qur'an. That is enough. Not that I needed jeremiah of the Bible to validate what's in the Qur'an. But it makes my heart strong on that verse in the Qur'an! If I look further, I see, Paul and the other remnants, in the NT writing above and on top of where Jesus left it. Unfortunately, I have asked if david, Nwando and othersof the christian community, and now you, what does it mean when it is stated that Jesus went about preaching the Gospel? Was he preaching a true message of revelation, which is recorded in the Bible's NT? Or was he preaching the Gospel as you have it in the NT? Please fall into my trap, because I have already laid it and cover it with beautiful camouflage; as you have the Gospels in the Bible, it is only Jesus' life story. Thats what Davidylan said and I concurred with him. But Jesus was an arrogant man or a false prophet. So on one hand, he could not have preached his own life story, and he could not have preached anything opposite and disagreeing to what the Old prophets, say Mosess preached.

For you to even have an argument, you will have to research and locate, the Torah of the time that Jeremaiah penned this famous verse, that you can not explain its inference/what makes it come about. You will also do us a greater favor to get for us, the Torah of John the Baptist era, for a closer examination. These two, as example will be compared with each other. If we find them to be exactly alike, we will compare it with a Bible of a later generation, say at the time of Paul entry to Christianity. Further we will have to compare all of the present versions and revisions Bibles that we have today with our control/model copy from the old times, mentioned above. This is your assignment. Until then, your argument is baseless.

You should not forget that in muslim thread, what did you learn recently title, we have an ancient Qur'an. Go and look at it and then go back 600 years before this Qur'an, and get me an Injiil that we can use to compare with the skiddishness of the Bible of today. We even know of older Qur'an, a mere 19 years after the death of Prophet Muhammad. Can you you get for us, an Injiil 19 years after the ascension of Jesus? Then use the same methodology to fish out a Torah and sabuur. If you wish, you can take up this assignment, after your finals are taken care of. At least you will not be thinking about academics so that much. I will wait.

Your explanation of Jeremiah's famous verse is your own subjective opinion. I understand you, but its unacceptable to me, from a clearly religious point of clarity. From your logic, you could not tell us that Jeremiah gave the explanation that you provided. Infact there is not record of jeremiah explaining anything. No prophet of the bani Israel, children of israel explained any verse or revelation. Jesus did not explain anything either. If these great men left things unexplained, you can never be the one who will expalinit to us. That responsibility falls squarely on the Comforter. My dear sister, you are not the comforter and none of the preachers of christendom is the Comforter.

Surprisingly, you are confusing the Soul, in man with spirit in the Qur'an. Let me tell you; The spirit of truth or spirit in Qur'an, is Malaika Jibriil/Angel gabrael. Muhammad met him, throughout his 23 years as a prophet. I will not even go to when he was a little boy with halima, his wet nurse, in the episode where his heart was first washed and Iman/belief was put in it. You should know that Angel Gabrael wad was acquinted with Muhammad.

What the Jews asked Muhammad was about the Soul; the second element that makes us human. The Body and soul should be familiar to you. He answered them, because it was a test of his prophethood; The complete information is with Allah alone, and what was told to me is very little. He never said nothing was told to him. He proved it by sayibg to the makkan deads at the battle of Badr, the first war that the Muslims, under Muhammad fought. He said to Abu Jahal (Lana tullahi ala kafiriin), that if he has seen what Allah has prepared for him? This is fire and torment! The companions asked him, why are you talking to the dead, when they can not hear you?

He said to them, they can hear, just as much as you can hear me now! Such is the immense knowledged of God impacted on this humble prophet. So that I remind you of a good reminder, Allah says in the Qur'an, about the action of Muhammad, throwing a hand full of sand into the dirsection of the makkans, at the battle field, even before the first charge, from either side. Allah said that HE throw the sand, and it was not Muhammad that throw it!

This goes to show, that Allah performs miracles directly, but through HIS prophets, who are human, as a sign of their Human prophethood! No wonder Jesus said that I can not do any thing out of my own power. But the One who sent me dies all these Miracles, through me. (The language is mine here and I do not want any of you to cry foul, but the idea is correct).

