Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? - Religion - Nairaland
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| Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 6:11pm On Mar 31, 2013 |
Good evening please, My name is...and I was a pagan by birth and a Catholic by choice. I have been doing a lot of thinking recently and most of my thoughts have been geared towards the beliefs of my brothers and sisters in the Catholic faith. Enough of the 'small talk', I have some questions I need answered please if you don't mind. I need the answers to be deeply rooted in the teachings of the Church. The questions are: 1) What does the church teach about the most holy trinity? 2) What does the church teach about the salvation of the souls of non-catholics? #Please I need every Catholic who opens this thread to contribute. "I don't know" is an acceptable answer. Thank you! |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Rich4god(m): 9:41pm On Mar 31, 2013 |
Try going through the CCC/CCD... Your answers are their. Will be back soon. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Ubenedictus(m): 2:47pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
striktlymi: Good evening please,i dont know how i missed this! I was going through page 1 of d religion section. I'll be back. Catholics believes in the trinity. As for d eternal destinies of non-catholics we believe God can save any who thru no fault of their own do not know d gospel message but seeks d truth with a sincere heart. 1 Like |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 4:33pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
Nice thread. I hope we are all not made up on what to agree on. I'm in. No insults please. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 4:37pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
This is how the cathechism of the catholic church defines the trinity doctrine. PART ONE THE PROFESSION OF FAITH SECTION TWO THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH CHAPTER ONE I BELIEVE IN GOD THE FATHER ARTICLE I "I BELIEVE IN GOD THE FATHER ALMIGHTY, CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH" Paragraph 2. The Father I. "IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT" 232 Christians are baptized "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"53 Before receiving the sacrament, they respond to a three-part question when asked to confess the Father, the Son and the Spirit: "I do." "The faith of all Christians rests on the Trinity."54 233 Christians are baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: not in their names,55 for there is only one God, the almighty Father, his only Son and the Holy Spirit: the Most Holy Trinity. 234 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them. It is the most fundamental and essential teaching in the "hierarchy of the truths of faith".56 The whole history of salvation is identical with the history of the way and the means by which the one true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, reveals himself to men "and reconciles and unites with himself those who turn away from sin".57 235 This paragraph expounds briefly (I) how the mystery of the Blessed Trinity was revealed, (II) how the Church has articulated the doctrine of the faith regarding this mystery, and (III) how, by the divine missions of the Son and the Holy Spirit, God the Father fulfills the "plan of his loving goodness" of creation, redemption and sanctification. 236 The Fathers of the Church distinguish between theology (theologia) and economy (oikonomia). "Theology" refers to the mystery of God's inmost life within the Blessed Trinity and "economy" to all the works by which God reveals himself and communicates his life. Through the oikonomia the theologia is revealed to us; but conversely, the theologia illuminates the whole oikonomia. God's works reveal who he is in himself; the mystery of his inmost being enlightens our understanding of all his works. So it is, analogously, among human persons. A person discloses himself in his actions, and the better we know a person, the better we understand his actions. 237 The Trinity is a mystery of faith in the strict sense, one of the "mysteries that are hidden in God, which can never be known unless they are revealed by God".58 To be sure, God has left traces of his Trinitarian being in his work of creation and in his Revelation throughout the Old Testament. But his inmost Being as Holy Trinity is a mystery that is inaccessible to reason alone or even to Israel's faith before the Incarnation of God's Son and the sending of the Holy Spirit. II. THE REVELATION OF GOD AS TRINITY The Father revealed by the Son 238 Many religions invoke God as "Father". The deity is often considered the "father of gods and of men". In Israel, God is called "Father" inasmuch as he is Creator of the world.59 Even more, God is Father because of the covenant and the gift of the law to Israel, "his first-born son".60 God is also called the Father of the king of Israel. Most especially he is "the Father of the poor", of the orphaned and the widowed, who are under his loving protection.61 239 By calling God "Father", the language of faith indicates two main things: that God is the first origin of everything and transcendent authority; and that he is at the same time goodness and loving care for all his children. God's parental tenderness can also be expressed by the image of motherhood,62 which emphasizes God's immanence, the intimacy between Creator and creature. The language of faith thus draws on the human experience of parents, who are in a way the first representatives of God for man. But this experience also tells us that human parents are fallible and can disfigure the face of fatherhood and motherhood. We ought therefore to recall that God transcends the human distinction between the sexes. He is neither man nor woman: he is God. He also transcends human fatherhood and motherhood, although he is their origin and standard:63 no one is father as God is Father. 