@olabowale,

olabowale:

@Pilgrim.1: Stop baby, stop. I simply asked you to tell us, in your own view, what exactly did the false pen write, which is a lie. It is in your Bible. The Jeremiah, you are quick to quote. Yet, in all that you wrote, I found 0% of it addressing my question. Here is your problem, which you can not see, because your heart is not accepting the truth: Jeremiah says that the false pen has played a part in something, you need to ponder what that something is.

Please sir, illiteracy is not a virtue. The false pen of the scribes did not write the Torah nor did they produce any part of the Biblical texts. I offered you reasonable answers with illustrations; but you're so predicatble to have come back confusing yourself further. Where did you read that the Torah was given by the scribes?

olabowale:

For me, it appears in your Bible and God Almighty confirms it in the Qur'an.

God Almighty did not confirm Muhammad's pretended "revelations" - and I have demonstrated well enough to show the inconsistencies in the Qur'an on this issue. WHERE have you guys tried to reconcile those inconsistencies? How could 'Allah' be making a claim that nobody can alter his word (Sura 6:34; 18:27; & 50:29), and yet at the same time state in the same Qur'an that "the word of Allah" was altered (Sura 2:75)?!? Do you guys have a special talent for being hypocritical?

olabowale:

That is enough. Not that I needed jeremiah of the Bible to validate what's in the Qur'an. But it makes my heart strong on that verse in the Qur'an!

Rubbish. Nobody needed the Qur'an to validate what is in the Bible, even though Muhammad declared that the Qur'an was given to confirm what was written in the Torah, the Injil, and all the other Scriptures (Sura 5:48)!!

olabowale:

If I look further, I see, Paul and the other remnants, in the NT writing above and on top of where Jesus left it. Unfortunately, I have asked if david, Nwando and othersof the christian community, and now you, what does it mean when it is stated that Jesus went about preaching the Gospel? Was he preaching a true message of revelation, which is recorded in the Bible's NT? Or was he preaching the Gospel as you have it in the NT?

Lol. . . you're sounding ever so confused from your hatred of Paul. Did Muhammad claim that Jesus was the writer of the Gospel for you to assert that bloviate of "where Jesus left it"? Muhammad was a false prophet, no doubt about that - because he claimed things that are openly false and dubiously asserted that they were "revelations" from 'Allah'. The Gospel was not "given" by 'Allah' as a book sent from heaven! That was Muhammad's blind Quraish prevarication, as he also claimed concerning the Torah.

Your argument is a waste because you're only making otiose noise about the 'Gospels' here and have failed to ask yourself if Muhammad knew the content of that Gospel. Yet, in Muhammad's day the Gospels were well known - and even your Hadith mentioned the fact that Muhammad had been instructed by Waraqa (Khadija's cousin) who was a Christian convert and "used to write of the Gospels in Arabic as much as Allah wished him to write" (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 9, Bk. 87, Num. 111). Was "Allah" wishing Waraqa to corrupt, alter and distort the Gospels?

Jesus went about preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God (Matt. 4:23) - which we find recorded for us in the NT. Paul was not the writer of the Gospels, though he referred to the accounts of that same Gospel in his epistles to instruct Christian believers in the Church (1 Cor. 15:1-3). Don't let your seething hatred of Paul which you inherited from Muhammad's inconsistencies lead you away from sound and balanced reasoning.

@olabowale,

olabowale:

Please fall into my trap, because I have already laid it and cover it with beautiful camouflage; as you have the Gospels in the Bible, it is only Jesus' life story. Thats what Davidylan said and I concurred with him.

Abeg shoosh, make I hear word! Which "trap" have you laid when you've been falling all over and entangling yourself with your discombobulation and stupefaction?

The Gospels in the Bible are not merely "only Jesus life story". Beyond that, they reveal to us the following:

~ Biblical prophecies concerning the Church (Matthew 16 and 18)

~ prophecies and parables of the end of the age (Matthew 24-25)

~ principles of Kingdom life (Matthew 5 to 8)

~ the mysteries of the Kingdom (Matthew 20 to 22)

~ the Judgement of the world (Mark 9:43-50)

~ and the revelation of the Father's and His divine love (John's Gospel).

Not only was Muhammad ignorant of these matters in the Gospels; but he went on to categorically DENY them while claiming to know Jesus as the Messiah (the Christ)! No wonder you guys have been at pains to deny the Bible as much as you possibly can; but so far you seem to be achieving more confirmation of the Muslim hypocrisy and fraud that has become second nature to the ummah.

olabowale:

But Jesus was an arrogant man or a false prophet.