240 Jesus revealed that God is Father in an unheard-of sense: he is Father not only in being Creator; he is eternally Father in relation to his only Son, who is eternally Son only in relation to his Father: "No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."64 241 For this reason the apostles confess Jesus to be the Word: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"; as "the image of the invisible God"; as the "radiance of the glory of God and the very stamp of his nature".65 242 Following this apostolic tradition, the Church confessed at the first ecumenical council at Nicaea (325) that the Son is "consubstantial" with the Father, that is, one only God with him.66 The second ecumenical council, held at Constantinople in 381, kept this expression in its formulation of the Nicene Creed and confessed "the only-begotten Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, consubstantial with the Father".67 The Father and the Son revealed by the Spirit 243 Before his Passover, Jesus announced the sending of "another Paraclete" (Advocate), the Holy Spirit. At work since creation, having previously "spoken through the prophets", the Spirit will now be with and in the disciples, to teach them and guide them "into all the truth".68 The Holy Spirit is thus revealed as another divine person with Jesus and the Father. 244 The eternal origin of the Holy Spirit is revealed in his mission in time. The Spirit is sent to the apostles and to the Church both by the Father in the name of the Son, and by the Son in person, once he had returned to the Father.69 The sending of the person of the Spirit after Jesus' glorification70 reveals in its fullness the mystery of the Holy Trinity. 245 The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of life, who proceeds from the Father."71 By this confession, the Church recognizes the Father as "the source and origin of the whole divinity".72 But the eternal origin of the Spirit is not unconnected with the Son's origin: "The Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, is God, one and equal with the Father and the Son, of the same substance and also of the same nature. . . Yet he is not called the Spirit of the Father alone,. . . but the Spirit of both the Father and the Son."73 The Creed of the Church from the Council of Constantinople confesses: "With the Father and the Son, he is worshipped and glorified."74 246 The Latin tradition of the Creed confesses that the Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son (filioque)". The Council of Florence in 1438 explains: "The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; He has his nature and subsistence at once (simul) from the Father and the Son. He proceeds eternally from both as from one principle and through one spiration. . . . And, since the Father has through generation given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, except being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son."75 247 The affirmation of the filioque does not appear in the Creed confessed in 381 at Constantinople. But Pope St. Leo I, following an ancient Latin and Alexandrian tradition, had already confessed it dogmatically in 447,76 even before Rome, in 451 at the Council of Chalcedon, came to recognize and receive the Symbol of 381. The use of this formula in the Creed was gradually admitted into the Latin liturgy (between the eighth and eleventh centuries). The introduction of the filioque into the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed by the Latin liturgy constitutes moreover, even today, a point of disagreement with the Orthodox Churches. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p2.htm |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 5:22pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
Ubenedictus: i dont know how i missed this! I was going through page 1 of d religion section. I'll be back.What makes a heart sincere? Can one who searches for God find hims outside Catholicism or even Xtianity? |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Ubenedictus(m): 6:59pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
musKeeto:my dear, i am not God who judges the heart, i can claim to have a sincere heart, but i doubt its easy to define sincere. Can one who searches for God find hims outside Catholicism or even Xtianity?other religions posses at least on truth, "there is the supernatural" and thus and serve as stepping stones for each man who wishes to find God. The desire of God is to draw man to himself, there is a quote about d glory of God is the happiness of man (i don't think d quote is exact), those religion may be the begining of the truth for many. I hope i made sense. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Dazl(f): 8:33pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
musKeeto: YES |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 9:26pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
Good evening all, Sorry I created this thread and seemingly ran away! It wasn't intentional! I have been in and out of town! Anyways, I am back now and hopefully some of you Catholic scholars are going to school me real good in the faith. @Rich thanks for the referral and I will take your advice and surf the 'site' when I have some spare time. But can you do us a favour and post some short and precise summary f what the website has for us, please. This is to help people like me who are quite 'lazy' to go outside nairaland. @Chukwudi thanks for the post, I will go through that hopefully tomorrow and probably ask some questions of my own. Don't worry, you won't have to reveal the mystery behind the most blessed trinity. @Uben thanks for dropping by and giving your thoughtful pointers. Hope to see you back soon though. @Rey, thanks for your thoughts and hope to seee your contributions soon. @Uncle Musky, I can see you have some questions too like little ol' me. @Raz thanks for the resounding "Yes"! I share in your belief too! |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 7:23am On Apr 02, 2013 |
striktlymi:For the first question, since your question is not intended to discover our thoughts, I will have to go with Chukwudi. For the second part. Sometimes in the past(I'm not good with dates) the catholic church held the notion that salvation can only be attained under its coven. But this has been reconciled long ago. Maybe we may need some history texts for clarification. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 7:34am On Apr 02, 2013 |
On a flipside, I don't think we can achieve much with these questions since most answers we are giving are from quotations. To learn here, it should be more like a discussion of the already laid down answers. Like it is my business. 1 Like |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 7:37am On Apr 02, 2013 |
Ubenedictus:I hope that, going by this statement, you may also agree that sincerity goes beyond what we claim to profess or even do. The sincerity of a heart can not be gauged by actions (for actions can be easily faked).. I'll get back to this later. Ubenedictus:Yeah, I get the general point you're trying to pass across. The problem is I've met people who left Hinduism for Christianity, then Islam, and back to Hinduism. After their sojourn, they've found peace in Hinduism. I hope I don't need to illustrate how different the Abrahamic and Hindu faiths are. Maybe, our concept of God--at least the religious ones-- are flawed. @Sir Str: Hope I'm not derailing your thread. Morning all. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 7:44am On Apr 02, 2013 |
musKeeto:Yes, you are. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 7:53am On Apr 02, 2013 |
Reyginus: Yes, you are.  craze man.. Alright, lets keep it Catholic. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 8:06am On Apr 02, 2013 |
musKeeto:Lol. Look at this mosquito! Yeah. Let's keep it simple and not stupid. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Boomark(m): 8:29am On Apr 02, 2013 |
Goodmorning Mr Str. Please can i sit at the front sit between UBE and Rey? Hope am welcomed? Unless you are looking for something already prepared and presented as truth, then i wount worry you and your church people. Kudos! You made a choice to follow Christ NOT a particular church. Goodmorning once again. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 9:06am On Apr 02, 2013 |
Boomark: Goodmorning Mr Str.You're welcome. Strictly Catholic please. I will take it upon myself to 'attack' anybody who deviates from the purpose of this thread. I mean every word. Don't tempt me. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 10:53am On Apr 02, 2013 |
Boomark: Goodmorning Mr Str. Good morning Boomark, You are most welcome to take whatever seat you want sir, even mine is available if you want it  . But be advised that Rey has his eyes on you. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 11:45am On Apr 02, 2013 |
chukwudi44: Good morning Chuks, I read through the 'article of faith' you put up there and all I can think about is the proclamation of Christ' apostles: "Didn't our hearts burn within us while he was speaking with us". It is indeed true that the more one lingers on the mystery of the most holy trinity, the more confused one gets. How can God be one and three at the same time? How can the Father be the source and origin of the blessed trinity and at the same time the Son and Holy spirit are equal to him? So many questions that defies the very core of logic and reason when we discuss the trinity; as indeed so many pillars of Christianity. I believe firmly in the 'definitions' given by the church even though I do not understand them except I see it through 'the looking glass of faith'. Thanks for the input! |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 11:51am On Apr 02, 2013 |
Hi Rey, Reyginus: My question though are basically about what the Church teaches about the most holy trinity but I won't mind knowing your thoughts on the matter. Reyginus: Please can you shed some light on the bold? Thanks! |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 11:55am On Apr 02, 2013 |