Is that what your Qur'an and Hadith teaches you? You see how you're the one slitting your throat and crying at the same time! Where did Muhammad teach you the hypocritical lie you posted there?

olabowale:

So on one hand, he could not have preached his own life story, and he could not have preached anything opposite and disagreeing to what the Old prophets, say Mosess preached

I'm quite entertained by your duplicity here, lol. Indeed Christ preached and taught about Himself so that we may know exactly who He was - the Son of God (John 10:36). Beyond that, He also preached and taught about other issues (as already highlighted above). He further established His claims and teaching by the powerful miracles He wrought (and not even Muhammad could deny that!). Above all, He demonstrated His power to save - and thus confirmed indeed that He IS the Messiah (again, Muhammad could not deny that!).

If indeed Jesus authenticated His ministry by word, miracles, and lifestyle to demonstrate that He was who He said He was, where is the "arrogance" or "false rpophet" with which you accused him? Further, your shameless lies are nowhere taught in the Qur'an, because not even Muhammad in his false assertions ever referred to Jesus as "arrogant" or a "false prophet"! You're only forcing yourself to make allegations from your hideous hypocrisy - and we should not be surprised at all.

olabowale:

For you to even have an argument, you will have to research and locate, the Torah of the time that Jeremaiah penned this famous verse, that you can not explain its inference/what makes it come about.

Lol, wake up dreamer - I already explained your nightmare about Jeremiah 8:8 - see:
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-80120.160.html#msg1692257)

olabowale:

You will also do us a greater favor to get for us, the Torah of John the Baptist era, for a closer examination. These two, as example will be compared with each other. If we find them to be exactly alike, we will compare it with a Bible of a later generation, say at the time of Paul entry to Christianity.

Haha. .  you must be one desperately confused fellow. The "Torah of John the Baptist's era" was no different than the one which has been in existence right up to the present day. There have never been TWO Torah(s) - and it is ridiculously dense Muslims who have asserted that they were "lost", and yet for all that, they have not been able to explicate HOW and WHEN! Now, you're asking me to clean up your mess after you? Sorry, wallow in your confusion as much as pleases you.

@olabowale,

olabowale:

Further we will have to compare all of the present versions and revisions Bibles that we have today with our control/model copy from the old times, mentioned above. This is your assignment. Until then, your argument is baseless

I see. If my arguments have been baseless, why have you been losing sleep over them and offering empty orates to exposed your hypocrisy all along? You're desperately clutching at straws - for not in one instance have you been able to refer me to any verse I quoted from the Bible where you don't find it in any other version.

Besides, how many "versions" of the Qur'an are now in the market that Muslims are still confusing themselves over? Aside the fact that the Qur'an is rife with Muhammad's professionally inconsistent orates, we have continued to ask simple questions that point out where Muslims scratch their heads and are dumb.

First, YOU olabowale has quoted some cough-sounding words from your Qur'an and asserted that nobody knows their meaning - despite the fact that 'Allah' says that the Qur'an is a book that is FULLY explained in DETAIL! For more than 15 centuries and all the boasted "science" of the Qur'an and Hadiths, no Muslim scholar has been able to produce a coherent meaning of those meaningless words! You only attempt was to produce yet another inconsistent verse to demonstrate Muhammad's fallacies that the Qur'an was only explaining the 'relevant parts'. You're simply a laugh and a waste when it comes to explicating your own drivels!

Second, we have already referred to the Hadiths that clealy state that a particular verse was cancelled from the Qur'an:

Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Book 52, Num. 69:
Narrated Anas bin Malik: For thirty days Allah's Apostle invoked Allah
to curse those who had killed the companions of Bir-Mauna; he invoked
evil upon the tribes of Ral, Dhakwan, and Usaiya who disobeyed Allah
and His Apostle. There was reveled about those who were killed at
Bir-Mauna a Quranic Verse we used to recite, but it was cancelled
later on. The Verse was:

"Inform our people that we have met our Lord. He is pleased with us
and He has made us pleased"

There are other Islamic sources that clearly enunciate the fact that the Qur'an which Muslims pride themselves on today is actually the product of the political redaction of the third Caliph Uthman - which indeed differed from other codices of the Qur'an known in Muhammad's day.

olabowale:

You should not forget that in muslim thread, what did you learn recently title, we have an ancient Qur'an. Go and look at it and then go back 600 years before this Qur'an, and get me an Injiil that we can use to compare with the skiddishness of the Bible of today. We even know of older Qur'an, a mere 19 years after the death of Prophet Muhammad. Can you you get for us, an Injiil 19 years after the ascension of Jesus? Then use the same methodology to fish out a Torah and sabuur. If you wish, you can take up this assignment, after your finals are taken care of. At least you will not be thinking about academics so that much. I will wait.