musKeeto: Uncle Musk I'd really appreciate it if you would continue with your thought process as regards the 'actions being faked' thingy. Thanks a bunch! |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Boomark(m): 12:25pm On Apr 02, 2013 |
striktlymi: Thank you sir for welcoming me. Good afternoon. I will be careful with Rey, so that no weapon of his, formed against me shall prosper. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Boomark(m): 1:07pm On Apr 02, 2013 |
striktlymi: You are not the only one that is this confuse about trinity. To some of us it will be as if God showed us part of his nature and gave us also a counter part just to confuse us. And for us not to know His true nature. Eg The Father is the God of Jesus yet Jesus is equal to his God.  The catholic church believe just as chukwudi quoted, that it is a "mystery" and no one will ever know the truth about it unless in the last day. But i still wonder if our loving God will want to confuse us this way instead of sealing it from us completely. May the church fathers help us stand in faith. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 2:09pm On Apr 02, 2013 |
Boomark: There are also several things we don't understand about God but we just believe by faith because the scripture just ask us to. Eg How did God come into existence? How long did he exist alone? How did he aquire his powers How did a virgin Mary get pregnant? All this questions defies commonreasoning but we only believe in God because the scripture so teaches. Both the father,Jesus and the holy spirit are all described as God in the bible yet the same bible claimed there is only one God.Jesus imself alluded to this in his response to Apostle philip when he asked to see the father.He said the father is in me and I in him. He who has seen me has seen my father |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Boomark(m): 4:45pm On Apr 02, 2013 |
chukwudi44: I agree with you. But when you look at the all bolded, He did not give us 2 parts of a story just to confuse His children. Whichever one is sealed from our knowledge is sealed. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Boomark(m): 4:46pm On Apr 02, 2013 |
chukwudi44: |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Ubenedictus(m): 5:03pm On Apr 02, 2013 |
striktlymi: Good evening all,thanks the thread is till calm and for me thats good, maybe i'll get the chance to add to spice. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Nobody: 5:11pm On Apr 02, 2013 |
striktlymi: Hi Rey,I'm not good at googling, but I will try in this case. I'll come in fully when the discussion is properly defined and established. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Ubenedictus(m): 7:01pm On Apr 02, 2013 |
musKeeto:amen! The sincerity of a heart isn't about your actions, it lies in the heart itself. That is why i said "i am not God" becos only God read d heart infalliably. Yeah, I get the general point you're trying to pass across. The problem is I've met people who left Hinduism for Christianity, then Islam, and back to Hinduism. After their sojourn, they've found peace in Hinduism. I hope I don't need to illustrate how different the Abrahamic and Hindu faiths are.i doubt you are derailing. I'll like to talk about the bolded. Hope u'll hear me out. I'll outline the principles, except by revelation these are true. 1. Our natural knowledge of God in this world is not an immediate, intuitive cognition, but a mediate abstractive knowledge. 2. Our knowledge of God here below is not proper but anological. 3. The nature of God is incomprehensible to mortals. (note, im willing to review and correct these points!) from above, you'll see that our natural knowledge of God is a composition of many inadquate concept, therefore it is necessaryly imperfect, it is imperfect but true, for God does posses the perfection attribute to him. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Ubenedictus(m): 7:17pm On Apr 02, 2013 |
striktlymi:really?? How does the trinity confuse you?? How can God be one and three at the same time?take note, God isn't exactly a person. GOD IS A NATURE, that is why d greek word for God isn't exactly personal, theo, can mean "diety". Thus i can say one essence in 3 persons. D above misunderstanding goes away if essence is differentiated form person. How can the Father be the source and origin of the blessed trinity and at the same time the Son and Holy spirit are equal to him?i think some organism on earth reproduce like that. I doesn't suprise me So many questions that defies the very core of logic and reason when we discuss the trinity; as indeed so many pillars of Christianity.amen, through faith. |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Ubenedictus(m): 7:23pm On Apr 02, 2013 |
Boomark:hope the bolded isn't sacasm? I don't alway appreciate it. For the above it depends on what you understand by "the father is the God of Jesus", and what you understand by "equality". |
| Re: Catholic Christians, How Much Do You Know Your Faith?? by Ubenedictus(m): 7:28pm On Apr 02, 2013 |
Boomark:the trinity doesnt have "two parts of a story to confuse us" truthfully, the knowledge of the trinity isn't different from the above questions. |
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