Lol. . . dreamer, you don't have to wait 19 years to discover that your Qur'an was edited as to cancel verses from it before the codices you're playing 'convenient Alice' upon. One example has been cited (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Book 52, Num. 69) as above - and perhaps you could use your own methodoly to fish out the missing verse from the Qur'an!

@olabowale,

olabowale:

Your explanation of Jeremiah's famous verse is your own subjective opinion. I understand you, but its unacceptable to me, from a clearly religious point of clarity. From your logic, you could not tell us that Jeremiah gave the explanation that you provided. Infact there is not record of jeremiah explaining anything. No prophet of the bani Israel, children of israel explained any verse or revelation. Jesus did not explain anything either. If these great men left things unexplained, you can never be the one who will expalinit to us. That responsibility falls squarely on the Comforter. My dear sister, you are not the comforter and none of the preachers of christendom is the Comforter.

Alhaji, I expected you to sound that daft, so I'm not surprised that you fulfilled that predictable line. What I don't spare is deliberate duplicity and a stubborn stupidity to reject hard facts in the face of clear pointers.

Your excuse that Jeremiah did not explain anything for your rejection of my answers is the silliest thing you could fabricate as your latest gimmick. There is no place where I ever claimed to be the Comforter; and again, I have taken you guys to another thread and bleached your duplicity on trying to make Muhammad the Comforter.

Not only so, you obviously are a stranger to simple truth - and that is why I can well bear with your deliberate attempt to claim that no prophet ever explained any verse or revelation. Please look well next time before you bruise your brains and conscience:

Nehemiah 8:8
"So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly,
and gave the sense, and caused them
to understand the reading."

Mark 4:34
"But without a parable spake he not unto them:
and when they were alone,
he expounded all things to his disciples."

Luke 24:27
"And beginning at Moses and all the prophets,
he expounded unto them in all the scriptures
the things concerning himself."

There are several verses in the Bible that deflate your assumptions here - and the reason why I have to be strong in my expression here is to call you back to what I have warned against in several ways: do not make assertions that are dishonest and pretend to be speaking the truth!

olabowale:

Surprisingly, you are confusing the Soul, in man with spirit in the Qur'an. Let me tell you; The spirit of truth or spirit in Qur'an, is Malaika Jibriil/Angel gabrael. Muhammad met him, throughout his 23 years as a prophet. I will not even go to when he was a little boy with halima, his wet nurse, in the episode where his heart was first washed and Iman/belief was put in it. You should know that Angel Gabrael wad was acquinted with Muhammad.

Please save me the hogwash! How many times did I clearly enuciate that Muhammad misconstrued the angel Gabriel (Jibril) for the Holy Spirit - when in fact no Biblical prophet ever made such a fallacious assumption? It was clear that because Muhammad had qualified himself as a false prophet by the standard of the Biblical prophets, he could not answer the simple question of the Jews as to what is the Spirit! Rather, he ducked that question, displayed his usual drama of receiving "revelation" from 'Allah', and then claimed that nobody knows about the Spirit! (see it here where I already have discussed it!).

Second, it is remarkable that while Muhammad clearly acknowledged that God spoke directly to the Biblical prophets (especially Moses), yet in Muhammad's case God did not speak to him in one instance! Rather, he claimed that it was the angel Gabriel who was the Holy Spirit that revealed the Qur'an to him! You should be asking yourself if Muhammad could have offered you anything if he was so inconsistent, so far from the knowledge of the Truth of the Biblical prophets, and yet so far from knowing what would be his later end as he declared that he did not know what 'Allah' would do to him!

Is it any wonder that even on his death bed, Muhammad's unfounded hatred burned deep within him so much so that he made several pronouncements of cursing the Jews - and yet, for all of that, none of Muhammad's threats from his fallacious phobia has come to pass!